Rucking Hell

[tigersnake]

Cloke was pretty good for them

he was for sure, but he was a stopgap. A long-term stopgap, but still a stopgap.

 

[tigersnake]

Wes Fellowes.

just OK

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iNBm5ZrU85g

Remember this? 'You've been dropped again Wes fellowes', to the tune of 'can you hear the drums fernando'. ;D

 

[tigersnake]

And Tom 'Polly' Derrickx was a delisted free agent.

This was a classic, and proof of how the media loves laying the boots into us. (I know, I know, the only way to stop it is to win a flag... I can take it) Derrickxxx had a couple of games for Sydney where he took a few marks and kicked a goal and generally looked like he might have a smidgeon of talent and the media started giving it to us as if we'd made the biggest trade blunder of all time. Dunstall and Healy especially. They never come out later and say 'might have gone a bit early on that...'

 

[toby64]

just OK

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iNBm5ZrU85g

Remember this? 'You've been dropped again Wes fellowes', to the tune of 'can you hear the drums fernando'. ;D

Was tongue in cheek although he did win a B&F (I think).

I remember the song....loved listening to the Coodabeens in the 1980s. Those were the days!

 

[IanG]

This is our model. But we can't execute. Our commitment to developing Vickery and Griffiths, and our perseverance with Ivan has crucified us. We should have Mumford. He was a standout. If not him Stefan Martin. There were others.

Ivan and Hamspon were poor choices in the scheme of things. But the plan is the right one IMO.

Which screams poor list management by Hartley.

 

[tigersnake]

This is our model. But we can't execute. Our commitment to developing Vickery and Griffiths, and our perseverance with Ivan has crucified us. We should have Mumford. He was a standout. If not him Stefan Martin. There were others.

Ivan and Hamspon were poor choices in the scheme of things. But the plan is the right one IMO.

Yeah it all looked OK, just OK, about 2 or 3 years ago.

Ty I'm OK with, I would have perservered and would still perservere, but would also look at the right deal

Griff, should have traded end '14 or '15. Had the currency of a mobile tall with a booming kick, still might have a bit, but not enough.

Ivan, was good for us, but looks gone.

Hampson, hasn't performed, contract was too long. It happens. I thought it was an OK move at the time, I was wrong.

 

[Dyer'ere]

This was a classic, and proof of how the media loves laying the boots into us. (I know, I know, the only way to stop it is to win a flag... I can take it) Derrickxxx had a couple of games for Sydney where he took a few marks and kicked a goal and generally looked like he might have a smidgeon of talent and the media started giving it to us as if we'd made the biggest trade blunder of all time. Dunstall and Healy especially. They never come out later and say 'might have gone a bit early on that...'

I think the media bias is based on sales, snake. Richmond fans will buy, for example, a paper full of anti Richmond propaganda. Whereas Collingwood supporters will jam the phone lines if you print anything negative about their Pies. And steal it anyway.

Which screams poor list management by Hartley.

I think it was the right idea, Ian. But NQR and poor in the execution.

We needed those players. The types. And at that time. The draft cost was low over all. But Blair picked the wrong examples.

Mumford, please. Stefan Martin. Even Sinclair would have done.


Just to clarify. The big advantage of the ruck parasite school is you spend almost your good draft choices on real footballers. (Am I biased much? ;D) None of this risky ruck *smile*. It's a part of an over all pro draft strategy. It's pro draft.

 

[Dyer'ere]

Yeah it all looked OK, just OK, about 2 or 3 years ago.

Ty I'm OK with, I would have perservered and would still perservere, but would also look at the right deal

Griff, should have traded end '14 or '15. Had the currency of a mobile tall with a booming kick, still might have a bit, but not enough.

Ivan, was good for us, but looks gone.

Hampson, hasn't performed, contract was too long. It happens. I thought it was an OK move at the time, I was wrong.

We need a strict policy of only drafting physically assertive players, snake. Particularly with the talls. We're far too committed to tall athletes for the sake of those qualities. And then we still have no aerial presence.

 

[tigersnake]

We need a strict policy of only drafting physically assertive players, snake. Particularly with the talls. We're far too committed to tall athletes for the sake of those qualities. And then we still have no aerial presence.

You'll get no argument from me on that Dyer'ere.

 

[lamb22]

We dont have a rucking problem.

Would it be great to have a tap beast who can actually play. Yep and we should target or develop one. Cholly looks a prospect for 2018.

However despite Gawn monstering Ivan clearances were 43 - 40 Melbourne's way.

Until we get a ruck beast rotate Vickery, Griff and Beanie through ruck forward and hurt them forward and hopefully in quality ball use around the ground.

 

[lamb22]

Hawks have won the last three flags.

Mcevoy, Hale and Ceglar wouldn't be in your top dozen ruckmen in the league probably not top 20.

Work on your midfield systems, your defensive and attacking structures, make a contest and hurt them the other way.

 

[tigertim]

The other model could be ascribed to Sydney. Or to Hawthorn. (Or to Richmond at times. But people get a bit more het up about us. ;D) It's the ruck parasite model.

You draft the odd ruck cheaply. And do your best. Perhaps believing that the game is primarily one of luck. But demonstrably believing that the cost of ruck development is too high.

(I am a disciple of the ruck parasite school. No draft currency ever to be spent on young rucks but it's ok to trade for experienced or draft them low. And absolutely no focus on drafting them. You take a bright prospect only at the cheapest price.)

Look at Sydney's succession of recent rucks - Everitt to Jolly. To Seaby and Mumford to Pyke to Sinclair. That is how you do it.

Mike Pyke cost them an international rookie spot. Previously Shane Mumford had cost Sydney #28 and netted them #35 in a fire sale. Seaby bombed but he cost them Aamon Buchanan and a six place downgrade on pick #22 to #28. Right school. Wrong execution. They spent on Peter Everitt but cleaned up on Darren Jolly. Ruck parasites. Let the other clubs do all the work and then pick em off. (Yes, they do a lot of other of parasiting too but with rucks they just don't invest.)

Current stocks-

Callum Sinclair cost them a player. A Lewis Jetta is worth some kind of pick between 20 and 25. Not worth quibbling about. You will pay this for an experienced AFL class ruck if you need one. (cf Shaun Hampson.)

Elite forward/ruck Kurt Tippett cost them a PSD pick but even at a hypothetical first rounder he would have been a steal.

Toby Nankervis is a cruiserweight taken #35 in the 2013 ND. That is early. Very early. And a departure from true ruck parasitism. (How's it working out for them?) Reeks of desperation. (Mumford blah blah.) They betrayed the school they perfected.

Sam Naismith was rookie-drafted. And Tom 'Polly' Derrickx was a delisted free agent. 19yo Kyle Galloway is rookie-listed.

Leaving aside the very profitable Tippett debacle Sydney's ruck parasitism is pronounced and effective.

This is our model. But we can't execute. Our commitment to developing Vickery and Griffiths, and our perseverance with Ivan has crucified us. We should have Mumford. He was a standout. If not him Stefan Martin. There were others.

Ivan and Hamspon were poor choices in the scheme of things. But the plan is the right one IMO.

Next - the shape of things to come.

Yep, I agree. But get multiple rucks, not just one!

Other than WC & Freo Think of each teams Ruckmen and the vast majority will be at their 2nd/3rd/4th club.

Port: Ryder, Lowden (Lobbe)
Crows: Jacobs
Syd: Tippett Sinclair Derrickx
Rich: Ivan, Hampson
GWS: Mumford
Bris: Martin West
GCS: Simpson Currie (Downie)
Geel: smith Stanley (Blicavs)
Coll: Grundy Witts
Melbourne: (Gawn Spencer)
North: (Goldstein Daw)
St k: Longer and Hickey
Wb: (Campbell Roughead Minson)
Essendon: Leuenberger Mckernan
Carl: Wood Phillips Gorringe (Kruezer)
Haw: Ceglar McEvoy Fitzpatrick
Wce: Giles

 

[lamb22]

Seems I was wrong Mcevoy comes in top 10 on AFL player ratings but Ivan comes in at 5. I like these rating because they measure a players influence at a contest. Positive influence get points negative influence lose points.

The figures sort of prove the point of the OP in that the really good ruckman make a difference Goldstein and NicNat come in top 7 of all players. Jacobs and Sandi inside top 21 and Gawn below but rising. Ivan comes in at 49 of all AFL players.

Other than that most other ruckman dont make a huge difference.

So Ivan will do until the shokers are totally worn.

 

[Blind Charlie]

Other than WC & Freo Think of each teams Ruckmen and the vast majority will be at their 2nd/3rd/4th club.

1st rule of recruiting a ruckman is to poach them. Let the other side waste 6-7 years of developement.

 

[evo]

This was a classic, and proof of how the media loves laying the boots into us. (I know, I know, the only way to stop it is to win a flag... I can take it) Derrickxxx had a couple of games for Sydney where he took a few marks and kicked a goal and generally looked like he might have a smidgeon of talent and the media started giving it to us as if we'd made the biggest trade blunder of all time. Dunstall and Healy especially. They never come out later and say 'might have gone a bit early on that...'

Hehe, good post.

BTW what's happened to Mike Pyke. They were always crowing about him as well.

 

[IanG]

We need a strict policy of only drafting physically assertive players, snake. Particularly with the talls.

This cannot be emphasised enough.

 

[Ridley]

BTW what's happened to Mike Pyke. They were always crowing about him as well.

He retired didn't he?

 

[Ridley]

This was a classic, and proof of how the media loves laying the boots into us. (I know, I know, the only way to stop it is to win a flag... I can take it) Derrickxxx had a couple of games for Sydney where he took a few marks and kicked a goal and generally looked like he might have a smidgeon of talent and the media started giving it to us as if we'd made the biggest trade blunder of all time. Dunstall and Healy especially. They never come out later and say 'might have gone a bit early on that...'

Derrickx. Fair dinkum. He was a complete spud. I don't care what anyone says he was single handedly responsible for what I rate as the worst RFC defeat in my memory; Gold Coast 2012.

Dropped the easiest chest mark you'd ever see from a dinky 15 metre Shane Tuck lob. In the clear, no one on him. Turnover results, GC goal. He takes that mark like any Auskicker would and we win the game; shut the door.

 

[Mr Brightside]

1st rule of recruiting a ruckman is to poach them. Let the other side waste 6-7 years of developement.

I had a look at all the teams best Rucks not long a go and very few came from a high draft pick, though the price is usually high it seems trading for a proven one is just about the safest way too go. I'd always have a young one on the rookie list.

Haven't seen him this year but Soldos numbers seem OK for his second year in the caper, long way to go but may make the grade

 

[tigersnake]

Derrickx. Fair dinkum. He was a complete spud. I don't care what anyone says he was single handedly responsible for what I rate as the worst RFC defeat in my memory; Gold Coast 2012.

Dropped the easiest chest mark you'd ever see from a dinky 15 metre Shane Tuck lob. In the clear, no one on him. Turnover results, GC goal. He takes that mark like any Auskicker would and we win the game; shut the door.

Stuart Griifiths (not being) on Bomber Thompson for me V Essendon, 1990-ish?

but yeah. My brother won a bottle of french champaign off a Sydney supporter betting he wouldn't play 50 games. Easiest bet ever?