Re: Adam Goodes

[KnightersRevenge]

Plenty of racists in Australia. Most are not overtly racist or are more ignorant than racist.

But that's true of most countries, not just Aus.

If I'm only racist when I am with my mates and feel comfortable or when I've got a skinful but I never show it to my work colleagues or my mother-in-law, am I still racist? IMO we naturally tend towards labelling each other either internally or externally as "one of us" or "other". "Others" are not to be trusted. They tend to be whingers and have thin skins and like to play the victim. They can't take a joke. They're the shirkers, the leaners, always looking for a hand out. Our own are never like that.

 

[Chimptastic]

Disagree with most of that. Especially that paragraph about the spear/dance. Goodes never accused anyone of being ignorant, he simply challenged people to educate themselves about things that they no nothing about. And the bit about Goodes loving to look down on white Australians with disgust????

This post is a perfect example of the attitudes that exist that are being challenged.

These underlying emotional responses to a complex issue is precisely my point. In order to distance yourself from this group called 'racist' and having your self-identity threatened, you've accused a good person of being racist. You're being hurtful out of fear.

Critical thinking on complex issues is a perfect example of how to move forward, as this type of thinking in the 1920's for example would lead to campaigning against overt, intentional racism and refusing to accept the way things are.

Adam has repeatedly said he's "ashamed to be Australian", casting a wide net over the Australian people.

Adam Goodes has made a habit of hyper-generalising unintended possibly subconscious racist acts by small numbers of people to the wider Australian public and implicitly frames it in a similar context to past atrocities. I honestly don't know one racist person under 50 years of age and I'm in my mid-20's. Adam needs to embrace the public rather than repeatedly accusing the wider nation of being bad people. That's why he gets booed.

 

[fastin bulbous]

Thanks for your answer. What I was getting at is a seeming preoccupation with the symbolic rather than the practical. What do you think is the one thing that Australia can do that would benefit Aboriginals the most? Or did you answer that question above?

Sorry ltrtr, not I tending to dodge you.

My answer is simple. There are around 250 distinct language groups and not one people in indigenous Australia. Rosalie Kunoth-Monks said it perfectly on q and a last year -' I am not an aborigine, I am an arrente woman'. I do consider that generic and contrived 'war dance' to be a big joke, but that's just me. It's all about governance is my answer. Paternal top down decision making simply does not work. I continue to be surprised at the number of white people who continue to maintain that aboriginal people are not qualified to make decisions for themselves. I am dealing with a situation right now where a board is being sidestepped by a manager with that idea. I support self determination through good governance rather than imposing 'the answers' on people. The aboriginal corporations model provides a good platform for sustainable economic development and control if used properly.

 

[Baloo]

I think the war dance is contrived as I think the Kiwi and other pacific isles Haka before matches are contrived, but no skin off my noce. If they want to do it and the crowd enjoys it, then why not.

FWIW, here is the best All Blacks Haka EVER !

[youtube]emJyEa4z2Ec[/youtube]

 

[Jason King]

I think the war dance is contrived as I think the Kiwi and other pacific isles Haka before matches are contrived, but no skin off my noce. If they want to do it and the crowd enjoys it, then why not.

FWIW, here is the best All Blacks Haka EVER !

[youtube]emJyEa4z2Ec[/youtube]

The first comment;

Nobody will convince me this isn't just a Monty Python sketch.

That made my day :rofl

 

[1eyedtiger]

All I have to say is that it's okay for Adam Goodes to pull out the 'racism' card anytime he is criticized (booed or otherwise) so I have no qualms in claiming everything he does and says is racially motivated.

No different to Julia Gillard pulling out the 'sexist' card whenever anyone dared to criticize her. Of course, nothing she said or did was sexist.

Whatever. Tell someone who cares. I just wish the media would limit their reporting of it to a couple of lines on some obscure page that few people read.

 

[Brodders17]

All I have to say is that it's okay for Adam Goodes to pull out the 'racism' card anytime he is criticized (booed or otherwise) so I have no qualms in claiming everything he does and says is racially motivated.

No different to Julia Gillard pulling out the 'sexist' card whenever anyone dared to criticize her. Of course, nothing she said or did was sexist.

Whatever. Tell someone who cares. I just wish the media would limit their reporting of it to a couple of lines on some obscure page that few people read.

i havent read a heap about the dance but has Goodes claimed racism booing?
he called someone out for calling him an ape. imo it is reasonable to thing that was racially motivated. he called McGuire out for caliing him King Kong, that was probably more stupidity than racist.

as for Gillard that was plenty of evidence of sexism in the behaviour of Abbott and buffoons like Jones. i also cannot recall her claiming every criticism was sexism. i think you are exaggerating or just wrong on that one.

as for your last line. i probably agree. there are race issues in this country and more discussion around them would be beneficial, but i am not sure that having the conversation led by controversy about a 'war dance' by Goodes is the best way forward.

 

[Brodders17]

Sorry ltrtr, not I tending to dodge you.

My answer is simple. There are around 250 distinct language groups and not one people in indigenous Australia. Rosalie Kunoth-Monks said it perfectly on q and a last year -' I am not an aborigine, I am an arrente woman'. I do consider that generic and contrived 'war dance' to be a big joke, but that's just me. It's all about governance is my answer. Paternal top down decision making simply does not work. I continue to be surprised at the number of white people who continue to maintain that aboriginal people are not qualified to make decisions for themselves. I am dealing with a situation right now where a board is being sidestepped by a manager with that idea. I support self determination through good governance rather than imposing 'the answers' on people. The aboriginal corporations model provides a good platform for sustainable economic development and control if used properly.

disagree the answer is simple. but i do agree with the theory. the practice is sometimes very different though.
as you say white bosses of indigenous organisations often run them with little regard for the board. on occasion they are corrupt. on some occasions the board is complicit in both these issues.
one very real issue i think is whether there is the level of intelligence required on boards. to be on a board of organisation usually requires a speciality or expertise. for some boards the main area of expertise of some, not all, members is that are indigenous. they may not understand legislation, policies etc, but are asked to give direction to multi-million $$$$ organisations. in some cases this is why white ceos can get away with stuff.

supporting kids to get an education is imo the only way things will really change. there is more and more work being done in the area of scholarships etc. while this means kids often have to travel away from their community, i think there are benefits than negatives to this.

 

[Rosy]

........
he called someone out for calling him an ape. imo it is reasonable to thing that was racially motivated. he called McGuire out for caliing him King Kong, that was probably more stupidity than racist.

..........

I think more the opposite. It's perfectly feasible to me the 13yo girl wasn't aware of the difference in calling an aboriginal an ape compared to calling a white person one. She at least deserved the benefit of the doubt and spoken to privately rather than being publicly humiliated imo. There's no doubt though that Eddie knew the connotations when he said it soon after the furore though. Hardly a word from Goodes about Eddie saying it though, compared to his public belittling of the girl. Why wasn't Eddie singled out as a face of rasism? Maybe Adam is a bit of a flat track bully and picks his targets. It was discussed on ABC radio the other night whether Adam was racist (or reverse racist) himself. An example was his comments about Yarran and the war dance aimed at the opposition. Food for thought. Adam appears very bitter and condemning of white Australia.

 

[1eyedtiger]

Hi Brodders,
I've decided to check my facts. You're right, it wasn't Goodes who questioned the intent of the Hawthorn supporters who booed him the other week. He claimed he doesn't know why. Fair enough. It seems it's the media who are pushing this line in order to sell papers. However, when you call out someone as being racist for making a comment (The ape saga), then you go and perform a war dance in front of opposition supporters, well it wasn't very smart of him, certainly doesn't make me think any better of him and criticism is justified, regardless of the intent. Would it be racist of me to say that he dances like an ape?

I'm not sure about the Gillard thing. I know she made the accusation at least once and that Tony Abbott was subjected to a lot of criticism for supposedly being a misogynist for a long time following. I guess it could have been once again the media pushing this line just to sell papers.

It confirms my recent thoughts regarding the media in this country and that's that it should be reporting the facts and keep the opinions out of it. Of course then most newspapers would only be a couple of pages long and the web sites would download in no time.

 

[IanG]

I think more the opposite. It's perfectly feasible to me the 13yo girl wasn't aware of the difference in calling an aboriginal an ape compared to calling a white person one. She at least deserved the benefit of the doubt and spoken to privately rather than being publicly humiliated imo. There's no doubt though that Eddie knew the connotations when he said it soon after the furore though. Hardly a word from Goodes about Eddie saying it though, compared to his public belittling of the girl.

IIRC he wasn't aware of the girls age when he initially made an issue of it.

 

[LeeToRainesToRoach]

IIRC he wasn't aware of the girls age when he initially made an issue of it.

Obviously he couldn't have known her age initially and his reaction was understandable. Afterwards however he played it for all it was worth... "Racism has a face. It's a 13yo girl."

I suspect people get in his ear at times.

 

[KnightersRevenge]

Geez I know plenty of racists. I had to drop a mate (and a Tiger) off facebook last year because I was sick of the racist crap (and he is under 50). I can't help but agree with Waleed Aly that there is a level of "getting above your station" about the reaction to Goodes and Gerard Wateley that the "anti-staging" booers provide cover for the "racist" booers. Would love an expert sound engineer to analyse the crowd noise before and after the Australian of the Year nod. If the booing has increased (as I suspect it has) I can't see how you could argue that it isn't racially motivated?

I can't believe people are still bleating about the thing with the girl. What she said was appalling. That is the simple fact. She DID say it. It IS racist. That is the point, not the kid. Goodes' reaction was both spontaneous and spot on. When the offender was identified it should have been a wake up call to everyone around her of just how disgusting their behaviour has been and that it absolutely pollutes the minds of impressionable kids to the point where it they feel justified in doing what she did. They should have been ashamed and they should have been the focus, not the kid. That doesn't make her a pariah, it makes her a sentinal for all who think it is harmless fun to use that kind of taunt in front of kids or that it is a small problem.

 

[AMPS]

Geez I know plenty of racists. I had to drop a mate (and a Tiger) off facebook last year because I was sick of the racist crap (and he is under 50). I can't help but agree with Waleed Aly that there is a level of "getting above your station" about the reaction to Goodes and Gerard Wateley that the "anti-staging" booers provide cover for the "racist" booers. Would love an expert sound engineer to analyse the crowd noise before and after the Australian of the Year nod. If the booing has increased (as I suspect it has) I can't see how you could argue that it isn't racially motivated?

I can't believe people are still bleating about the thing with the girl. What she said was appalling. That is the simple fact. She DID say it. It IS racist. That is the point, not the kid. Goodes' reaction was both spontaneous and spot on. When the offender was identified it should have been a wake up call to everyone around her of just how disgusting their behaviour has been and that it absolutely pollutes the minds of impressionable kids to the point where it they feel justified in doing what she did. They should have been ashamed and they should have been the focus, not the kid. That doesn't make her a pariah, it makes her a sentinal for all who think it is harmless fun to use that kind of taunt in front of kids or that it is a small problem.

Spot on. It's not that difficult to understand is it?

I don't think the main motivation of Goodes is to make white Australia to feel guilty they're being asked to think.

 

[Tigers of Old]

Geez I know plenty of racists. I had to drop a mate (and a Tiger) off facebook last year because I was sick of the racist crap (and he is under 50). I can't help but agree with Waleed Aly that there is a level of "getting above your station" about the reaction to Goodes and Gerard Wateley that the "anti-staging" booers provide cover for the "racist" booers. Would love an expert sound engineer to analyse the crowd noise before and after the Australian of the Year nod. If the booing has increased (as I suspect it has) I can't see how you could argue that it isn't racially motivated?

I can't believe people are still bleating about the thing with the girl. What she said was appalling. That is the simple fact. She DID say it. It IS racist. That is the point, not the kid. Goodes' reaction was both spontaneous and spot on. When the offender was identified it should have been a wake up call to everyone around her of just how disgusting their behaviour has been and that it absolutely pollutes the minds of impressionable kids to the point where it they feel justified in doing what she did. They should have been ashamed and they should have been the focus, not the kid. That doesn't make her a pariah, it makes her a sentinal for all who think it is harmless fun to use that kind of taunt in front of kids or that it is a small problem.

Agree with everything you say. There are a heap of racist white Australians and though not in all cases, much of what Goodes is facing is racially motivated.
Joel Selwood has been milking free kicks for years and is lauded a champion, not booed, so I don't buy that bulldust.
I also agree too that teenager did the wrong thing. Damn straight she should have been called out on it.
No this backlash towards Adam is mostly about race, no doubt about it IMO.

 

[AMPS]

These underlying emotional responses to a complex issue is precisely my point. In order to distance yourself from this group called 'racist' and having your self-identity threatened, you've accused a good person of being racist. You're being hurtful out of fear.

Critical thinking on complex issues is a perfect example of how to move forward, as this type of thinking in the 1920's for example would lead to campaigning against overt, intentional racism and refusing to accept the way things are.

Adam has repeatedly said he's "ashamed to be Australian", casting a wide net over the Australian people.

Adam Goodes has made a habit of hyper-generalising unintended possibly subconscious racist acts by small numbers of people to the wider Australian public and implicitly frames it in a similar context to past atrocities. I honestly don't know one racist person under 50 years of age and I'm in my mid-20's. Adam needs to embrace the public rather than repeatedly accusing the wider nation of being bad people. That's why he gets booed.

I've got no idea if that is directed at me or what it means?

 

[LeeToRainesToRoach]

I can't believe people are still bleating about the thing with the girl. What she said was appalling. That is the simple fact. She DID say it. It IS racist. That is the point, not the kid. Goodes' reaction was both spontaneous and spot on. When the offender was identified it should have been a wake up call to everyone around her of just how disgusting their behaviour has been and that it absolutely pollutes the minds of impressionable kids to the point where it they feel justified in doing what she did. They should have been ashamed and they should have been the focus, not the kid. That doesn't make her a pariah, it makes her a sentinal for all who think it is harmless fun to use that kind of taunt in front of kids or that it is a small problem.

Have you often heard Australians calling black people "apes", though? There's no history of it here that I'm aware of, and it's been banished from popular culture, so it's very possible IMO that the girl didn't understand the connotations. I understand them because I'm older and lived through Love Thy Neighbour etc. But she was a 13yo from a rural area. If she'd said "f... b... ape", OK, she's no innocent. However she stated in a written apology (which Goodes publicly accepted) that she didn't know it was offensive. As I said, Goodes' reaction was perfectly understandable, but the following day he continued to milk it.

Anyway as you say this is old news, and hardly Goodes' biggest crime.

 

[IanG]

Obviously he couldn't have known her age initially and his reaction was understandable. Afterwards however he played it for all it was worth... "Racism has a face. It's a 13yo girl."

Did Goodes actually say that?

 

[Tigers of Old]

Did Goodes actually say that?

Yes he did but he also urged support for the girl. Read below..
http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/adam-goodes-gutted-after-13-year-old-girls-racial-slur-who-called-the-sydney-champion-today-to-apologise/story-fni5fan7-1226650256245

 

[Tiger Rob]

No this backlash towards Adam is mostly about race, no doubt about it IMO.

I think there is way too much putting people in boxes because they dont agree with your opinion ( a general comment, not necessarily aimed at you ToO).

I have a very mixed heritage. I have mates and relatives from pretty much all over the globe, of all races.

I'm not a fan of Adam and personally didnt much like the war dance, but dont you dare call me racist for that opinion.