lukeanddad said:
Using that logic , I am in my right to say I would feel offended if a player pointed a pretend spear in my direction, therefore the AFL should fine him!!!
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Re: Adam Goodes
- Thread starter iLoVeNeWmAn
- Start date
Using that logic , I am in my right to say I would feel offended if a player pointed a pretend spear in my direction, therefore the AFL should fine him!!!
joegarra said:
And perhaps the Haka frightens fans and some are intimidated by Inglis' goanna impersonation after he scores.
This topic has been dealt with 10,000 times in this thread.
If a woman makes a comment about my arse looking big, it is different to me making a comment about her arse looking big. Maybe it won't be different in 200 years, but it is what it is - today. Same for indigenous folk.
uhuh uhuh said:
What I find disheartening is that the people who boo are all being called racists. I booed Goodes because I don't like the way he plays the game now. He was not booed in the many years leading up to the last year or so. If people were racist, we would have booed Goodes before now. We would also boo Rioli, Franklin, Natanui, and Motlop. If we were racists we would drive Shane Edwards out of our club. The fact is, we do not do these things because we are not racists. We are booing Goodes the opposition player, not Goodes the indigenous person. The only problem I have with Goodes skin is not the colour but the level of thickness it is.
The other problem is that people who did not boo Goodes before will do it now because they are being told not to. People do not like this. I do not like this.
There was talk of rules being changed and free kicks being awarded to the Swans if the umpires felt the booing was too much. If this comes about, I will not go to another game.
AFL will be dead to me.
Keep politics out of footy!!!!
Chelsea said:
Thats because the time frame also corresponds to him being made AOTY and being seen to be rather outspoken whilst being AOTY. And all people who booed him are not being called racists but you are providing cover for those who are booing him for racist reasons, which is why it should stop.
lukeanddad said:
I don't like the Haka either but there's quite a significant difference when the it's aimed at the opposition team rather than being an act of aggression aimed at the supporters.
Interested to know if those who won't hear a word against Goodes, and those who are branding people they don't know as racist, think his own behaviour and actions have been any kind of influencing factor in this awful situation he finds himself in now?
Adam Goodes: why his critics' arguments just don't stack up
Not everyone who is booing Adam Goodes is a racist’
True, but of all the reserves of passion and energy you have why would you be devoting any of them to defending non-racist booers? They’re not the kind of collateral damage we should care about. There are almost certainly more worthy causes for this indignation. Non-racist booers would do well to stop and everyone else would do well to avoid defending them, because they engage in this activity knowing that they’re providing a cover for racists, which is in many ways worse.
If you’re booing Adam Goodes on purely football grounds – which seems a bit suss to me but I’ll go with it for the sake of the debate – surely there’s a place in football fandom for basic human empathy and guilt. One day we’ll have to admit to our kids and grandkids that yes, we did indeed see this magnificent footballer play his 370 games, win his two Brownlow Medals, two premierships, four All-Australian jumpers and the Australian of the Year award, and in return for the joy he brought us all we could do was boo him into retirement.
This is about history. It’s about a worryingly high amount of the so-called lovers of a sport getting together and heckling one of its great champions to the finishing line because (insert tenous reason here). A lot of football fans don’t like Goodes because he had the temerity to stand up for his people and ask questions that could make their country a better place, questions that make some people feel uncomfortable. The fans of other sporting codes are watching this, laughing at and maybe pitying AFL supporters. Everyone wears this shame.
‘But the reason I boo him is because he’s a filthy sniper. Have you seen the things he does out there? Just a dirty player.’
In answer to this I’ll first direct you to YouTube to investigate the career of Leigh Matthews, once voted the greatest player in the history of the game and through less official channels, often spoken of as the filthiest. As indisputably great as he was, Matthews was so ludicrously physical that police watching the famous Neville Bruns incident charged him with assault causing grievous bodily harm. At other times he’d step on players’ fingers as they rose from the mud, he’d knee them, clothes-line them and he’d belt them clean in the jaw while they were looking the other way.
Why do I mention this? Because Matthews is part of the brutally rough and often violent lineage of the game. You know, before it became sanitised and over-officiated and the league still proudly endorsed videos entitled “Biffs, Bumps and Brawlers Volume 2”. Actually, they still do that. To say that as exulted a champion of the game as Matthews was dirtier than Goodes is like saying that Jimmy Page played his guitar louder than José Feliciano.
In the time between Matthews and Goodes we’ve seen a procession of far dirtier players than the latter, ones who were never unduly booed and whose reputation as players remains undiminished as a result. And now? Brownlow medal favourite Nat Fyfe is a rougher player than Goodes. Jarrad Waite’s boot studs are more dangerous than either. Between the pair of them, Dustin Fletcher and Brent Harvey have more dirty tricks at their disposal than the rest of the league’s players combined.
But unlike Goodes, Fletcher and Harvey are not being howled at and abused by thousands of people every time they go near the ball, not even Harvey, who’s not the most likable footballer on earth. Like Goodes, what Fletcher and Harvey now lack in explosive athleticism they’ve quite ably covered with street smarts; the odd well-timed shove in the back or sneaky trip that umpires miss. They know where umpires are placed and they’re better at anticipating the movements of opponents. In most sports that kind of veteran nous is celebrated.
You’d also have to wonder what the Venn diagram overlap is between people who want footy to return to the “good old days” when men were men and poleaxed each other in the name of sport, and those who are earnestly trying to convince themselves that Goodes even sits in the top 1,000 dirty players in the game’s history.
‘But Wayne Carey and Stephen Milne got booed just as bad as this’
Do we really have to break down the reasons for this? We do? Sheesh, OK. First, Carey was only booed to a comparable – but certainly not the same – degree as Goodes in the immediate aftermath of his departure from North Melbourne, which came about after an affair with the wife of one of his closest team-mates and friends; a team-mate who was a revered figure at the club. All of us who watched Carey live in his prime can tell you he wasn’t being booed like this. Anyone who says Carey was treated like Goodes is now is either grossly exaggerating or simply wasn’t there.
As for Milne, the criminal allegations that followed him through most of his career were a complicated, multi-layered issue that fans responded to in ways that were at once predictable and deeply strange. But stepping back from it and no matter what your take was at the time or now, what you had was a footballer taking the field every week under the public suspicion of having committed a crime. What crime has Goodes been accused of? To conflate the two situations is not only a red herring, but also deeply offensive.
‘If you tell people not to do something, they’ll go out of their way to do it’
OK, we’re now also waiting for your spirited defence of drink-drivers. After all, they’re told on an almost nauseating basis that they shouldn’t do it but it doesn’t give them a free pass to go drunkenly lane-swerving across freeways because doing so would make them anti-authoritarian larrikins. This approach just excuses people from acting stupidly, giving in to base impulses and doing away with basic human dignity.
‘The Goodes war dance was violent and threatening’
Are you huddled under blankets when the All Blacks perform the Haka? Do hip hop music videos make you soil yourself and collapse? Were you in the habit of calling 000 and reporting mass murder every time Gabriel Batistuta “machine-gunned” the crowd after a scoring a goal? Did you think the Liam Neeson movie Taken was a documentary about a lunatic running around the world snapping people’s necks? Perhaps it’s time to consider the fact that you might actually be an adult-sized baby.
The Goodes goal celebration was the most interesting and symbolic event to occur on a football field this year, a celebration of a culture all Australians could do better to embrace and understand. It might prove to be the most important football moment of the decade, a Winmar moment if you will. That the reaction of so many football fans was not one of curiosity and perhaps a little self-examination but one of childish name-calling and petulant booing will reflect poorly on all of us when the pages on Goodes are written into the game’s history
http://www.theguardian.com/sport/blog/2015/jul/28/adam-goodes-why-his-critics-arguments-just-dont-stack-up
Not everyone who is booing Adam Goodes is a racist’
True, but of all the reserves of passion and energy you have why would you be devoting any of them to defending non-racist booers? They’re not the kind of collateral damage we should care about. There are almost certainly more worthy causes for this indignation. Non-racist booers would do well to stop and everyone else would do well to avoid defending them, because they engage in this activity knowing that they’re providing a cover for racists, which is in many ways worse.
If you’re booing Adam Goodes on purely football grounds – which seems a bit suss to me but I’ll go with it for the sake of the debate – surely there’s a place in football fandom for basic human empathy and guilt. One day we’ll have to admit to our kids and grandkids that yes, we did indeed see this magnificent footballer play his 370 games, win his two Brownlow Medals, two premierships, four All-Australian jumpers and the Australian of the Year award, and in return for the joy he brought us all we could do was boo him into retirement.
This is about history. It’s about a worryingly high amount of the so-called lovers of a sport getting together and heckling one of its great champions to the finishing line because (insert tenous reason here). A lot of football fans don’t like Goodes because he had the temerity to stand up for his people and ask questions that could make their country a better place, questions that make some people feel uncomfortable. The fans of other sporting codes are watching this, laughing at and maybe pitying AFL supporters. Everyone wears this shame.
‘But the reason I boo him is because he’s a filthy sniper. Have you seen the things he does out there? Just a dirty player.’
In answer to this I’ll first direct you to YouTube to investigate the career of Leigh Matthews, once voted the greatest player in the history of the game and through less official channels, often spoken of as the filthiest. As indisputably great as he was, Matthews was so ludicrously physical that police watching the famous Neville Bruns incident charged him with assault causing grievous bodily harm. At other times he’d step on players’ fingers as they rose from the mud, he’d knee them, clothes-line them and he’d belt them clean in the jaw while they were looking the other way.
Why do I mention this? Because Matthews is part of the brutally rough and often violent lineage of the game. You know, before it became sanitised and over-officiated and the league still proudly endorsed videos entitled “Biffs, Bumps and Brawlers Volume 2”. Actually, they still do that. To say that as exulted a champion of the game as Matthews was dirtier than Goodes is like saying that Jimmy Page played his guitar louder than José Feliciano.
In the time between Matthews and Goodes we’ve seen a procession of far dirtier players than the latter, ones who were never unduly booed and whose reputation as players remains undiminished as a result. And now? Brownlow medal favourite Nat Fyfe is a rougher player than Goodes. Jarrad Waite’s boot studs are more dangerous than either. Between the pair of them, Dustin Fletcher and Brent Harvey have more dirty tricks at their disposal than the rest of the league’s players combined.
But unlike Goodes, Fletcher and Harvey are not being howled at and abused by thousands of people every time they go near the ball, not even Harvey, who’s not the most likable footballer on earth. Like Goodes, what Fletcher and Harvey now lack in explosive athleticism they’ve quite ably covered with street smarts; the odd well-timed shove in the back or sneaky trip that umpires miss. They know where umpires are placed and they’re better at anticipating the movements of opponents. In most sports that kind of veteran nous is celebrated.
You’d also have to wonder what the Venn diagram overlap is between people who want footy to return to the “good old days” when men were men and poleaxed each other in the name of sport, and those who are earnestly trying to convince themselves that Goodes even sits in the top 1,000 dirty players in the game’s history.
‘But Wayne Carey and Stephen Milne got booed just as bad as this’
Do we really have to break down the reasons for this? We do? Sheesh, OK. First, Carey was only booed to a comparable – but certainly not the same – degree as Goodes in the immediate aftermath of his departure from North Melbourne, which came about after an affair with the wife of one of his closest team-mates and friends; a team-mate who was a revered figure at the club. All of us who watched Carey live in his prime can tell you he wasn’t being booed like this. Anyone who says Carey was treated like Goodes is now is either grossly exaggerating or simply wasn’t there.
As for Milne, the criminal allegations that followed him through most of his career were a complicated, multi-layered issue that fans responded to in ways that were at once predictable and deeply strange. But stepping back from it and no matter what your take was at the time or now, what you had was a footballer taking the field every week under the public suspicion of having committed a crime. What crime has Goodes been accused of? To conflate the two situations is not only a red herring, but also deeply offensive.
‘If you tell people not to do something, they’ll go out of their way to do it’
OK, we’re now also waiting for your spirited defence of drink-drivers. After all, they’re told on an almost nauseating basis that they shouldn’t do it but it doesn’t give them a free pass to go drunkenly lane-swerving across freeways because doing so would make them anti-authoritarian larrikins. This approach just excuses people from acting stupidly, giving in to base impulses and doing away with basic human dignity.
‘The Goodes war dance was violent and threatening’
Are you huddled under blankets when the All Blacks perform the Haka? Do hip hop music videos make you soil yourself and collapse? Were you in the habit of calling 000 and reporting mass murder every time Gabriel Batistuta “machine-gunned” the crowd after a scoring a goal? Did you think the Liam Neeson movie Taken was a documentary about a lunatic running around the world snapping people’s necks? Perhaps it’s time to consider the fact that you might actually be an adult-sized baby.
The Goodes goal celebration was the most interesting and symbolic event to occur on a football field this year, a celebration of a culture all Australians could do better to embrace and understand. It might prove to be the most important football moment of the decade, a Winmar moment if you will. That the reaction of so many football fans was not one of curiosity and perhaps a little self-examination but one of childish name-calling and petulant booing will reflect poorly on all of us when the pages on Goodes are written into the game’s history
http://www.theguardian.com/sport/blog/2015/jul/28/adam-goodes-why-his-critics-arguments-just-dont-stack-up
So Goodesy's pulling the pin on the weekend and attempting to shame the public re his imminent retirement. Should use the opportunity to appear on a few footy programs and let the public get to know him better. Unless he really is adversarial by nature, it'd do more to change perceptions for the better than what he's been doing.
New York Tiger said:
How many have claimed they boo Goodes because he's a filthy sniper? I dislike him because I think he's a sook and stages for frees. I dislike him because I think he gets a better deal than some from the umpires because of it. Leigh Matthews is totally irrelevant to why I feel the way I do about Adam Goodes. Red herrings indeed.
New York Tiger said:
Unlike Goodes those players haven't chosen to make their career as a footballer a political stage. They haven't made an art form of confronting supporters.
New York Tiger said:
I haven't noticed anyone make a claim for Goodes being in the top 1000 dirtiest players. Even if they have I doubt it's a large or highly relevant factor in his present situation.
New York Tiger said:
Goodes wasn't booed like this in his prime either. The author makes a moral judgement in regards to Carey. Carey didn't make it personal by playing it out through the media and having a crack at the supporters like Goodes has. Has anyone actually put a case forward that Carey was treated like Goodes or is the author plucking rabbits out of a hat to plump up a weak article?
New York Tiger said:
The Haka is done towards the opposition team. Goodes aimed his angry actions straight at opposition supporters. He said he wouldn't do it to one of his own race. Hip hops and movies are experienced by choice. Goodes' actions were forced upon people. Yet again a Goodes defender stooping to labeling and/or insulting others. Why the need for it? It certainly doesn't strengthen an argument.
New York Tiger said:
Nothing like Nicky Winmar. He showed pride in his heritage without threatening or abusing other people. I didn't see Goodes effort as a celebration of culture. Obviously a lot of others didn't either. How can pretending to spear people in anger possibly be a positive? Quite barbaric.
Ordinary article but I guess it does what it's supposed to by helping pay the author's bills.
A article with a negative view of Goodes. Alan Jones take on the person & personality. He does not like him one bit.
http://www.theage.com.au/afl/sydney-swans/swans-star-adam-goodes-always-plays-the-victim-alan-jones-20150729-gimmn3
Megan Levy
Published: July 29, 2015 - 11:33AM
Radio shock jock Alan Jones has delivered a scathing assessment of Sydney Swans star Adam Goodes on national television, saying the champion footballer always "plays the victim" and needs to change his behaviour if he wants crowds to stop booing him at AFL games.
The 2GB presenter claimed crowds were reacting negatively to the 35-year-old because they simply didn't like his behaviour, including his "spear throwing and the running in and doing a war dance and so on and provoking people".
Jones insisted crowds had not forgotten when Goodes "humiliated" a 13-year-old girl who was in the crowd of an AFL match in 2013. The teenager was escorted from the MCG after calling Goodes an ape. She later apologised and claimed she did not know the word was a racist slur.
"You know, the man is always a victim," Jones railed on Channel Seven's Sunrise on Wednesday morning.
"Then he became Australian of the Year and tells us that we're all racists. Every time he speaks, Australia is a racist nation.
"I mean, there are 71 Indigenous players. They are in rugby league, they are in rugby union. They are everywhere. They're playing tennis, and people don't boo them. They're booing Adam Goodes because they don't like him and they don't like his behaviour."
Jones had been asked for his opinion after it was revealed Goodes was considering retiring due to the negative influence the booing at games was starting to have on his teammates.
Goodes copped another torrent of abuse from a hostile away crowd on Sunday during the Swans' match against West Coast at Domain Stadium. One person in the crowd allegedly yelled at Goodes to "get back to the zoo".
Goodes' teammate Lewis Jetta performed an Indigenous war dance and threw an imaginary spear at a section of the West Coast crowd in support of his friend.
Jones said the talk of retirement was "typical Adam Goodes".
"They [the booing crowds] just don't like the fellow. And Adam Goodes can fix all this by changing his behaviour. But what's he say today? 'Oh, I'm going to leave. I may have to resign. I can't hack it.'
"Ask the little 13-year-old girl how she handled that. She was paraded over the national media as a person who really had to apologise. She wrote a letter and apologised. I mean, the poor little thing, 13 years of age, disabled mother. I mean, give me a break.
"The bloke's a rich Australian athlete. He humiliated a 13-year-old girl who didn't even know what she was saying, and the public haven't forgotten it. Someone's got to ask the question: why are they booing Adam Goodes and not the other 70 Indigenous AFL players? Adam Goodes can fix this by changing his behaviour. He again today plays the victim."
Sunrise co-presenter David Koch said crowds had a right to boo or applaud players, but not when it crossed the line into racial abuse.
He said the crowd member's zoo insult was racist and ridiculous.
"He wouldn't say that to a white man. He wouldn't say to a white guy get back to the zoo," Koch said.
Goodes did not train on Tuesday and has been given two days off.
Swans coach John Longmire said there was no expectation on Goodes, a dual Brownlow medallist, to declare his availability for the round 18 match against Adelaide at the SCG on Saturday.
http://www.theage.com.au/afl/sydney-swans/swans-star-adam-goodes-always-plays-the-victim-alan-jones-20150729-gimmn3
Megan Levy
Published: July 29, 2015 - 11:33AM
Radio shock jock Alan Jones has delivered a scathing assessment of Sydney Swans star Adam Goodes on national television, saying the champion footballer always "plays the victim" and needs to change his behaviour if he wants crowds to stop booing him at AFL games.
The 2GB presenter claimed crowds were reacting negatively to the 35-year-old because they simply didn't like his behaviour, including his "spear throwing and the running in and doing a war dance and so on and provoking people".
Jones insisted crowds had not forgotten when Goodes "humiliated" a 13-year-old girl who was in the crowd of an AFL match in 2013. The teenager was escorted from the MCG after calling Goodes an ape. She later apologised and claimed she did not know the word was a racist slur.
"You know, the man is always a victim," Jones railed on Channel Seven's Sunrise on Wednesday morning.
"Then he became Australian of the Year and tells us that we're all racists. Every time he speaks, Australia is a racist nation.
"I mean, there are 71 Indigenous players. They are in rugby league, they are in rugby union. They are everywhere. They're playing tennis, and people don't boo them. They're booing Adam Goodes because they don't like him and they don't like his behaviour."
Jones had been asked for his opinion after it was revealed Goodes was considering retiring due to the negative influence the booing at games was starting to have on his teammates.
Goodes copped another torrent of abuse from a hostile away crowd on Sunday during the Swans' match against West Coast at Domain Stadium. One person in the crowd allegedly yelled at Goodes to "get back to the zoo".
Goodes' teammate Lewis Jetta performed an Indigenous war dance and threw an imaginary spear at a section of the West Coast crowd in support of his friend.
Jones said the talk of retirement was "typical Adam Goodes".
"They [the booing crowds] just don't like the fellow. And Adam Goodes can fix all this by changing his behaviour. But what's he say today? 'Oh, I'm going to leave. I may have to resign. I can't hack it.'
"Ask the little 13-year-old girl how she handled that. She was paraded over the national media as a person who really had to apologise. She wrote a letter and apologised. I mean, the poor little thing, 13 years of age, disabled mother. I mean, give me a break.
"The bloke's a rich Australian athlete. He humiliated a 13-year-old girl who didn't even know what she was saying, and the public haven't forgotten it. Someone's got to ask the question: why are they booing Adam Goodes and not the other 70 Indigenous AFL players? Adam Goodes can fix this by changing his behaviour. He again today plays the victim."
Sunrise co-presenter David Koch said crowds had a right to boo or applaud players, but not when it crossed the line into racial abuse.
He said the crowd member's zoo insult was racist and ridiculous.
"He wouldn't say that to a white man. He wouldn't say to a white guy get back to the zoo," Koch said.
Goodes did not train on Tuesday and has been given two days off.
Swans coach John Longmire said there was no expectation on Goodes, a dual Brownlow medallist, to declare his availability for the round 18 match against Adelaide at the SCG on Saturday.
This wasn't necessarily addressed to you Rosy, but it has obviously hit a nerve. IMO it serves a better purpose than most of the drivel written from the other end of the spectrum.
New York Tiger said:
I didn't for one second think it was addressed to me NY. It hasn't hit a nerve at all. I think it's an ordinary article with irrelevant things thrown in to pad it out. Feel free to point out where you disagree with me rather than judging me.
I'm over Adam Goodes now. Seriously, taking time out of the game and letting down his team when they are trying to hang on to their place in the top 4? Really? Talk about it all being about him!
Even if this is all about race (and I do not accept it is), I wonder if Adam Goodes realises that his being booed at the footy isn't the worst thing happening to Indigenous Australians at the moment. Maybe he can spend his week off touring the Northern Territory and looking at the real disgrace happening in this country when it comes to his race. If he really does think this is about race, he has missed an opportunity to deflect this onto a conversation this nation should be having about the living standards of Aborigines in remote communities. But then that wouldn't be about him, would it.
Even if this is all about race (and I do not accept it is), I wonder if Adam Goodes realises that his being booed at the footy isn't the worst thing happening to Indigenous Australians at the moment. Maybe he can spend his week off touring the Northern Territory and looking at the real disgrace happening in this country when it comes to his race. If he really does think this is about race, he has missed an opportunity to deflect this onto a conversation this nation should be having about the living standards of Aborigines in remote communities. But then that wouldn't be about him, would it.
Al Bundy said:
well there you go. argument over. you know if Alan Jones takes a side it is going to be the wrong one.
answer me this - we are now being told that Goodes considers the booing racist, therefore we should stop booing him. I am all for that as I don't want to be labelled a racist, or encourage racists if I boo him for any other reason. So, hypothetically, if Goodes cleans up Cotchin in a final with an illegal head high hit, am I allowed to boo then??? And if the AFL is happy for Jetta pointing a pretend spear at opposition supporters, then they should have no issue with supporters pointing pretend guns back at him!!! I fully appreciate that racism and bullying is about how it affects the person not the intent of the person making the comments or the gesture. Therefore the offender needs to apologise and act differently. Consistency needs to apply here. Goodes clearly upset supporters when he ran at them with a pretend spear - security descended on the area. Therefore he has to accept that whatever his intent was, the supporters found it offensive, so it shouldn't be done again. Everyone - supporters, AFL, Goodes and jetta have to take a deep breath and move on.
Just like the long drawn out Essendon drug saga, AFL media spends way too much time talking about the negatives associated with the game sadly, I listen to Mick an Chrisso an then SEN most days an so much of the talk now is just about Goodes , teams struggling and Essendon....so much good AFL stuff to discuss an we just go round and round with the negatives
