Palestine and Israel

[Willo]

The fact that Israel gets away with portraying itself as the victim is just amazing

No one says Israel have to right “to kill them all”. I certainly havent said it or implied that. People are adding their own words to something I never alluded to. It’s ok to be passionate in your beliefs but don’t imply what I certainly never said

And hamas, Islamic, Brotherhood, ISIS and hezbollah are the Muslim equivalent to the Salvation Army.

But “its just a few rockets” and “the odd terrorist attack”
*smile* me, I can’t believe you wrote that. It’s like me writing, “oh well who gives a *smile* about Gaza, “just kill them all” there’s still plenty of Palestinians around”

 

[AngryAnt]

Congratulations to George Galloway being elected to the UK parliament. One of the very few good guys.

Veteran British left-wing disruptor George Galloway wins a special election

A veteran British political disruptor has won a special election in a heavily Muslim town in northern England following a contest that has been mired in chaos and controversy and dominated by the war in Gaza

www.google.com

Watch how he dismantles the scumbag sky news reporter.

A good guy who was bought and paid by Russian state media to push an anti-Ukraine line to the West? Interesting take

 

[DavidSSS]

I was referring to how Israel sees itself and the current conflict..
You and others may not see Israel as being at war and fighting for their survival. But they do.

It’s not a vote of whether it is or it’s not. If Israel sees it that way, it’s how they will respond. It’s not fantasy. They lose one war, they’re finished. Just one war.
If any of those terror armies get a sniff, they’re invading. Otherwise why would Israel “one of the most well equipped militaries in the world” . It’s not there for street parades. They know what’s at stake.

Total *smile*.
Talk about rewriting history

A very well-informed reply there . . . oh, wait, it was a reply with no content. Which bit is rewriting history?
Are you claiming Gaza is not occupied territory?

Israel claims to be the victim, but those in power know better, that is political posturing. Some may fall for it but most of us don't.

DS

 

[Sintiger]

You and others may not see Israel as being at war and fighting for their survival. But they do.

No they don’t.
They know it is well past that now, it’s not the 1950s.
They are fighting to establish a Jewish state in the whole of Palestine.
This is not a war, it is carnage.
The sickest joke of all is now happening. The Americans are dropping aid on Gaza to help the people being bombed by weapons supplied by them.

 

[Willo]

.

 

[Willo]

No they don’t.
They know it is well past that now, it’s not the 1950s.
They are fighting to establish a Jewish state in the whole of Palestine.
This is not a war, it is carnage.
The sickest joke of all is now happening. The Americans are dropping aid on Gaza to help the people being bombed by weapons supplied by them.

As I said previously, your opinion they’re not fighting for their survival.
Israel believes if the6 don’t root Hamas out now, it will only be repeated.
Blame Hamas for the carnage. They kicked it all off. If you Don’t accept that tell me why Israel didn’t just do what they’re doing a month or a year before

 

[Willo]

A very well-informed reply there . . . oh, wait, it was a reply with no content. Which bit is rewriting history?
Are you claiming Gaza is not occupied territory?

Israel claims to be the victim, but those in power know better, that is political posturing. Some may fall for it but most of us don't.

DS

Well why would I bother to repeat myself. I explained it all previously only for you to ignore it and wander off into the desert again.

Yes it was poor Hamas who were the victims when they slaughtered 1200 innocents. What were the victims thinking getting in the way or bullets, bombs, knives, shovels and axes. Even the babies should know better.

At least the Palestinians have their faith that they are martyrs and will go to paradise.
As long as you’re not in Hamas leadership of course, then, you’re too valuable to be martyred.

 

[Sintiger]

As I said previously, your opinion they’re not fighting for their survival.
Israel believes if the6 don’t root Hamas out now, it will only be repeated.
Blame Hamas for the carnage. They kicked it all off. If you Don’t accept that tell me why Israel didn’t just do what they’re doing a month or a year before

They have been doing it
They have slowly been taking land away in the west bank. They have slowly strangled the Palestinian population in east Jerusalem by forcing them to live in what is essentially a ghetto.
There have been multiple "wars" already, there was a big one in 2014 where 4-5,000 Palestinians were killed.
They have been slowly destroying life in Gaza with a blockade, reducing access to power and water
6 months ago Netanyahu was on his last legs. He was making changes to the judicial system and the power of the courts. He has been under investigation for corruption for years. The only reason he was in power was because of support from right wing extreme parties and the ultra orthodox jews.
Then Hamas handed him a gift, an excuse to turn attention away from him and his cobbled together government and also fast track what he really wants which is a jewish state in the whole of Palestine.
I am sorry for Willo but this whole idea that October 7th was the start is so historically wrong
The idea that a population can be so persecuted for so long but that persecution should be ignored because of one horrendous act of vengeance is so lacking in basic logic I can't even fathom it.
Using your logic it would be ok for the Palestinians in the west bank to launch a full scale attack on Israel for the 350 settler and IDF murders of palestinians since that time, assuming they had the capability. I assume you would support that ?

 

[Harry]

A good guy who was bought and paid by Russian state media to push an anti-Ukraine line to the West? Interesting take

You're sounding more and more like a neo con by the day. Typical smear campaign by the warmongers. Perhaps these were his own views based on evidence of NATOs and the CIAs involvement. One doesn’t have to be paid by the Russians to see what's happening.

 

[Willo]

They have been doing it
They have slowly been taking land away in the west bank. They have slowly strangled the Palestinian population in east Jerusalem by forcing them to live in what is essentially a ghetto.
There have been multiple "wars" already, there was a big one in 2014 where 4-5,000 Palestinians were killed.
They have been slowly destroying life in Gaza with a blockade, reducing access to power and water
6 months ago Netanyahu was on his last legs. He was making changes to the judicial system and the power of the courts. He has been under investigation for corruption for years. The only reason he was in power was because of support from right wing extreme parties and the ultra orthodox jews.
Then Hamas handed him a gift, an excuse to turn attention away from him and his cobbled together government and also fast track what he really wants which is a jewish state in the whole of Palestine.
I am sorry for Willo but this whole idea that October 7th was the start is so historically wrong
The idea that a population can be so persecuted for so long but that persecution should be ignored because of one horrendous act of vengeance is so lacking in basic logic I can't even fathom it.
Using your logic it would be ok for the Palestinians in the west bank to launch a full scale attack on Israel for the 350 settler and IDF murders of palestinians since that time, assuming they had the capability. I assume you would support that ?

No I haven’t said Oct 7 was the start of this. I have said it’s the catalyst to why Israel invaded Gaza now.
What started the “big one in 2014”? I’m sure you’ll say Israel’s injustices caused the intifada and rocket attacks into Israel.
Whether Netanyahu was on his last legs or not, Hamas caused this.

No attack into Israel, no retaliatory invasion of Gaza.Pure and simple.

People can come up with all the excuses they like. But the bottom line is why didn’t Israel invade Gaza on Oct 6. Or Sept 10 or any date prior to Oct 7?
There’s only ONE answer. One. Not other excuses as to what Israel did or didn’t do before that. Oct 7 was the catalyst.

Would any of you answer ONE question.
Would Israel have bombed and then invaded Gaza on the 27th October 2023 if Oct 7 never happened?

 

[MD Jazz]

Harbouring terrorists is Israel’s justification. There are still thousands of hamas still alive. So in their eyes the job isn’t finished. If there were a ceasefire and they pulled out. It would happen again and again.

Ha ha. You think Israel's action is going to reduce future suffering? They have created generations of future opposition. thousands upon thousands who will justify their actions based on what they have suffered at the hands of Israel. It will happen again and again and more often is my prediction. If your whoile family has been wiped out and everything destroyed, what would you want to happen to the perpetrators?

Unless of course they wipe every last Palestinian out?

 

[Harry]

Ha ha. You think Israel's action is going to reduce future suffering? They have created generations of future opposition. thousands upon thousands who will justify their actions based on what they have suffered at the hands of Israel. It will happen again and again and more often is my prediction. If your whoile family has been wiped out and everything destroyed, what would you want to happen to the perpetrators?

Unless of course they wipe every last Palestinian out?

That's the plan. More bombings equals more terrorists equals more killing of Palestinians equals genocide. Easy formula.

 

[Willo]

Ha ha. You think Israel's action is going to reduce future suffering? They have created generations of future opposition. thousands upon thousands who will justify their actions based on what they have suffered at the hands of Israel. It will happen again and again and more often is my prediction. If your whoile family has been wiped out and everything destroyed, what would you want to happen to the perpetrators?

Unless of course they wipe every last Palestinian out?

Depends On whose “future suffering” you’re referring to. If they know what will happen if another Hamas atrocity would occur maybe they’d have 2nd thoughts.
Or maybe they wouldn’t and Israel would go in and repeat it all over again.
When you’ve ALWAYS been surrounded by enemies and your backs against the wall disproportionate action is used to dissuade a repeat of enemy actions.
Is it right? Is it acceptable? Depends which side of the fence you’re on. If you’re inside Israel’s border, You do everything in your power. If you’re outside the border, you use every atrocity you can, you behave in a manner that isn’t acceptable to anyone, then go squealing when the IDF comes .

The old saying “if you don’t learn from history, you doomed to repeat it”
Yes we’ve all said the same. Palestinians will always have their terror armies and seek revenge. Then Israel will respond. And on the vicious cycle goes

 

[TigerMasochist]

Ha ha. You think Israel's action is going to reduce future suffering? They have created generations of future opposition. thousands upon thousands who will justify their actions based on what they have suffered at the hands of Israel. It will happen again and again and more often is my prediction. If your whoile family has been wiped out and everything destroyed, what would you want to happen to the perpetrators?

Unless of course they wipe every last Palestinian out?

Bingo.
You've actually nailed it there Jazzy one. There's only ever been one way of stopping the generations of hatred and ongoing fighting, and that is quite simply genocide. But humans are way to civilised n caring to do that and so they create for themselves a situation where the hatreds n revenge for injustices goes on for generation after generation in a never ending spiral. Israel n Palestine is only one of many festering sores worldwide that never truly heal. This one and Russia / Ukraine are just the big noisy active volcanoes erupting at the moment while there's plenty of others just quietly bubbling away in the back ground and a few more lying dormant just waiting for a tremor to arc them up again.

 

[Sintiger]

No I haven’t said Oct 7 was the start of this. I have said it’s the catalyst to why Israel invaded Gaza now.
What started the “big one in 2014”? I’m sure you’ll say Israel’s injustices caused the intifada and rocket attacks into Israel.
Whether Netanyahu was on his last legs or not, Hamas caused this.

No attack into Israel, no retaliatory invasion of Gaza.Pure and simple.

People can come up with all the excuses they like. But the bottom line is why didn’t Israel invade Gaza on Oct 6. Or Sept 10 or any date prior to Oct 7?
There’s only ONE answer. One. Not other excuses as to what Israel did or didn’t do before that. Oct 7 was the catalyst.

Would any of you answer ONE question.
Would Israel have bombed and then invaded Gaza on the 27th October 2023 if Oct 7 never happened?

I will answer that but can you please answer one question.

Do you support a full scale invasion of Israel by West Bank Palestinians in retaliation for the murder of 350 people by illegal settlers and the IDF since October 7th 2023?

If not why not because you seem to support the Israeli version of it.

I don’t support either btw.

To answer your question I have no idea and frankly neither do you. What I suspect is that at some point Israel would have found a reason to escalate and if not they would have continued with their takeover of Palestine by stealth.

3 Israeli teenagers were kidnapped and murdered in 2014 in the West Bank by Hamas. Israel then arrested 350 Hamas in the West Bank, there were a few rockets …full scale invasion resulted and 2000 Palestinians were killed. 2000 Palestinians = 3 Israelis. Sounds like the right ratio.

Hamas at the time said such operations were the only way to get the world to pay attention to the plight of Palestinians in Gaza. I don’t approve of such violence but that’s what comes from desperation when you are oppressed and live in an occupied land.

 

[TigerMasochist]

I will answer that but can you please answer one question.

Do you support a full scale invasion of Israel by West Bank Palestinians in retaliation for the murder of 350 people by illegal settlers and the IDF since October 7th 2023?

If not why not because you seem to support the Israeli version of it.

I don’t support either btw.

To answer your question I have no idea and frankly neither do you. What I suspect is that at some point Israel would have found a reason to escalate and if not they would have continued with their takeover of Palestine by stealth.

3 Israeli teenagers were kidnapped and murdered in 2014 in the West Bank by Hamas. Israel then arrested 350 Hamas in the West Bank, there were a few rockets …full scale invasion resulted and 2000 Palestinians were killed. 2000 Palestinians = 3 Israelis. Sounds like the right ratio.

Hamas at the time said such operations were the only way to get the world to pay attention to the plight of Palestinians in Gaza. I don’t approve of such violence but that’s what comes from desperation when you are oppressed and live in an occupied land.

If I'm remembering some vague stuff even halfway right from history. I'm pretty sure the Jews were slaves at one time of the Egyptian Pharaos, pretty sure they among others also copped some regular arse kickings off the mighty Roman empire way back when. Then of course everyone's got a fair idea that the Nazis had a pretty full on crack at completely exterminating them less than a hundred years ago. Since then the Jewish people ( rightly or wrongly ) found / made themselves a patch of turf to call home where Israel is now. Ever since they settled there, they've been stuck in constant punch ups with every other Arabic / Semitic ( yep there's a whole bunch of them, not just Jews ) nation in that region.

Again, I'm not picking a right nor wrong for anyone. But is it surprising or strange if some mob somewhere that's constantly had the *smile* kicked out of it for thousands, ( not just a couple of hundred ) of years eventually gets to the point of overkill ( bad choice of word ) when retaliating against a heinous attack from one of the mobs that is constantly *smile* kicking them while hiding behind women and children's skirts?
Hezbollah, Hamas, Houthis, all backed and armed by Iran. All hide behind the women and children to do their dirty work and attack Israel from all sides. Strange how they perpetrated a massive attack from undercover just as Israel were finally negotiating some solid peace arrangements with several other Arabic nations.
Reckon there's a way way bigger game playing out at the moment than just Israel encroaching on Palestine a bit at a time, that's just the surface hubba bubbling. Bit like a momentary gut rumbling n fart or two before the bali belly takes devastating control.

 

[Sintiger]

Congratulations to George Galloway being elected to the UK parliament. One of the very few good guys.

Veteran British left-wing disruptor George Galloway wins a special election

A veteran British political disruptor has won a special election in a heavily Muslim town in northern England following a contest that has been mired in chaos and controversy and dominated by the war in Gaza

www.google.com

Watch how he dismantles the scumbag sky news reporter.

Absolutely freakin brilliant

 

[Sintiger]

No one says Israel have to right “to kill them all”. I certainly havent said it or implied that. People are adding their own words to something I never alluded to. It’s ok to be passionate in your beliefs but don’t imply what I certainly never said

And hamas, Islamic, Brotherhood, ISIS and hezbollah are the Muslim equivalent to the Salvation Army.

But “its just a few rockets” and “the odd terrorist attack”
*smile* me, I can’t believe you wrote that. It’s like me writing, “oh well who gives a *smile* about Gaza, “just kill them all” there’s still plenty of Palestinians around”

You were referring to Israel believing it was fighting for its existence when I said that.

My point was that Hamas has some rockets and they carry out a few terrorist attacks. That’s all they have. To think that what Hamas could do to Israel militarily threatens its existence is completely laughable.

Willo, you need to have another look at what I was replying to and then see the context of what I said.

Barking up the wrong tree in this one

 

[Harry]

A good guy who was bought and paid by Russian state media to push an anti-Ukraine line to the West? Interesting take

I knew you were gonna say that

 

[Willo]

I will answer that but can you please answer one question.

Do you support a full scale invasion of Israel by West Bank Palestinians in retaliation for the murder of 350 people by illegal settlers and the IDF since October 7th 2023?

If not why not because you seem to support the Israeli version of it.

I don’t support either btw.

To answer your question I have no idea and frankly neither do you. What I suspect is that at some point Israel would have found a reason to escalate and if not they would have continued with their takeover of Palestine by stealth.

3 Israeli teenagers were kidnapped and murdered in 2014 in the West Bank by Hamas. Israel then arrested 350 Hamas in the West Bank, there were a few rockets …full scale invasion resulted and 2000 Palestinians were killed. 2000 Palestinians = 3 Israelis. Sounds like the right ratio.

Hamas at the time said such operations were the only way to get the world to pay attention to the plight of Palestinians in Gaza. I don’t approve of such violence but that’s what comes from desperation when you are oppressed and live in an occupied land.

No I don’t.
Because I can see why Israel did as they have “i must support it.“ Or maybe more to the point, I don’t see it through Palestinian sympathisers eyes. Just as someone who can see what the reply would be. It’s always been that way. Kill one, they’ll kill three. Kill ten, they’ll kill a hundred.

Of course we know the answer to the question I asked.
Israel wouldn’t have invaded Gaza if Hamas hadn’t committed the atrocities of Oct 7. Its common sense , it’s easy to answer, otherwise why didn’t they invade onGaza on Oct 6 or Sept or July.
Just because people don’t want to face the truth and acknowledge that Hamas kicked the whole thing off with their Oct 7 atrocities doesn’t change the fact. It’s called being an ostrich and sticking your head in the sand.

No one will admit Hamas kicked it all off. They will always come back to its Israel’s fault.

75 years later and counting. The Palestinians will still be refugees in another 150 years. What’s the answer? Apart from giving them a $billion a year..
and repeating “stolen land” “from the river to the sea” “kill the Jews” “genocide” “queers for Palestine” how many slogans will get repeated ad nauseum?
You and the usual crowd lay all blame at the feet of Israel. That will never change. Israel isn’t going to hand back land to Palestinians.

I’m tired of the same questions I’ve answered ten times. Just because the usual crowd don’t like to answer a question truthfully and want to deflect and wander off on any other subject.

Who can up with a worthwhile solution?
Something workable. We’ve been over the same thing time and time again.

Now, where’s the rest of the palestinian brigade. In ya come