And they didnt even play a decent Ruckman and we had 2 Premiership Rucks in FFS!!!
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Rich V Carl - Match Day Thread
- Thread starter AstuteTiger
- Start date
Gawd where does one begin.....
We have all known for a long time that our ageing, fragile mids represented the greatest risk to contend in 2022....so we keep our 2021 pick and go a tall when a quality young mid like Cerra was there for the taking. He played very well tonight. We withdrew our interest...did not go hard enough when we indeed should have IMHO. Few other observations...
- poor game day coaching and poor performance by the MC. Chopping and changing the players during the game smacked of desperation
- Umpires not at fault, lack of footy IQ and respect for the game by those wearing the RFC jumper resulted in the 50s
- Aarts and Ross are VFL standard
- Rioli is a forward and Baker's clean hands are required in the back half
- Georgie tried very, very hard
- Shorty unsighted
- Prestia as expected, brief cameo before injury
- Cotch, Jack and Shedda a shadow of their former selves.
- Hate to say it but Dusty looked merely mortal at times, not sure whether this is a physical or mental issue. Long long way from the Trac atm.
- Our rucks got smashed be a B grade journeyman, concerning
- Gibcus was thrown to the wolves
- and our skippers...mmmm
Long season ahead..next gen mids not good enough and our greats are now ageing and fragile. We need Arthur and more. Old news though...
We have all known for a long time that our ageing, fragile mids represented the greatest risk to contend in 2022....so we keep our 2021 pick and go a tall when a quality young mid like Cerra was there for the taking. He played very well tonight. We withdrew our interest...did not go hard enough when we indeed should have IMHO. Few other observations...
- poor game day coaching and poor performance by the MC. Chopping and changing the players during the game smacked of desperation
- Umpires not at fault, lack of footy IQ and respect for the game by those wearing the RFC jumper resulted in the 50s
- Aarts and Ross are VFL standard
- Rioli is a forward and Baker's clean hands are required in the back half
- Georgie tried very, very hard
- Shorty unsighted
- Prestia as expected, brief cameo before injury
- Cotch, Jack and Shedda a shadow of their former selves.
- Hate to say it but Dusty looked merely mortal at times, not sure whether this is a physical or mental issue. Long long way from the Trac atm.
- Our rucks got smashed be a B grade journeyman, concerning
- Gibcus was thrown to the wolves
- and our skippers...mmmm
Long season ahead..next gen mids not good enough and our greats are now ageing and fragile. We need Arthur and more. Old news though...
What can you say? Clearly a very disappointing start to the season, hope we can turn it around.
But let's actually have a look at the game.
In the first quarter I thought we looked pretty good. The forward line looked a lot better and there were attempts to get some separation. I liked Baker forward, don't think he is a mid, but small forward he looked fine.
One stat I always look at is the inside 50 efficiency. In the 2017 finals series we were keeping teams below 40% in terms of scoring shots from inside 50 entries. Those days are gone and the game has changed, not sure even that back line could achieve such numbers today. But Carlton had 48% inside 50 efficiency and there was enough pressure that a number of their behinds were at least partly the result of our defenders putting on pressure (but more on pressure later). Also, when you look at the inside 50 efficiency of Carlton it is comparable with what both Melbourne and Footscray did last night. So, on that score you would have to say the defence was ok. I'm not saying they are great, there is a clear need for improvement, but not failing.
Our inside 50 efficiency was 53%. That is a damned good number. I reckon a bit of luck there and I do think Balta up forward is the way to go, but not bad at all.
Some of the other stats are, frankly, a bit confusing. We won hitouts 29 to 26? Didn't look like it. Someone else posted that we lost centre clearances 14 to 12, wow, lot closer than what I thought I saw.
Clearly though the big one is the centre clearances and that is reflected in 64 to 40 inside 50s. Wow, smashed? Totally.
As everyone here has identified, our mids were slaughtered. In the last quarter I saw instances where a Richmond player would get the ball in the middle, only to lose it to a Carlton player who waltzed away with a nice clearance. I also saw tackles broken when the Carlton player got the ball. Not only did we lose the centre clearances, Carlton were able to move the ball sideways to a player in the clear and get quality delivery forward. Our centre is a mess and needs a lot of work.
One thing I notice we seem to do less than other teams is have a player run through a pack to get the contested possession. I really don't get why we don't do this as the momentum of the running player makes them harder to tackle. Must look at this more as it is just an impression, but when I see Carlton players running through packs, and also players from other teams, it can be effective.
One very revealing stat I saw on the score board, I think it was half time, was centre clearances for individual players. The first couple were Carlton players, but the next 2 were Nank and Soldo. Sorry, but when your rucks have the most centre clearances, you are in deep sh!t.
Our pressure game was simply MIA tonight. When we were at our best the opposition would fumble even when we weren't pressuring them, they just assumed the pressure was coming. Last night Melbourne were similar, Footscray players not under pressure fumbling because they thought they were under pressure. We need to get that back as we allow the opposition way too many easy disposals.
I am going to have to say I reckon Cotchin might just be done, time to retire a triple premiership captain, and in time for the mid season draft. I reckon Shedda can get back to some form, I don't think he is as beaten up as Cotch. I have to say I noticed Martin a lot less than usual tonight, he just didn't have the impact we know he is capable of. Hopefully Martin can get back to his best but he has had a tough time of late so give him time.
I would actually stick with both Soldo and Nank. Nank definitely looked off and Soldo needs more game time. I like 2 rucks. Although, I don't get why we would rest rucks forward if we are playing 3 tall forwards, rest them back instead.
I have to say I can't see that Aarts and Ross are AFL level. Aarts is clearly not a winger, KMac to replace him there and there is no other position I can see him in. Ross, try him in the middle and if it doesn't work then gone. Ross is too slow for the wing, his only potential position is as an extractor in the middle.
We need to get game time into the younger brigade. At one point I saw Gibcus and his Carlton opponent running around near the point post, bumping etc - the Carlton player simply looked massive next to Gibcus, just a much bigger build. Gibcus was fine and competed but he is not really ready for AFL yet. I would like to see them give Miller a go. There are a few younger players who need to be tried out - RCD, Dow; now is the time to give them a go and see if they will make it. Then look at the most recent recruits in Sonsie and Brown after they have a bit of VFL experience and AFL training.
So, in summary, not a good start and looked too much like we have dropped and are not coming back, but it is only Round 1.
That said, Carlton are improving. I do wonder why they have been improving at such a glacial pace for a number of years, but they are clearly getting better.
The less said about the stand rule the better, just get rid of it. Was more frustrated with our game tonight than the umpires but still not overly impressed with them. I do think the AFL need to do something about the players who crumple forward for a free kick when tackled, it is a blight on the game and needs to be stamped out. Clearly a case of needing better guidelines for the umpires on that one - not easy to solve but something needs to be done.
One last thing. Food outlets not open, all the outlets on the lower level of the Ponsford Stand (strange spot to be, but away game) closed. Queue to the bar was so long it passed another bar . . . which was closed. There is simply no excuse for this. I know they will whinge that they can't get staff, well I call b*llsh*t, offer people the work with better pay and you will get staff. Absolutely pathetic effort. The one food place I went to had most registers closed and one poor employee trying to serve everyone. Stock low, only no sugar coke, empty shelves. Simply sub standard and completely unacceptable. We pay enough to go to the footy, it simply is not good enough.
DS
But let's actually have a look at the game.
In the first quarter I thought we looked pretty good. The forward line looked a lot better and there were attempts to get some separation. I liked Baker forward, don't think he is a mid, but small forward he looked fine.
One stat I always look at is the inside 50 efficiency. In the 2017 finals series we were keeping teams below 40% in terms of scoring shots from inside 50 entries. Those days are gone and the game has changed, not sure even that back line could achieve such numbers today. But Carlton had 48% inside 50 efficiency and there was enough pressure that a number of their behinds were at least partly the result of our defenders putting on pressure (but more on pressure later). Also, when you look at the inside 50 efficiency of Carlton it is comparable with what both Melbourne and Footscray did last night. So, on that score you would have to say the defence was ok. I'm not saying they are great, there is a clear need for improvement, but not failing.
Our inside 50 efficiency was 53%. That is a damned good number. I reckon a bit of luck there and I do think Balta up forward is the way to go, but not bad at all.
Some of the other stats are, frankly, a bit confusing. We won hitouts 29 to 26? Didn't look like it. Someone else posted that we lost centre clearances 14 to 12, wow, lot closer than what I thought I saw.
Clearly though the big one is the centre clearances and that is reflected in 64 to 40 inside 50s. Wow, smashed? Totally.
As everyone here has identified, our mids were slaughtered. In the last quarter I saw instances where a Richmond player would get the ball in the middle, only to lose it to a Carlton player who waltzed away with a nice clearance. I also saw tackles broken when the Carlton player got the ball. Not only did we lose the centre clearances, Carlton were able to move the ball sideways to a player in the clear and get quality delivery forward. Our centre is a mess and needs a lot of work.
One thing I notice we seem to do less than other teams is have a player run through a pack to get the contested possession. I really don't get why we don't do this as the momentum of the running player makes them harder to tackle. Must look at this more as it is just an impression, but when I see Carlton players running through packs, and also players from other teams, it can be effective.
One very revealing stat I saw on the score board, I think it was half time, was centre clearances for individual players. The first couple were Carlton players, but the next 2 were Nank and Soldo. Sorry, but when your rucks have the most centre clearances, you are in deep sh!t.
Our pressure game was simply MIA tonight. When we were at our best the opposition would fumble even when we weren't pressuring them, they just assumed the pressure was coming. Last night Melbourne were similar, Footscray players not under pressure fumbling because they thought they were under pressure. We need to get that back as we allow the opposition way too many easy disposals.
I am going to have to say I reckon Cotchin might just be done, time to retire a triple premiership captain, and in time for the mid season draft. I reckon Shedda can get back to some form, I don't think he is as beaten up as Cotch. I have to say I noticed Martin a lot less than usual tonight, he just didn't have the impact we know he is capable of. Hopefully Martin can get back to his best but he has had a tough time of late so give him time.
I would actually stick with both Soldo and Nank. Nank definitely looked off and Soldo needs more game time. I like 2 rucks. Although, I don't get why we would rest rucks forward if we are playing 3 tall forwards, rest them back instead.
I have to say I can't see that Aarts and Ross are AFL level. Aarts is clearly not a winger, KMac to replace him there and there is no other position I can see him in. Ross, try him in the middle and if it doesn't work then gone. Ross is too slow for the wing, his only potential position is as an extractor in the middle.
We need to get game time into the younger brigade. At one point I saw Gibcus and his Carlton opponent running around near the point post, bumping etc - the Carlton player simply looked massive next to Gibcus, just a much bigger build. Gibcus was fine and competed but he is not really ready for AFL yet. I would like to see them give Miller a go. There are a few younger players who need to be tried out - RCD, Dow; now is the time to give them a go and see if they will make it. Then look at the most recent recruits in Sonsie and Brown after they have a bit of VFL experience and AFL training.
So, in summary, not a good start and looked too much like we have dropped and are not coming back, but it is only Round 1.
That said, Carlton are improving. I do wonder why they have been improving at such a glacial pace for a number of years, but they are clearly getting better.
The less said about the stand rule the better, just get rid of it. Was more frustrated with our game tonight than the umpires but still not overly impressed with them. I do think the AFL need to do something about the players who crumple forward for a free kick when tackled, it is a blight on the game and needs to be stamped out. Clearly a case of needing better guidelines for the umpires on that one - not easy to solve but something needs to be done.
One last thing. Food outlets not open, all the outlets on the lower level of the Ponsford Stand (strange spot to be, but away game) closed. Queue to the bar was so long it passed another bar . . . which was closed. There is simply no excuse for this. I know they will whinge that they can't get staff, well I call b*llsh*t, offer people the work with better pay and you will get staff. Absolutely pathetic effort. The one food place I went to had most registers closed and one poor employee trying to serve everyone. Stock low, only no sugar coke, empty shelves. Simply sub standard and completely unacceptable. We pay enough to go to the footy, it simply is not good enough.
DS
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For me, I would add in Tarrant is not the answer for an Astbury replacement. No doubt he knows the game but looks a little lost in a Tigers backline. Blood the kids and see what ambition will give
To keep the reigning Coleman medalist to 1.1 on debut in the midst of an avalanche is a fair effort in my book
I agree with your post and assessment of our problems. The one selected is my biggest gripe. I have posted the same comment on Gibcus several times. Tonight, for all his potential, at times it was like a boy against a man. Miller is built like a brick outhouse and is mobile and should be ahead of Josh and dare I say it Tarrant who for me, is a little disappointing.
I noticed at 3/4 time he went straight to a medico, pointed to his right hammy and proceeded to get a massage for almost the entire break. Played mainly forward after that.
Carlton might be a good team this year, and we won't give away 4-5 goals from bewildering free kicks and 50m penalties every week.
Also, that last quarter makes more sense knowing that Prestia and perhaps also Dusty were injured during the match. They're our 2 best mids.
Cotch is coming back from another injury, and Lambert is out. That's our 4 best mids, plus our best winger is out, and our best forward broke his thumb.
There's several genuine possibilities that could all make this game look better in hindsight if we end up flying later in the year.
We'll find out more in the coming weeks.
Also, that last quarter makes more sense knowing that Prestia and perhaps also Dusty were injured during the match. They're our 2 best mids.
Cotch is coming back from another injury, and Lambert is out. That's our 4 best mids, plus our best winger is out, and our best forward broke his thumb.
There's several genuine possibilities that could all make this game look better in hindsight if we end up flying later in the year.
We'll find out more in the coming weeks.
Shiit they have picked up anyone with a heart beat.
When was the last time we have ever had a 'Kennedy" happen at Punt Rd? On the verge of being delisted and now a vital piece to your team??
Hardwick needs to go back to basics
Start playing the players back in the right position.
Rioli forward.
Baker back pocket
Ross either in the guts or in the 2's
Castagna high half forward
Last night's game was a replica of the Collingwood game late last year.
Without Colliers Dawkins.
Start playing the players back in the right position.
Rioli forward.
Baker back pocket
Ross either in the guts or in the 2's
Castagna high half forward
Last night's game was a replica of the Collingwood game late last year.
Without Colliers Dawkins.
Yeah thought the backline was solid enough. 1 goal between McKay and Curnow - you take that. It was the midfield that was totally bent over. Slaughtered in a way I can’t remember particularly in that final term. That’s the concern - where does the improvement lie in there? Bolton and Baker will likely spend more time in there…. RCD is going to have to be given a run as a first touch clearance player… Sonsie maybe too but he probably isn’t ready…. Where’s Dow at?? Seen enough or Aarts and Ross is On ball or not at all. Concerning.
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I'm afraid the lack of a Weekly 30 plus mid who's reliable and never injured has hurt us .
In saying this the club did the right thing in not throwing longer term success away by going for youth.
Correct,told my wife ,we will loose from here as prestia at the time was our best player.
