Re: Adam Goodes

[MG]

FWIW this sums up my feeling.

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/eddie-mcguire-slipped-up-thats-all-i-reckon-he-is-fair-dinkum-and-sincere/story-fni5f6hd-1226653336813


More than a few people have used this to give Eddie a whack. IMO it's not the example to be used to expose underlying racism in Australia. Recent events on public transport do a better job of that.

No doubt Adam Goodes would be angry that he has had to deal with this issue again but it's his choice to either accept McGuire's apology and move on, or not.

 

[IanG]

The girl that called Goode's an ape was in the wrong, but certainly didn't deserve what she copped, hopefully she learns from it though and doesn't do it again, if she does than she deserves what she cops. If it was an adult then throw the book at them but a 13 probably doesn't comprehend what the ramifications are of using such language. The most disappointing thing about her is she was at the footy with adults (presuming family members) and they let her get carted out of the G by herself, if that was my child / family member / friend Id be walking out hand in hand, might tell us something about the upbringing. Now to Goode's, if he gets that upset by being called a name by a 13yr old girl to carry on the way he did, he might have some issues himself. I don't blame him for being annoyed or upset by the comment but to say he couldn't stay on the ground and to carry on the way he did , to me its a bit rich.

Who are we to tell Goodes how he should react?

 

[puregreen]

On an occasion like the Indigenous round on the MCG, further heightened by being the 20th anniversary of Nicky Winmar's stance, ironically also against Collingwood, I can understand how something that seems to us not to be offensive can cut through all the noise of the crowd and rattle someone to a point where they can't concentrate on the game and need to leave it.

I mean Goodes played a blinder, he's the sort of player that makes you scroll through the drafting the year he got picked and wonder how it was we couldn't have picked him up.

Not only would he have copped the name calling at school, but his brother as well and before that would have been his parents and before them his grandparents. There's a lot of history that's built up behind any indigenous player and unfortunately it's flowed through from one generation to the next.

We've come a long way in 20 years, but there is still a lot of work to do and Richmond are trying to bridge the gap in their own way by running footy camps in the outback and also with the Institute at Punt road.

 

[ARCHYBOY]

Who are we to tell Goodes how he should react?

You are 100% correct, I am in no position to tell people how to react in different situations. Personally I would've handled the situation differently which is why I think it was an overreaction.

 

[tigergollywog]

[Deleted.]

 

[Tigers of Old]

As former Tiger Brad Miller said on twitter if nothing else good has come out of this episode it's that parents are talking to their kids about racism. That can only be a good thing.
I've certainly discussed it with mine this week where I probably haven't felt the need to previously. No matter your perspective it's good that these issues are being raised.

 

[KnightersRevenge]

As do anglo-Australians. Unlike some others I don't think racism is acceptable no matter who it is directed from or to. I find the double standards quite disappointing. I wish everyone could treat others with respect regardless of their skin colour or heritage.

That is a fair sentiment but IMO misses the mark by a decent margin. People get abused all the time but what makes abuse of certain ethnic groups particularly hurtful is its link to discrimination. That is why I don't see a double standard. Whities have very rarely been on the wrong end of that one and never to my knowledge at the hands of the indigenous Australians. Abuse perhaps but discrimination requires power. At what point in Australian history have Aboriginies weilded power?

As to the scape-goating of the girl the media have done a pretty well rehearsed 1-2 shuffle. They put her on the front page now they are crying foul. I'd suggest they drop the righteous indignation and point the poison pen at each other and save the vitriol for their collegues.

 

[Rosy]

That is a fair sentiment but IMO misses the mark by a decent margin. People get abused all the time but what makes abuse of certain ethnic groups particularly hurtful is its link to discrimination. That is why I don't see a double standard. Whities have very rarely been on the wrong end of that one and never to my knowledge at the hands of the indigenous Australians. Abuse perhaps but discrimination requires power. At what point in Australian history have Aboriginies weilded power?

I understand the history but I don't understand the purpose of your question. Why should that make a difference or affect what's considered socially acceptable behaviour now? Aboriginals might never have wielded power but to me that doesn't make abuse towards others acceptable. It disappoints me that certain behaviours are condoned/swept under the carpet from some and not others. It only widens the gap if it's tolerated from anyone. Sadly I think it makes the task all the harder and seem more futile.

As I've said before when there's one set of rules for some, and another set for others, things will always be decisive. We can't change that past, and we don't have to ignore it, but we can all work towards a better future.

 

[Tigers of Old]

As I see it there are 3 separate arguments here that basically suggest.

1) Those subjected to racism should 'harden up' no matter who you are.

2) Racism is not acceptable from anyone.

3) Racism is ok for some races but not others depending on who's got the power.

Personally I lean towards no.2 but note that race on the receiving end for generations are more more likely to feel vilified than those who's race has historically been in control. This still IMO does not condone reverse racist behaviours.

 

[Rosy]

Personally I lean towards no.2 but note that race on the receiving end for generations are more more likely to feel vilified than those who's race has historically been in control. This still IMO does not condone reverse racist behaviours.

Ditto.

 

[Tigaman]

I have a gutful of this Do Goodes/Maguire crock so am going to take some action. First order of the day have banned the Missus from watching Maguire's Millionaire Hot Seat 5.30pm program. Second order of the day is that I will refrain from watching any TV game Do Goodes & Maguire's rabble participate in except of course when Tigers are on the paddock trashing them.

 

[Rosy]

Adam claimed he's been called the similar names by players on the field. No obvious reaction or stand taken.

A 13yo calls him a name that she might or might not be aware could have racial connotations. All hell breaks loose.

Eddie's comments were far worse than the girls given the recent episode, his involvement in it, and him being far more mature and worldy. Nothing much said by Adam.

I wonder why he hasn't spoken out or treated others like he treated the girl? I wonder if she was an opportunistic chance to take a stand with. Not someone he'd mix company with professionally or socially. I'd have more respect for a stand made in regard to Eddie McGuire.

 

[Liverpool]

I think some posters on here are realising how difficult it is to push for equality when you have groups wanting equality too, but advocating anything but.

Goodes admitted that this was not the first time he had been called "ape" yet he did nothing previously, and chose Indigenous round, at the MCG on a Friday night in front of a national audience, against Collingwood, on the anniversary of Winmar's stand.
It seemed very coincidental to me.

Anyways, Eddie's comment are no different to the young girl's...are both racists?
No.

Were they racist remarks?
No, I don't think so. Both comments were aimed at Goodes' appearance, not his race. He could have been Italian, Nigerian, Pakistani, a Maori...and he still would have received these comments. His race didn't come into it. His race wasn't persecuted, his appearance was though.
No different to Harry O'Brien calling Hawkins a "fat *smile* " ...Cameron Ling a 'ranga' (short for orangutan), or Dunstall a silverback gorilla. All based on their appearance, not their race.
The fact that people have taken these remarks against Goodes as racial slurs makes me wonder who the racists are then? :-\

Would they say those comments again?
No, I don't think so, purely because they didn't know Goodes would react this way. Obviously he has chosen to take it personally...another non-white might laugh it off (one of the Aborigines I work with would laugh it off and have a crack back at me with something).
So if the girl and McGuire could go back in time, they would not have said those things, not because they have been told its racist, but because they said something derogatory about a person's appearance and they were offended by it.
However, you don't know the reaction of someone until after you have said it...and history says Goodes has not been offended in the past by such words but chooses now to be offended.
How were the girl or McGuire to know that?

People just need to respect each other, regardless of race.
Equality is what it is all about and if people can take a joke if they are Irish, a redhead, a fat guy, a blonde...then to be included, non-whites need to stop playing the racial abuse card and just live life and have a laugh as well and give a bit back.
If that happened and people wree more inclusive of each other then it would break down racism. It would also highlight genuine racism more, not this sort of petty stuff.

 

[tigerdave]

Ed can pick up the 13 year old on their way to counselling.

 

[uhuh uhuh]

OK

Let me put this event out there for comment.

I was on the tram on the way home the other night. Not packed but all the seats were taken and a few people standing.

I was sitting next to the window. Sitting next to me was a pregnant Asian women and opposite me were two middle aged women of (I am guessing) southern European descent.

At one stop an older Caucasian woman got on to the train (again I am guessing, she was over 60) she had a cane and I immediately offered her my seat.

The woman accepted my offer, I got up, the pregnant Asian woman slid into where I was sitting and the old woman sat down.

Then the old women looked up at me and said “thank you, I was hoping someone would offer me a seat” and then she turned to face front and said in a voice loud enough for everyone to hear “Asians are so rude”.

And then she turned to face me and smiled.

 

[uhuh uhuh]

My assumptions were that she had some kind of bad experience or pre conceived ideas about race and she immediately thought because I am the same colour as her I would share her views.

I felt a mix of anger and embarrassment. Anger with myself because I didn’t say anything, I mean the woman was old and I was truly lost for words. I really wanted to say sorry to the pregnant woman. Walking home I wondered how often small events like this occur and how it must feel to the person hearing this.

Why did the old woman say it so loudly?

What did the Asian woman think or feel? Is it possible she could laugh it off and think something like “Hahaha you Australians, always making comments and jokes at our expense”

More to the point, why did the old woman automatically seem to think I would share her views?

I have a friend from South Africa, she is white and very much not a racist. She chose Australia to live for the simple reason she met and married an Australian. They live a happy life her, but the thing that drives her mad is the preconceived ideas all us Aussies have about her as a white South African.

This happens in two ways: she either gets the cold shoulder from the vehement anti racism crowd that automatically blame her for apartheid and I have sat a table in a restaurant where one of the people at the table has verbally attacked her for being a white South African, which again left me embarrassed and angry.

At the same time there are many white Australians that immediately start trying to confide in her their feelings about race in Australia, some of which are akin to the policies of the Nazi party of Hitler’s Germany.

Is calling Adam Goodes a monkey racism – yes because much like the stories above, in the connotation that he has been called an ape or monkey in the past he will immediately smallness and humiliation that he felt when the kids called him those names in school.

 

[Tigers of Old]

I don't know why people feel the need bring up Adam's reactions to previous insults.
Do they ever consider that this incident no matter how big or small by comparison, could have been the straw that broke the camel's back?
No doubt Goodes's sensitivities would have been higher during indigenous round.
If he felt vilified then I respect that given where he has come from to achieve such greatness as a person and in his sport. The ultimate role model for any young person.
I have nothing but respect for him and what he has achieved and it saddens me enormously that others think that in the heat of battle that he has tried to hijack this as some political football in the bid to stamp out racism. More likely he was just genuinely shocked that a racial slur could come over the fence from a young kid no less during the indigenous round.
Goodes is the victim here amazes me some try to paint him as the villain.

 

[cmarkidis]

The best part about this whole ridiculous saga is the 2 who instigated and ramped this issue beyond total perspective are the 2 that have ended up the fall guys. Serves them both right. Goodes is a fool. A 2 metre man on close to $1M a year took advantage of a non-situation. Poor little girl whose comment was obviously a spur-of-the-moment off-the-cuff comment, and this "man" goes in the foetal position. Harden-up princess!! The young lass was marched off by the gestapo as though she had committed a capital offence. And this, mind you, without any evidence other than a finger point from a fool.

Then along comes Mr Self-Righteous himself and ramps it up beyond any reason. Standing on his high horse preaching the moral ground. Another fool. How moral were the lies Shaw and Didak pedalled Eddie?? Quickly changed your mind there. Hypocrite!! But, alas, once a fool always a fool. Mr Self-Righteous proved that to all and sundry.

Now, for me, the issue becomes to what extent is the AFL a boys club. A young lass was crucified because she was unable to defend herself. Didn't have the media contacts. She was expendable. Watching Eddie try to justify himself made me sick. Using his contacts in the media and AFL to save his neck. Make no mistake, the only thing on Eddie's mind is to save his neck. If he was a man of principle he would resign now. For good. Demitiou and his cohorts were quick to hang Matt Rendell over something far less significant. Labelling him a racist, when in fact his sole purpose was to help the indigenous player. Your reputation is also at stake now, Demitiou, lets see if you apply the same principle, the precedent has been set.

I watch with interest, because this will prove whether the AFL is a code worthy of my continued following. I will always support through memberships the club I love, but as for turning up on a weekly basis, that will be determined very soon. Footy's nothing like it was when I was growing up, and, unfortunately, its the worse for it.

 

[uhuh uhuh]

Then there are the comics that make race the base of their humour. Nick Giannopoulos built a career out of the “Wogs out of Work” series of plays, shows and spin off movies, leading to many Greeks and Italians that I know reclaim the word “WOG” in the same way African Americans reclaimed the word “Nigger” through rap and popular culture.

But does this make it OK for anyone to use those words?

Some people on this site seem to think it’s fine to use the term ape or monkey and Adam Goodes should get over himself. If it is fine to use those terms is it also fine to call him boong or nigger?

 

[Ready]

Do they ever consider that this incident no matter how big or small by comparison, could have been the straw that broke the camel's back?

He would be more shocked that it came from a 13-year-old than from some thick-necked boneheaded dullard who is never going to change his opinion.

And to Tiger12: Goodes is in the public eye, he is right to take a stand because when it happens to the poor kid from Alice Springs who walks into the wrong shop, that kid has no voice at all!