Russia Invades Ukraine | PUNT ROAD END | Richmond Tigers Forum
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Russia Invades Ukraine

Harry said:
Putin doesn't want Ukraine, only the Donbass region. However he wants to demilitarise Ukraine and for them to remain neutral so there's a buffer bw Russia and NATO. This is what happens when you poke the bear.
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If Putin only wanted the seperatist regions, then he could have pushed troops there (like he did with Crimea) and force an vote on their people as to who they want to be supported by, Ukraine of Russia (who knows on the validity of the voting process).

The reason he has invaded the whole of Ukraine is because Putin believes in the USSR (he has stated this repeatedly) and he believes that those countries that were part of the USSR should be under Russia direct control and influence. He blames the Ukraine on Lenin providing regional control to Ukraine which goes back a long long way in our recent history.

I was watching an interview on BBC News last night with a former CIA operative who was focused on Russia intelligence, and he said that Putin watched the Gaddafi execution on repeat. Ask yourself in the many recent conflicts there have been, who has Putin constantly sided with, those pro democracy groups in various countries, or the despots that aim to suppress and autocrate countries. Who did he support in Libya, Syria, Yemen? He has focused purely on maintaining his autocracy and any signs of dissent or pro democracy uprisings (like the Arab Spring) he wants to quash, as he is scared that similar uprisings could occur in Russia. What happens to his political opponents?

Putin is not the good guy here and I'm astounded that several on here seem to support his actions.
 
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Harry said:
Not backing anyone but it's a bit rich of the US and the West to condemn what's happening now after the invasions of Iraq and Kosovo. Where was the worldwide condemnation then?
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Did you support the war in Iraq based on lies?
 
Ridley said:
Yeah the lack of condemnation on this thread, from many left leaners, of a corrupt, brutal, murdering, despotic, fascist dictator is very surprising. Bewildering.

Anyway, I'd be very concerned if I was a citizen of Georgia, Azerbaijan, Armenia, Kazakhstan, Uzbekistan etc etc. Vlad wants the gang back together; the old Soviet Union. The Baltic states will be thanking their lucky stars that they were granted Nato membership.
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Hear hear Chimpley ! I strongly condemn this ego maniac’s actions. As I was watching him on tv yesterday I was imagining a hollow bullet going through his head and what that’d look like. It’s maybe time for the West to start landing a few proper blows on Russia and China and not these wet lettuce actions the last few years. Things are getting ( have already) out of hand. If that creates a Cold War again in the East and also with the Chinese, so be it.
 
mrposhman said:
Exactly. I also don't understand somes views. I imagine some of those that seemingly support Putins actions (with his reasoning based on lies of genocide and Nazism - the Ukraine's president is a jew by the way) didn't support the war in Iraq because it was based on lies. The hypocrisy there is astounding.

I agree on the Baltics, especially those not in NATO. There was a reason Ukraine was desperate to join NATO and that was due to Article 5 - an attack on 1 is an attack on all members - so IMO those other Baltic countries not currently in NATO will be very worried about what the future holds for their countries.
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I get the feeling a lot of it is tied to current animosity to the Australian Federal Govt and also the USA in general. If Dudmo and the Yanks denounce the Russian invasion of sovereign Ukraine territory then people just seem to take the opposite position. It's bizarre. Morrison is a terrible PM and will likely deservedly lose the election but he is not wrong in this instance. Putin is a despot, a fascist, a dictator and a murderer. It's staggering that anyone would try and justify his current course of action.

The Baltic states to which I was referring are Lithuania, Latvia and Estonia. They are all NATO members and as you say Article 5 calls for the defence of any NATO member that is attacked. I doubt Vlad would go there but it would burn him that these former Soviet states are now in NATO; a choice they made of their own free will; something that was never in abundance in the Soviet Union. But any other former Soviet republic would be very nervous at the moment.
 
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IanG said:
There's a lack of condemnation from all sides not just left leaning.
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Yes but the left leaners lack of condemnation of a fascist dictator is extremely surprising.

You'd also think the lack of condemnation from the Chinese "Communist" Party is a surprise but then they are nothing if not predictable.
 
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Redford said:
Hear hear Chimpley ! I strongly condemn this ego maniac’s actions. As I was watching him on tv yesterday I was imagining a hollow bullet going through his head and what that’d look like. It’s maybe time for the West to start landing a few proper blows on Russia and China and not these wet lettuce actions the last few years. Things are getting ( have already) out of hand. If that creates a Cold War again in the East and also with the Chinese, so be it.
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Yep someone posted earlier about a few targeted assassinations making the world a better place. Pretty obvious who should be number one on the list.

There is no doubt that Vlad and Xi view the west as weak right now are looking to capitalise.
 
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Harry said:
Not backing anyone but it's a bit rich of the US and the West to condemn what's happening now after the invasions of Iraq and Kosovo. Where was the worldwide condemnation then?
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with respect, that's just a classic 'what about ....' line,

which contributes nothing and doesnt stand up to scrutiny.

We all know the USA is the high school bully who stopped growing in year 9

But right now, theres a psycho, with 6000 nukes, invading a country

theres really no qualifications to add to any condemnation.

Of course, I respect your right to qualify.

and I also recognise there rhetoric on here that would start WW3 by sundown.

But its only a footy forum, so no harm done
 
Ridley said:
I get the feeling a lot of it is tied to current animosity to the Australian Federal Govt and also the USA in general. If Dudmo and the Yanks denounce the Russian invasion of sovereign Ukraine territory then people just seem to take the opposite position. It's bizarre. Morrison is a terrible PM and will likely deservedly lose the election but he is not wrong in this instance.
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That's a massive stretch and a very unlikely one.

I reckon it's just bad news fatigue. People have had enough of worrying and now, finally, that life might be getting back to normal, the last thing they want to do is invest emotionally in a conflict on the other side of the world.
 
Ridley said:
The Baltic states to which I was referring are Lithuania, Latvia and Estonia. They are all NATO members and as you say Article 5 calls for the defence of any NATO member that is attacked. I doubt Vlad would go there but it would burn him that these former Soviet states are now in NATO; a choice they made of their own free will; something that was never in abundance in the Soviet Union. But any other former Soviet republic would be very nervous at the moment.
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I would add Moldova to your list. Not a NATO member and controlling Ukraine, gives Russia the opportunity to down the road look to annex Moldova from Europe and back under the Russian envelope.
 
Baloo said:
That's a massive stretch and a very unlikely one.

I reckon it's just bad news fatigue. People have had enough of worrying and now, finally, that life might be getting back to normal, the last thing they want to do is invest emotionally in a conflict on the other side of the world.
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Yeah maybe. It's just hard to fathom why some who obviously hold the freedom of all in high regard seem to be trying to justify the actions of a fascist despot in invading a sovereign nation.
 
mrposhman said:
I would add Moldova to your list. Not a NATO member and controlling Ukraine, gives Russia the opportunity to down the road look to annex Moldova from Europe and back under the Russian envelope.
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I think Vlad already has a puppet government in Moldova; much like Belarus.
 
Wishful thinking on my part and I obviously could be wrong. But I don't think this particular conflict will develop into a long, drawn out escalated war, reaping massive carnage. (from a humanitarian perspective, hopefully). Put into context, despite Vlad's delusions of grandeur, Russia is not the Soviet Union. Russia has a GDP smaller than Canada's and only slightly larger than Australia's. Yes they have nuclear weapons and large quantities of obsolete equipment and military formations as a legacy of the Soviet years. But really do not have the wealth and capacity for a prolonged, high level conflict. And the Russian populace only has a certain tolerance for the body bags of their conscripted sons coming home (this was one of the factors for the Soviets losing the stomach to keep fighting in Afghanistan in the 1980s - even in a totalitarian dictatorship, losing support on the home front can effect campaigns abroad significantly) Vlad knows this, but is taking the risky, yet calculated gamble that the Ukrainians will roll over and surrender sovereignty (either partially or fully) within a week or two after some relatively low level fighting (baring in mind that in low level conflict, there are tragically, still deaths and injuries). Obviously gives those concerned with Ukrainian sovereignty no comfort, but that it's just objectively how it seems to be playing out.

NATO and the west will not get involved. They have used all of their political capital and good will over the past two decades fighting relatively pointless conflicts that they shouldn't have been involved in, hence have no desire to get involved. So I see there is little chance of it escalating on this front either.

What is a major concern of mine (as others have mentioned), is the observations of a significant spectator on the other side of the world. Namely China and their ambitions regarding Taiwan. And whether it further emboldens them in future. Such a situation is ripe for miscalculation and tragic disaster. Indeed a horrendous prospect.
 
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eZyT said:
I thought it is and it isnt.

most wars are a lot about identity (Ayrean race anyone?).

Its a pretty old idea, that Stan prosecutes as his own
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Yeah, I wasn't posting it because it was amazing, but it did give a bit of depth to another POV. I git a bit bored so tuned out a little, but I dont think Grant is justifying the invasion, but trying to explain part of Putin's reasoning. I am sure money and power are also part of his reasoning.
 
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Brodders17 said:
This might explain Harry's views:
www.vice.com

Fox News Hosts Keep Taking Putin’s Side in the War on Ukraine

Also, the whole thing is Joe Biden’s fault.
www.vice.com www.vice.com
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yep.

Zuckerberg and Murdoch are to the old divide and rule,

what Josh Gibcus will become to the old intercept mark

Chickens are coming home to roost in The West though.

you can't undermine climate science for 20 years, the expect people to believe scientists,

as you cant misinform the world about military invasions for 20 years,

and expect them to believe military reporting
 
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