Re: Adam Goodes

[Tigers of Old]

Some people on this site seem to think it’s fine to use the term ape or monkey and Adam Goodes should get over himself. If it is fine to use those terms is it also fine to call him boong or nigger?

So long as you don't really mean it then it's ok evidently.

He would be more shocked that it came from a 13-year-old than from some thick-necked boneheaded dullard who is never going to change his opinion.

Yup. That's what he's said and you have to take him on face value for it.
Goodes has been up to his eyeballs in pressing to eradicate racism from the AFL, no doubt he was absolutely shocked to hear that language from over the fence on a night that means clearly a great deal to him and other indigenous players.

 

[Leysy Days]

I don't know why people feel the need bring up Adam's reactions to previous insults.
Do they ever consider that this incident no matter how big or small by comparison, could have been the straw that broke the camel's back?
No doubt Goodes's sensitivities would have been higher during indigenous round.
If he felt vilified then I respect that given where he has come from to achieve such greatness as a person and in his sport. The ultimate role model for any young person.
I have nothing but respect for him and what he has achieved and it saddens me enormously that others think that in the heat of battle that he has tried to hijack this as some political football in the bid to stamp out racism. More likely he was just genuinely shocked that a racial slur could come over the fence from a young kid no less during the indigenous round.
Goodes is the victim here amazes me some try to paint him as the villain.

Leysy's with you wholeheartedly ToO. On the highlighted, Adam has also said he's wished he'd spoken up about comments before but didn't have the courage nor confidence to do so.

Dont want to get involved on this thread, but don't understand all the criticism of Goodes on here. Not one bit. If you haven't walked in his shoes how can anyone comment on how he should/shouldnt react. :-\

 

[Tygrys]

Leysy's with you wholeheartedly ToO. On the highlighted, Adam has also said he's wished he'd spoken up about comments before but didn't have the courage nor confidence to do so.

Yes but he didn't have the courage or confidence to call out grown men, but a 13 year old girl, who didn't even say anything that the vast majority of fair minded people would have even considered racist, yeah this hero grew an extra set of you know what. That's why this will never be a Nicky Winmar moment, this is what will always ruin the myth and the iconic value of his image pointing into the crowd, the fact that this 30 plus man singled out a child. A shame that...

 

[LeeToRainesToRoach]

Haven't had much of an issue with Goodes' role until now, but threatening to miss a game because of emotional distress is stretching the limits of public goodwill. Come down off that soapbox, Adam.

 

[Tigers of Old]

Haven't had much of an issue with Goodes' role until now, but threatening to miss a game because of emotional distress is stretching the limits of public goodwill. Come down off that soapbox, Adam.

Has he 'threatened' to miss the game? Must have missed that quote.

 

[KnightersRevenge]

Yes but he didn't have the courage or confidence to call out grown men, but a 13 year old girl, who didn't even say anything that the vast majority of fair minded people would have even considered racist, yeah this hero grew an extra set of you know what. That's why this will never be a Nicky Winmar moment, this is what will always ruin the myth and the iconic value of his image pointing into the crowd, the fact that this 30 plus man singled out a child. A shame that...

Wow. Just wow. People who think calling a black man an ape doesn't have significance are neither fair nor minded. Goodes didn't call out a little girl he called out a racist who happened very disappointingly to be a young white girl. He didn't size her up and then choose to make a grand gesture. He reacted instantly to what he heard as is very obvious from the video. Looking for scape goats is the worst thing to do here. Leave that for the Bolts and Hadleys of this world. Call it what it was, a racist slur shouted at an indigenous man. Then hope that she and any like her learn a lesson about it. Then move on.

 

[martyshire]

Wow. Just wow. People who think calling a black man an ape doesn't have significance are neither fair nor minded. Goodes didn't call out a little girl he called out a racist who happened very disappointingly to be a young white girl. He didn't size her up and then choose to make a grand gesture. He reacted instantly to what he heard as is very obvious from the video. Looking for scape goats is the worst thing to do here. Leave that for the Bolts and Hadleys of this world. Call it what it was, a racist slur shouted at an indigenous man. Then hope that she and any like her learn a lesson about it. Then move on.

+1

 

[Rosy]

Goodes didn't call out a little girl he called out a racist who happened very disappointingly to be a young white girl.

How do you know the girl is racist? Even Adam said she didn't know what she was saying. Her comment could have racist connotations without doubt but we don't know that she knew that or intended it in that light. He did in fact call out a young girl. He has discussed that himself.

 

[KnightersRevenge]

I understand the history but I don't understand the purpose of your question. Why should that make a difference or affect what's considered socially acceptable behaviour now? Aboriginals might never have wielded power but to me that doesn't make abuse towards others acceptable. It disappoints me that certain behaviours are condoned/swept under the carpet from some and not others. It only widens the gap if it's tolerated from anyone. Sadly I think it makes the task all the harder and seem more futile.

As I've said before when there's one set of rules for some, and another set for others, things will always be decisive. We can't change that past, and we don't have to ignore it, but we can all work towards a better future.

The question was rhetorical Rosy. History matters. It is the years of discrimination that make the difference. It puts the bite into it. If you've been on the wrong end of it, and by that I mean you were the minority (not for a day or at that moment but for a lifetime) then you get it. Yes tolerance on all sides would be nice. But there is definitely a difference between a white Australian being racially taunted by an Aborigine and the reverse. Two evenly matched groups with similar opportunities and incomes and life expectancies and infant mortality rates and disease rates can slag each other freely. But until then I maintain there is a difference.

I agree completely that respectable behaviour in public without exception should be the goal but I would hope that we could agree that the way forward isn't likely to come from saying "they were doing it too".

 

[KnightersRevenge]

How do you know the girl is racist? Even Adam said she didn't know what she was saying. Her comment could have racist connotations without doubt but we don't know that she knew that or intended it in that light. He did in fact call out a young girl. He has discussed that himself.

Oh for goodness sake. Did I mention her intentions? Let's drop the nuance and make it very clear? It is a racist slur to call a black man an ape. Surely you agree with that statement?

 

[LeeToRainesToRoach]

Has he 'threatened' to miss the game? Must have missed that quote.

It's been mooted. Why make it public if not to bleed the issue a little more?

Anyway I'm done with it. McGuire and O'Brien have had their moment in the sun, and Goodes has received his apologies which he chooses to accept, or he doesn't.

 

[Rosy]

Oh for goodness sake. Did I mention her intentions? Let's drop the nuance and make it very clear? It is a racist slur to call a black man an ape. Surely agree with that statement?

For goodness sake nothing. It's not nice to label someone as a racist unless there is pretty clear evidence that it's the case. It's an awful accusation to make about anyone let alone a 13yo girl. It's a very offensive term.

Yes ape can be a racist slur for sure. There is no indication the girl knew that or intended her sledge in that light. Adam Goodes seems to think she wasn't aware of the connotations. He said she was uneducated, was just name calling and wasn't aware how name calling could make others feel. How that earns her a tag as a racist baffles me. I can't see from what we know about this situation, by any definition of the term, why she deserves to be labelled that way.

 

[Liverpool]

Then there are the comics that make race the base of their humour. Nick Giannopoulos built a career out of the “Wogs out of Work” series of plays, shows and spin off movies, leading to many Greeks and Italians that I know reclaim the word “WOG” in the same way African Americans reclaimed the word “Nigger” through rap and popular culture.

But does this make it OK for anyone to use those words?

If its o.k for some people to use that word towards them, then its clear that its not the word that is derogatory...but who (or what race of person) that says it.

If thats the case, then who is the racist?
The person who chooses to use that word?
Or the person who picks and chooses when they are offended by that word, depending on the colour of the skin of the person who said it?

 

[TigerForce]

Anyway I'm done with it. McGuire and O'Brien have had their moment in the sun, and Goodes has received his apologies which he chooses to accept, or he doesn't.

Aren't we all. I'm sure the Footy Show will carry it on tonight. If Goodes is still feeling down after this, I wonder if he felt down all other times he copped abuse.

The girl's mother was on the news and she said exactly what this has become publicly: GONE TOO FAR!

We will back next season with another issue like this.....

 

[KnightersRevenge]

For goodness sake nothing. It's not nice to label someone as a racist unless there is pretty clear evidence that it's the case. It's an awful accusation to make about anyone let alone a 13yo girl. It's a very offensive term.

Yes ape can be a racist slur for sure. There is no indication the girl knew that or intended her sledge in that light. Adam Goodes seems to think she wasn't aware of the connotations. He said she was uneducated, was just name calling and wasn't aware how name calling could make others feel. How that earns her a tag as a racist baffles me. I can't see from what we know about this situation, by any definition of the term, why she deserves to be labelled that way.

At the precise moment that Goodes reacted he couldn't have known who his abuser was. At that exact moment he reacted to a racist taunt. That is what I was saying. Later perhaps only seconds later he realised it was a young girl. Hearing is your fastest sense, your body reacts well before you realise what is happening. In that context her intentions don't matter. I am not a journalist nor an editor. I don't control the front page. I haven't tagged her anything. I am just part of a discussion on a web forum where people seem to be looking for excuses or down-playing the seriousness of racism. I can't see how that helps move us towards a better society.

 

[brigadiertiger]

Oh for goodness sake. Did I mention her intentions? Let's drop the nuance and make it very clear? It is a racist slur to call a black man an ape. Surely you agree with that statement?

So once again despite Adam Goodes saying the girl had no racist intent with her comment means she is a racist. Smile me the pc brigade is just ridiculous.

I love how she was racist but Eddie just had a slip of the tongue. Eddie does plenty of work for indigenous people so he didn't meaqn it hell peadophiles in the scouts did some good work for some kids so I guess that also excuses them :

 

[Leysy Days]

Yes but he didn't have the courage or confidence to call out grown men, but a 13 year old girl, who didn't even say anything that the vast majority of fair minded people would have even considered racist, yeah this hero grew an extra set of you know what. That's why this will never be a Nicky Winmar moment, this is what will always ruin the myth and the iconic value of his image pointing into the crowd, the fact that this 30 plus man singled out a child. A shame that...

And that is why leysy didn't want to get involved.

 

[KnightersRevenge]

So once again despite Adam Goodes saying the girl had no racist intent with her comment means she is a racist. Smile me the pc brigade is just ridiculous.

I love how she was racist but Eddie just had a slip of the tongue. Eddie does plenty of work for indigenous people so he didn't meaqn it hell peadophiles in the scouts did some good work for some kids so I guess that also excuses them :

If there is double talk and double standards at play here they are in the media. It is columnists, editors, presenters and commentators playing it for what it is worth. My opinion would be that McGuire's effort was far worse.

 

[cmarkidis]

Oh for goodness sake. Did I mention her intentions? Let's drop the nuance and make it very clear? It is a racist slur to call a black man an ape. Surely you agree with that statement?

No I don't. I've seen men of European and middle eastern backgrounds with more hair on their bodies than most have on their heads. Is calling them an ape a racist slur? I'd say it's more of a personal slur. How many red heads are called Rangas? Where does that come from? No inferiority complex from red heads as far as I know.

Where do you want to draw the line on discrimination? Racial is only 1 aspect. Sure we'd be better off without it, but wake up pal it's been happening since the dawn of time and will continue as long as there is religious differences and personal differences. The best way we can eliminate racial discrimination is for each individual person to strive to be a good person. This transcends everything else. I'd sooner stand by a good Asian friend than a pathetic white (or any other colour for that matter) person.

How about we discuss economic discrimination? Look at the declining purchasing power of the average wage over the last 30 years. Is this form of discrimination acceptable. Look at the plight of the working poor. Let's talk about the educational discrimination staring us in the face. The poor state of our public schooling system is forcing many to spend $20k+ per annum to give 1 child a decent education. Not to mention the fact we provide university places (to the detriment of our people) to overseas students who then bugger off overseas with degree in hand. Real smart. Is this discrimination acceptable?

No discrimination should be acceptable. But things need to be put in perspective. No country in the western world recognises and appeases its indigenous minority more so than Australia. I know, I come from a minority group living in a current European country. No recognition there pal, just soldier on.

For me, Goodes' actions were disgraceful. You don't have to agree, nor do I with you. There are far greater problems in society than what Goodes encountered. Who was there to support the young lass? I've raised 3 daughters and know how fragile a 13 yo girls mind is; but we all feel so sorry for Goodes. I have lost all respect for him. And for the rest of the fools running this plastic sport called AFL. Let me tell you, it's this type of conditioning that is trying to have us accept 2 blokes getting married. Your kidding?? Never will I support this decay on society. Call me a homophobe if you want, my view is my view full stop.

 

[KnightersRevenge]

No I don't. I've seen men of European and middle eastern backgrounds with more hair on their bodies than most have on their heads. Is calling them an ape a racist slur? I'd say it's more of a personal slur. How many red heads are called Rangas? Where does that come from? No inferiority complex from red heads as far as I know.

Where do you want to draw the line on discrimination? Racial is only 1 aspect. Sure we'd be better off without it, but wake up pal it's been happening since the dawn of time and will continue as long as there is religious differences and personal differences. The best way we can eliminate racial discrimination is for each individual person to strive to be a good person. This transcends everything else. I'd sooner stand by a good Asian friend than a pathetic white (or any other colour for that matter) person.

How about we discuss economic discrimination? Look at the declining purchasing power of the average wage over the last 30 years. Is this form of discrimination acceptable. Look at the plight of the working poor. Let's talk about the educational discrimination staring us in the face. The poor state of our public schooling system is forcing many to spend $20k+ per annum to give 1 child a decent education. Not to mention the fact we provide university places (to the detriment of our people) to overseas students who then bugger off overseas with degree in hand. Real smart. Is this discrimination acceptable?

No discrimination should be acceptable. But things need to be put in perspective. No country in the western world recognises and appeases its indigenous minority more so than Australia. I know, I come from a minority group living in a current European country. No recognition there pal, just soldier on.

For me, Goodes' actions were disgraceful. You don't have to agree, nor do I with you. There are far greater problems in society than what Goodes encountered. Who was there to support the young lass? I've raised 3 daughters and know how fragile a 13 yo girls mind is; but we all feel so sorry for Goodes. I have lost all respect for him. And for the rest of the fools running this plastic sport called AFL. Let me tell you, it's this type of conditioning that is trying to have us accept 2 blokes getting married. Your kidding?? Never will I support this decay on society. Call me a homophobe if you want, my view is my view full stop.

Excellent rant. Not sure how you linked "declining purchasing power" to racism to homophobia - those two so often go together though don't they? Intolerance I suppose. Same as I have said plenty of times. It is the discrimination that makes the insult burn harder and longer. When you are a member of an ethnic group that have been decimated by people of a different ethnic background then any reference to it is very demeaning. More so than it might seem to you. There is no historical beating down and murdering and child stealing and land grabbing and rape associated with "rangas". Hence while it can be hurtful to a child it isn't equal to a racial taunt to someone whose not too distant history is dotted with these abuses. And reference to monkeys and apes is particularly significant for blacks in many countries. It was often used to keep them in their place and to make sure they understood they were "sub-human". It is not a small thing. Goodes did exactly the right thing and it is disgraceful to try to demonise him for taking a stand against racism - not a stand against the girl mind you - but racism itself.