Palestine and Israel

[Willo]

I wouldn’t be surprised if a nuke or two landed in Iran sometime in the near future.
Maybe in Houthi Yemen as well.
When will the UN grow some balls and enforce its Security Council Resolution 1701.

 

[Harry]

I wouldn’t be surprised if a nuke or two landed in Iran sometime in the near future.
Maybe in Houthi Yemen as well.
When will the UN grow some balls and enforce its Security Council Resolution 1701.

What do you expect countries like Iran Syria Yemen and Lebanon etc. to do? Allow the colonisers and the West dictate the 'global order' in their own backyard? They won't sit quiet forever. You'll find the US is the world's biggest terrorist organisation who have waged illegal wars either directly or via proxy on numerous countries around the world killing millions of innocent people, expanding NATO up to Russia's border and surrounding China with over 400 military bases like a noose around it's neck. Should we lob a few nukes into New York, LA and DC? We are heading head first into a nuclear ww3 if the US and the West don't realise that their global dominance is over and they can't dictate to the rest of the world with force as they've been accustomed to since the collapse of the Soviet Union. Powerful countries with strong militaries and nuclear weapons are uniting against the West which suggests the world desparately needs some calm and measured leaders who can find diplomatic solutions to these issues otherwise we are all doomed.

 

[K3]

What do you expect countries like Iran Syria Yemen and Lebanon etc. to do? Allow the colonisers and the West dictate the 'global order' in their own backyard? They won't sit quiet forever. You'll find the US is the world's biggest terrorist organisation who have waged illegal wars either directly or via proxy on numerous countries around the world killing millions of innocent people, expanding NATO up to Russia's border and surrounding China with over 400 military bases like a noose around it's neck. Should we lob a few nukes into New York, LA and DC? We are heading head first into a nuclear ww3 if the US and the West don't realise that their global dominance is over and they can't dictate to the rest of the world with force as they've been accustomed to since the collapse of the Soviet Union. Powerful countries with strong militaries and nuclear weapons are uniting against the West which suggests the world desparately needs some calm and measured leaders who can find diplomatic solutions to these issues otherwise we are all doomed.

IMO the above is why BRICS has been formed, and is getting more nations joining every month.

 

[Harry]

IMO the above is why BRICS has been formed, and is getting more nations joining every month.

Countries are lining up to join BRICS - UAE, Egypt Iran and Saudi Arabia recently joining. Iran has also joined Russia and China in the Shanghai Cooperation Organisation meaning their alliance is only strengthening. No doubt China and Russia are supplying weapons and intelligence to Iran who are then supplying their proxies similar to the US/West and it's proxy Ukraine.

 

[Sintiger]

https://www.theage.com.au/world/mid...-given-me-no-choice-20240303-p5f9ex.html?btis

A quote from this article written by a Jewish journalist

“I thought about this abject failure of the international community and the failure of so many Jewish people to condemn an Israeli government so utterly hijacked by right-wing extremists, messianic radicals, hooligan settlers and a morally bankrupt prime minister.”’

 

[DavidSSS]

I wouldn’t be surprised if a nuke or two landed in Iran sometime in the near future.
Maybe in Houthi Yemen as well.
When will the UN grow some balls and enforce its Security Council Resolution 1701.

No, Israel using nukes wouldn't surprise me either. They are way too irresponsible to have the bomb but they do.

DS

 

[Sintiger]

I wouldn’t be surprised if a nuke or two landed in Iran sometime in the near future.
Maybe in Houthi Yemen as well.
When will the UN grow some balls and enforce its Security Council Resolution 1701.

The UN should enforce all resolutions including the ones calling for the stopping of illegal settlements by Israel in the west bank, the sharing of control over East Jerusalem and any other resolutions flouted by Israel.

 

[Willo]

The UN should enforce all resolutions including the ones calling for the stopping of illegal settlements by Israel in the west bank, the sharing of control over East Jerusalem and any other resolutions flouted by Israel.

As I said before. The UN is basically useless. Apart from aid workers.

 

[Willo]

What do you expect countries like Iran Syria Yemen and Lebanon etc. to do? Allow the colonisers and the West dictate the 'global order' in their own backyard? They won't sit quiet forever. You'll find the US is the world's biggest terrorist organisation who have waged illegal wars either directly or via proxy on numerous countries around the world killing millions of innocent people, expanding NATO up to Russia's border and surrounding China with over 400 military bases like a noose around it's neck. Should we lob a few nukes into New York, LA and DC? We are heading head first into a nuclear ww3 if the US and the West don't realise that their global dominance is over and they can't dictate to the rest of the world with force as they've been accustomed to since the collapse of the Soviet Union. Powerful countries with strong militaries and nuclear weapons are uniting against the West which suggests the world desparately needs some calm and measured leaders who can find diplomatic solutions to these issues otherwise we are all doomed.

What’s that got to do with Iran exporting its religious doctrine and arming terror armies?
Did you even watch the video? Or just use it to go on a different tangent?

IMO the above is why BRICS has been formed, and is getting more nations joining every month.

It wasn’t why it was originally formed. It was to provide a bulwark of “emerging” economies against the might of the US/G7 economy.
Now it will be taken over by Russia and China as de facto rulers of that bloc.
Then it will go from economics of the New Development Bank to political policy making.Especially of the big donors to developing nations. ie China’ belt and roads initiative, Pacific “peacekeeping” forces etc.

Still it has *smile* all to do with Iran and Hezbollah, Houthis, Hamas and their goal of Israel’s destruction.

Iran will only use others for its own ends. To destroy Israel, weaken the US, however it may. Then turn on any non Shia Islamic countries.

 

[Harry]

What’s that got to do with Iran exporting its religious doctrine and arming terror armies?
Did you even watch the video? Or just use it to go on a different tangent?

It wasn’t why it was originally formed. It was to provide a bulwark of “emerging” economies against the might of the US/G7 economy.
Now it will be taken over by Russia and China as de facto rulers of that bloc.
Then it will go from economics of the New Development Bank to political policy making.Especially of the big donors to developing nations. ie China’ belt and roads initiative, Pacific “peacekeeping” forces etc.

Still it has *smile* all to do with Iran and Hezbollah, Houthis, Hamas and their goal of Israel’s destruction.

Iran will only use others for its own ends. To destroy Israel, weaken the US, however it may. Then turn on any non Shia Islamic countries.

Yes I watched it. The point is the US has been exerting it's power and brutal force and exporting it's own form of doctrine all over the world and now that other countries amass strength and start to exert influence in their own backyard they are branded terrorists who should to be nuked. You do realise the US and the West are considered terrorists by a large part of the world and their actions in Gaza has just amplified this view.

Good read below if you can be bothered

JOHN PILGER: Silencing the Lambs -- How Propaganda Works

Leni Riefenstahl said her epic films glorifying the Nazis depended on a “submissive void” in the German public. This is how propaganda is done. By John Pilger In the 1970s, I met one of Hitler’s leading propagandists, Leni Riefenstahl, whose epic films glorified the Nazis. We happened to

consortiumnews.com

 

[Sintiger]

As I said before. The UN is basically useless. Apart from aid workers.

That's hyperbolic Willo.

The UN does some great things but most people don't get to hear about them

It also has issues, especially related to the size of its bureaucracy. To give it more teeth its members need to cooperate and many don't or won't

 

[Willo]

That's hyperbolic Willo.

The UN does some great things but most people don't get to hear about them

It also has issues, especially related to the size of its bureaucracy. To give it more teeth its members need to cooperate and many don't or won't

I know it is. And I know they do some great things.Amongst all the corruption and waste.
Too right it has issues. It needs a complete overhaul. Too many duplicated agencies, too often partisanship etc that leads to waste, corruption and disillusionment as to its worth and effectiveness.
How often do matters get brought up, voted on, vetoed by a friend and nothing happens? I’m sure that leads to a fair bit of ill will.
I know it can never be made perfect, but surely there’s a better way forward.
It’s easy to say fix or *smile* it off. But what we have now is better than nothing. But it needs a complete overhaul to be the best organisation that it can be

 

[Willo]

Yes I watched it. The point is the US has been exerting it's power and brutal force and exporting it's own form of doctrine all over the world and now that other countries amass strength and start to exert influence in their own backyard they are branded terrorists who should to be nuked. You do realise the US and the West are considered terrorists by a large part of the world and their actions in Gaza has just amplified this view.

Good read below if you can be bothered

JOHN PILGER: Silencing the Lambs -- How Propaganda Works

Leni Riefenstahl said her epic films glorifying the Nazis depended on a “submissive void” in the German public. This is how propaganda is done. By John Pilger In the 1970s, I met one of Hitler’s leading propagandists, Leni Riefenstahl, whose epic films glorified the Nazis. We happened to

consortiumnews.com

Your first point is correct. Some of their interference has been criminal. But also some has bee; lifesaving. While they have interfered and no doubt have enemies as a result, they have also done some fairly humanitarian work.
Aside from some of the countries where they’ve waged war, there are plenty who have benefited from money!,food, aid, investment etc. form the US. I believe without a shadow of a doubt their aid to countries would dwarf any other country. Even to the countries that burn their flag and cry “death to America”
I can’t see China, Russia, Iran, Saudi, Turkey or any other country doing that. No doubt people will say that those countries don’t interfere as much as the US. They have their heads up their own arse if they think China, Russia and Iran don’t .
Its all in the eye of the beholder admirer.

Yes, I’d say that it’s the majority of countries that are employed as proxies by Iran and Russia, maybe China. If there are any others that don’t have a relationship with those 3 countries I’d be surprised. But I might have missed one or two.

But then those countries that consider the US and the West “terrorists” have no problem sticking their hands out forever and taking the money, food and aid.
Then they laugh at the western countries. Different culture, philosophies, Religions and complete way of life.
Thats why I’d stop all overseas aid. And concentrate on our own interests first and foremost. I don’t get any say with how much tax I pay or where it goes. Obviously we’re overtaxed if we can send $millions overseas, or borrow it and then pay it off.

Let those countries who consider the US and the West “terrorists” find their own way, let their “friends” provide all the aid they need.

I certainly will have a read of the article. Reading is a privilege and I like to read, even if it might be contrary to my pov. It’s the only way you learn.

 

[Harry]

Your first point is correct. Some of their interference has been criminal. But also some has bee; lifesaving. While they have interfered and no doubt have enemies as a result, they have also done some fairly humanitarian work.
Aside from some of the countries where they’ve waged war, there are plenty who have benefited from money!,food, aid, investment etc. form the US. I believe without a shadow of a doubt their aid to countries would dwarf any other country. Even to the countries that burn their flag and cry “death to America”
I can’t see China, Russia, Iran, Saudi, Turkey or any other country doing that. No doubt people will say that those countries don’t interfere as much as the US. They have their heads up their own arse if they think China, Russia and Iran don’t .
Its all in the eye of the beholder admirer.

Yes, I’d say that it’s the majority of countries that are employed as proxies by Iran and Russia, maybe China. If there are any others that don’t have a relationship with those 3 countries I’d be surprised. But I might have missed one or two.

But then those countries that consider the US and the West “terrorists” have no problem sticking their hands out forever and taking the money, food and aid.
Then they laugh at the western countries. Different culture, philosophies, Religions and complete way of life.
Thats why I’d stop all overseas aid. And concentrate on our own interests first and foremost. I don’t get any say with how much tax I pay or where it goes. Obviously we’re overtaxed if we can send $millions overseas, or borrow it and then pay it off.

Let those countries who consider the US and the West “terrorists” find their own way, let their “friends” provide all the aid they need.

I certainly will have a read of the article. Reading is a privilege and I like to read, even if it might be contrary to my pov. It’s the only way you learn.

The world geopolitics landscape is a game of chess and the US/West unipolarity is being challenged like never before on many fronts by forces that have aligned. What you read in the media is a significant part of that chess game. The balance pf power has swung and for humanities sake the worlds leaders need to find a way where diplomacy and mutual respect can prevail.

 

[Sintiger]

I know it is. And I know they do some great things.Amongst all the corruption and waste.
Too right it has issues. It needs a complete overhaul. Too many duplicated agencies, too often partisanship etc that leads to waste, corruption and disillusionment as to its worth and effectiveness.
How often do matters get brought up, voted on, vetoed by a friend and nothing happens? I’m sure that leads to a fair bit of ill will.
I know it can never be made perfect, but surely there’s a better way forward.
It’s easy to say fix or *smile* it off. But what we have now is better than nothing. But it needs a complete overhaul to be the best organisation that it can be

How do you know there is corruption ?

There is corruption in all parts of the aid process as an example from time to time because they are dealing with underdeveloped countries and corrupt governments, and there probably have been elements of corruption within the UN, but the UN itself tries very hard on corruption.

 

[Willo]

Good read below if you can be bothered

JOHN PILGER: Silencing the Lambs -- How Propaganda Works

Leni Riefenstahl said her epic films glorifying the Nazis depended on a “submissive void” in the German public. This is how propaganda is done. By John Pilger In the 1970s, I met one of Hitler’s leading propagandists, Leni Riefenstahl, whose epic films glorified the Nazis. We happened to

consortiumnews.com

I did have a read of this article. Very interesting.

I could even make a case that American/western journalism and it’s slanted reporting is akin to the afl and their accredited media reporting.

I also wiki’d John Pilger as I like to get some background on who writes these articles.
Interesting character and career. Some great reporting, some not so. Has his own opinions, not always right, sometimes dead wrong.

John Pilger - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[Willo]

How do you know there is corruption ?

There is corruption in all parts of the aid process as an example from time to time because they are dealing with underdeveloped countries and corrupt governments, and there probably have been elements of corruption within the UN, but the UN itself tries very hard on corruption.

If humans are involved there is corruption.

The UN can try hard, but where there is money to be made, human nature being what it is will always find a way.
And it’s not just the UN. Other aid providers! World Bank and others all suffer from either corruption in directing aid, or at the end where that aid is supposed to go. It’s siphoned off from the start all the way to the end.

UN staff on £1.5bn Iraq aid project ‘demanding bribes’

Exclusive: whistleblowers allege large sums are being lost to corruption in Iraq as donors fail to track spending on postwar reconstruction

www.theguardian.com

New Study Says UN Aid to Syria Benefits Rights Abusers

Report says UN agencies providing humanitarian aid in the country have worked with companies owned by individuals under US, UK or EU sanctions

www.voanews.com

UN probes corruption in its own agencies in Yemen aid effort

CAIRO (AP) — The United Nations investigators assembled in the departure hall of Sanaa's airport were preparing to leave with precious evidence: laptops and external drives collected from the staff of the World Health Organization.

apnews.com

A Crisis of Conscience: Aid Diversion in Syria and the Impact on the International Aid System - New Lines Institute

This groundbreaking report provides a heavily sourced, field research-based assessment on the extensive web of corruption in Syria that ties together U.N. humanitarian assistance providers and the Assad-led Syrian government. This systemic corruption implicating the U.N.-overseen humanitarian...

newlinesinstitute.org

 

[Sintiger]

If humans are involved there is corruption.

The UN can try hard, but where there is money to be made, human nature being what it is will always find a way.
And it’s not just the UN. Other aid providers! World Bank and others all suffer from either corruption in directing aid, or at the end where that aid is supposed to go. It’s siphoned off from the start all the way to the end.

UN staff on £1.5bn Iraq aid project ‘demanding bribes’

Exclusive: whistleblowers allege large sums are being lost to corruption in Iraq as donors fail to track spending on postwar reconstruction

www.theguardian.com

New Study Says UN Aid to Syria Benefits Rights Abusers

Report says UN agencies providing humanitarian aid in the country have worked with companies owned by individuals under US, UK or EU sanctions

www.voanews.com

UN probes corruption in its own agencies in Yemen aid effort

CAIRO (AP) — The United Nations investigators assembled in the departure hall of Sanaa's airport were preparing to leave with precious evidence: laptops and external drives collected from the staff of the World Health Organization.

apnews.com

A Crisis of Conscience: Aid Diversion in Syria and the Impact on the International Aid System - New Lines Institute

This groundbreaking report provides a heavily sourced, field research-based assessment on the extensive web of corruption in Syria that ties together U.N. humanitarian assistance providers and the Assad-led Syrian government. This systemic corruption implicating the U.N.-overseen humanitarian...

newlinesinstitute.org

I've seen the corruption Willo and I have spoken to lots of people who have seen it but the overwhelming reason for corruption is who these agencies deal with, not them or the UN ( that's not to say everyone in every aid agency or in the UN is squeaky clean because logic says they are not).
People who work in aid hate that some of what they do gets eaten up by corruption in governments and officials of countries they deal with but their attitude has to be that the alternative is noone gets anything.
I just wanted to make sure that when we talk about corruption we don't want to give the impression that it is the aid givers and organisers who are corrupt because that is mostly not the case. When you are dealing with the under developed world unfortunately corruption is everywhere.

 

[Willo]

I've seen the corruption Willo and I have spoken to lots of people who have seen it but the overwhelming reason for corruption is who these agencies deal with, not them or the UN ( that's not to say everyone in every aid agency or in the UN is squeaky clean because logic says they are not).
People who work in aid hate that some of what they do gets eaten up by corruption in governments and officials of countries they deal with but their attitude has to be that the alternative is noone gets anything.
I just wanted to make sure that when we talk about corruption we don't want to give the impression that it is the aid givers and organisers who are corrupt because that is mostly not the case. When you are dealing with the under developed world unfortunately corruption is everywhere.

No doubt the corruption follows all the way through. Human nature being what it is, there are always those out to benefit themselves at the expense of others. It has always been that way and always will.

Im sure that the absolute majority of people who work distributing aid are genuine people who only want to get that aid where it’s desperately needed. But they’re at the end end of the foot chain. Literally.
But. And it’s a big but, sometimes to facilitate that and to circumnavigate the “roadblocks” put in place by the unscrupulous, shortcuts are taken.
I doubt it’s the givers so much, but the organisers? Sure, most would be honest in their endeavours, but there are always the exceptions.

On the whole I agree with you. And it looks like you agree with me that there is corruption. More’s the pity.

And I have no doubt that the people at the coalface do that work in terribly trying conditions. Not just making sure that the aid gets where it’s needed, but also the conditions they live in themselves. Often in highly dangerous areas

 

[DavidSSS]

While it sounds nice to say that a particular country provides a lot of aid, and the idea of stopping aid appeals to some, you have to understand that a large proportion of aid is actually a subsidy to the industries in the aid giving country. Plenty of places where there are multiple taps, multiple types of locomotive or tractor or what have you. The reason for this is that a lot of the aid given is not cash, it is goods which are produced in the aid giving country.

In short, a hell of a lot of aid is a subsidy to business in the aid giving country.

DS