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IMPORTANT // Please look after your loved ones, yourself and be kind to others. If you are feeling that the world is too hard to handle there is always help - I implore you not to hesitate in contacting one of these wonderful organisations Lifeline and Beyond Blue ... and I'm sure reaching out to our PRE community we will find a way to help. T.
Palestine and Israel
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Re: Not Good News From Israel
Tigersnake,
Agree with you all the way mate! :clap
Bali is another destination, where we've had 2 bomb-blasts...and the Government have warned us repeatedly that its a volatile area, yet people keep going there for their 'cheap' holiday.
If there's another blast....they'll expect the Australian Government to come and rescue them again.
I reckon go there at your own peril...
:rofl
Bloody hell mate....you better watch out, the "lefties" are coming....
I said something similar when Australia played Greece in the soccer, that it's disapointing seeing people who were born here, and grew up here, and receive all the benfits/lifestyle/advantages that this country provides for them, yet they were sitting there next to me at the MCG, supporting the opposition team!!!!
And now we see it going a step further, when people use dual-citizenships as they see fit.
Dual-citizenships should be banned....you're either a citizen of one country and have allegiance to that country...or you don't, and have allegiance to another country. It'd be like supporting 2 footy teams as passionately, even though they're in the same league (seeing we're on a footy forum, I'd use a footy analogy!)....it can't happen.
People need to take responsibility for their own actions and decisions and stop sitting on the bloody fence!
tigersnake said:
Tigersnake,
Agree with you all the way mate! :clap
Bali is another destination, where we've had 2 bomb-blasts...and the Government have warned us repeatedly that its a volatile area, yet people keep going there for their 'cheap' holiday.
If there's another blast....they'll expect the Australian Government to come and rescue them again.
I reckon go there at your own peril...
nitrotiger said:Absolutely bang-on tigersnake.....I was thinking exactly the same thing with this little afterthought....
All these bloody blowins(sorry-I mean New Australianswith dual citizenship)come traipsing into the country,then tellin us that their way should be the way and that we Australians have got it wrong......
But when they get stuck overseas in a war situation or when the sh!te hits the fan ,theyre the bloody first to pull out their visas and claim AUSTRALIAN citizenship and Demand the Australian government help em out!Now!Pronto!Immediately!WE killed our last slaves!Crivens....any wonder there,s "racism"...... >
:rofl
Bloody hell mate....you better watch out, the "lefties" are coming....
I said something similar when Australia played Greece in the soccer, that it's disapointing seeing people who were born here, and grew up here, and receive all the benfits/lifestyle/advantages that this country provides for them, yet they were sitting there next to me at the MCG, supporting the opposition team!!!!
And now we see it going a step further, when people use dual-citizenships as they see fit.
Dual-citizenships should be banned....you're either a citizen of one country and have allegiance to that country...or you don't, and have allegiance to another country. It'd be like supporting 2 footy teams as passionately, even though they're in the same league (seeing we're on a footy forum, I'd use a footy analogy!
)....it can't happen.People need to take responsibility for their own actions and decisions and stop sitting on the bloody fence!
Re: Not Good News From Israel
And why would you barrack against your own??? ???
rosy23 said:I barracked for Matts Wilander to beat Pat Cash in the Australian open Liverpool. D'ya reckon I should I move to Sweden?
And why would you barrack against your own??? ???
Re: Not Good News From Israel
Thanks Phantom, wow, more complicated than I thought. You are very very well informed!! My original position is a little less clear. I had thought that the Palestinians lost the war, lost there land, and the Brits did as they see fit. You play, you lose, you pay. Seems to me a lot of tribes, families and cultures, not to mention religion, all pushing ther own barrow in every direction as well as up and down!
Thanks Phantom, wow, more complicated than I thought. You are very very well informed!! My original position is a little less clear. I had thought that the Palestinians lost the war, lost there land, and the Brits did as they see fit. You play, you lose, you pay. Seems to me a lot of tribes, families and cultures, not to mention religion, all pushing ther own barrow in every direction as well as up and down!
Re: Not Good News From Israel
I would say many came to Australia following the 1980 Civil War. When they got their citizenship, they signed up for benefits, then went home.
Only a very small proportion of them will want to come back to Australia.
I heard a woman being interviewed on the ABC. She has dual citizenship, and lives in the hills by the Syrian border. She had no intension of returning to Australia. The war was not in her visible or audible surround.
I have no objection to this. I wish her, as everyone, the best of luck.
Michael said:
I would say many came to Australia following the 1980 Civil War. When they got their citizenship, they signed up for benefits, then went home.
Only a very small proportion of them will want to come back to Australia.
I heard a woman being interviewed on the ABC. She has dual citizenship, and lives in the hills by the Syrian border. She had no intension of returning to Australia. The war was not in her visible or audible surround.
I have no objection to this. I wish her, as everyone, the best of luck.
Re: Not Good News From Israel
So your implying that they escaped the war and got citizenship only to take advantage of our social security system and then went home :
Gee Phantom sometimes your neck is as red as the rest of them!
By the way there were that many holes in your response to my post the other day that I just could not have been bothered pointing them out to you.
The UN in Iraq keeping the peace hey! ???
Phantom said:
So your implying that they escaped the war and got citizenship only to take advantage of our social security system and then went home :
Gee Phantom sometimes your neck is as red as the rest of them!
By the way there were that many holes in your response to my post the other day that I just could not have been bothered pointing them out to you.
The UN in Iraq keeping the peace hey! ???
Re: Not Good News From Israel
I stand by what I say.
Yes, many came to Australia because of the civil war and gained citizenship. Stayed for a while too. Then when things quietened down in Lebanon, many returned.
Nothing special about it or them. There are many immigrants from other parts of the world who do and have done exactly the same thing.
Those who have read my posts would know that I am NOT a "redneck".
Since you are so knowledgeable, Westie, maybe you could enlighten us with your story of how the people of the Middle East came together, how Islam developed, and how this has led to conflict. (Something over 50 words would be appreciated, if you can manage it.) And we'll see how balanced your views are.
I stand by what I say.
Yes, many came to Australia because of the civil war and gained citizenship. Stayed for a while too. Then when things quietened down in Lebanon, many returned.
Nothing special about it or them. There are many immigrants from other parts of the world who do and have done exactly the same thing.
Those who have read my posts would know that I am NOT a "redneck".
Since you are so knowledgeable, Westie, maybe you could enlighten us with your story of how the people of the Middle East came together, how Islam developed, and how this has led to conflict. (Something over 50 words would be appreciated, if you can manage it.) And we'll see how balanced your views are.
Re: Not Good News From Israel
Obviously your not a red neck Phantom. I would find that offensive if that were me but you are much more readily to accept critism to me as well, especially when one has so much knowledge as you on such a history of conflict. It has been a fantastic thread in most parts with people bringing their own thoughts about this conflict to us who may not know the in depth history of the Middle East. It has really been a eye opener to me and maybe alot of others on here. :clap
Obviously your not a red neck Phantom. I would find that offensive if that were me but you are much more readily to accept critism to me as well, especially when one has so much knowledge as you on such a history of conflict. It has been a fantastic thread in most parts with people bringing their own thoughts about this conflict to us who may not know the in depth history of the Middle East. It has really been a eye opener to me and maybe alot of others on here. :clap
Re: Not Good News From Israel
Phantom,
I commend you for standing your ground.
Please keep your informed posts coming, as the "lefties" may learn something yet!
Just a question about what is going on.....do you think if Israel stopped the barrages, and said in front of the world that they are willing to give the Hezbollah 12-hours to return their soldiers before restarting their military attacks, then that might pressure Hezbollah to hand them over?
Not handing them over then would surely give Israel more power to keep a military-style offensive going in Lebanon, and would also show that Israel were willing to come to an agreement...
And if Hezbollah do hand them over, then it might end the (current) crisis anyway.
WesternTiger,
Why is it, that as soon as anyone questions or criticises any type of minority group, they are labelled as "redneck" or "racist"?
If you read Phantom's posts, he has just stated facts....facts that people like yourself want to bury your head in the sand about.
I'm sick of people using Australia as some "charity case"...to come here and then spit us out when it suits them.
That to me isn't being a redneck, but someone who wants the attributes and advantages of AUSTRALIA to be enjoyed by AUSTRALIANS....not just anyone who wants to use us up.
Phantom said:
Phantom,
I commend you for standing your ground.
Please keep your informed posts coming, as the "lefties" may learn something yet!
Just a question about what is going on.....do you think if Israel stopped the barrages, and said in front of the world that they are willing to give the Hezbollah 12-hours to return their soldiers before restarting their military attacks, then that might pressure Hezbollah to hand them over?
Not handing them over then would surely give Israel more power to keep a military-style offensive going in Lebanon, and would also show that Israel were willing to come to an agreement...
And if Hezbollah do hand them over, then it might end the (current) crisis anyway.
WesternTiger said:So your implying that they escaped the war and got citizenship only to take advantage of our social security system and then went home :
Gee Phantom sometimes your neck is as red as the rest of them!
By the way there were that many holes in your response to my post the other day that I just could not have been bothered pointing them out to you.
The UN in Iraq keeping the peace hey! ???
WesternTiger,
Why is it, that as soon as anyone questions or criticises any type of minority group, they are labelled as "redneck" or "racist"?
If you read Phantom's posts, he has just stated facts....facts that people like yourself want to bury your head in the sand about.
I'm sick of people using Australia as some "charity case"...to come here and then spit us out when it suits them.
That to me isn't being a redneck, but someone who wants the attributes and advantages of AUSTRALIA to be enjoyed by AUSTRALIANS....not just anyone who wants to use us up.
B
Bill James
Guest
Re: Not Good News From Israel
Jayfox would a good commentary be Pre-millenial, A-millenial, or Post-Millenial, and if the first or the last would it be Pre-tribualation, mid tribulation or post tribulation. 2 Peter 1:20
jayfox said:
Jayfox would a good commentary be Pre-millenial, A-millenial, or Post-Millenial, and if the first or the last would it be Pre-tribualation, mid tribulation or post tribulation. 2 Peter 1:20
Re: Not Good News From Israel
You seem to barrack for Liverpool in the EPL. That's a no-no, you don't live in Liverpool, what a fence sitter, you are obviously picking and choosing there.
I would wager few of us live in Richmond either. In fact I live close to the Western Oval. Oh dear, suppose I better start supporting the Doggies now otherwise I am barracking against my "own".
FWIW I much preferred Mats Wilander to Pat Cash as a tennis player as well.
Liverpool said:rosy23 said:I barracked for Matts Wilander to beat Pat Cash in the Australian open Liverpool. D'ya reckon I should I move to Sweden?
And why would you barrack against your own??? ???
You seem to barrack for Liverpool in the EPL. That's a no-no, you don't live in Liverpool, what a fence sitter, you are obviously picking and choosing there.
I would wager few of us live in Richmond either. In fact I live close to the Western Oval. Oh dear, suppose I better start supporting the Doggies now otherwise I am barracking against my "own".
FWIW I much preferred Mats Wilander to Pat Cash as a tennis player as well.
Re: Not Good News From Israel
Yes, I support Liverpool and don't live there.
But I won't be supporting Liverpool if they ever play against an Aussie team....unlike Rosy, who was supporting a Swede against a fellow Aussie!
antman said:Liverpool said:rosy23 said:I barracked for Matts Wilander to beat Pat Cash in the Australian open Liverpool. D'ya reckon I should I move to Sweden?
And why would you barrack against your own??? ???
You seem to barrack for Liverpool in the EPL. That's a no-no, you don't live in Liverpool, what a fence sitter, you are obviously picking and choosing there.
Yes, I support Liverpool and don't live there.
But I won't be supporting Liverpool if they ever play against an Aussie team....unlike Rosy, who was supporting a Swede against a fellow Aussie!
Re: Not Good News From Israel
It's called freedom of choice.
Personally I would support almost anyone against Hewitt, for example.
This is all getting very off-topic for which I apologise.
Liverpool said:Yes, I support Liverpool and don't live there.
But I won't be supporting Liverpool if they ever play against an Aussie team....unlike Rosy, who was supporting a Swede against a fellow Aussie!
It's called freedom of choice.
Personally I would support almost anyone against Hewitt, for example.
This is all getting very off-topic for which I apologise.
Re: Not Good News From Israel
Robert Fisk has been following Mid-East politics for thirty years.
Here is an excellent article from today's Age on Israel's agenda in destroying the Lebanese infrastructure in and around Beirut, and with a history lesson thrown in.
http://www.theage.com.au/news/in-depth/a-farewell-to-beirut/2006/07/21/1153166583302.html
Robert Fisk has been following Mid-East politics for thirty years.
Here is an excellent article from today's Age on Israel's agenda in destroying the Lebanese infrastructure in and around Beirut, and with a history lesson thrown in.
http://www.theage.com.au/news/in-depth/a-farewell-to-beirut/2006/07/21/1153166583302.html
Re: Not Good News From Israel
I was a big fan of Mats because of his outstanding sportsmanship. He was humble in victory and gracious in defeat. It wasn't the Davis Cup, it was individuals playing for themselves.
If you think you have to get behind people because they're Australian maybe you should cough up a few toasters.
Liverpool said:But I won't be supporting Liverpool if they ever play against an Aussie team....unlike Rosy, who was supporting a Swede against a fellow Aussie!
I was a big fan of Mats because of his outstanding sportsmanship. He was humble in victory and gracious in defeat. It wasn't the Davis Cup, it was individuals playing for themselves.
If you think you have to get behind people because they're Australian maybe you should cough up a few toasters.
Re: Not Good News From Israel
Ok,
Chapter 3 - The Rise of the Levant & the Crusades, 800AD - 1450AD
The development of Islam, and its off-shoots, up to the fall of Constantinople.
So what happened around the Middle East towards the end of the BCs & early ADs.
1. The Phoenicians spread through the Mediterranean to create the Carthagian empire in northern Africa & southern Spain. This was taken by Rome.
2. Rome took hold of the whole of the Middle East, reaching a peak at about 300AD.
3. In the 4th century AD, Rome became administratively too complex and split into two. The Western Roman Empire centred in Rome & the Eastern Roman Empire centered in Constantinople ( Istanbul). The Middle East came under the control of the Eastern Roman Empire.
4. In 227AD, Ardashir, with a revival of Zoroasterianism, created the neo-Persian Sassanid Empire.
Mohammed's famous dates.
570AD, the birth of Mohammed.
622, 'The Hegira', the flight to Medina, 'the city of the prophet', the beginning of the Islamic calendar.
630, the return of Mohammed to Mecca.
632, the death of Mohammed at Medina.
Upon Mohammed's death, 632AD, Islam had spread across the Arabian peninsula.
By the end of the first 4 Caliphs, it had spread into the Levant, through Egypt into Libya, east up to but not including Persia, and north to Armenia, but did not include Anatolia (Asia Minor) which was still held by the Eastern Roman Empire. It was during the time of the Caliphs that the original split between the Sunni & the Shi'ite Muslims occurred.
In 661, the area controlled by Islam was organised into an empire, being the Omayyad dynasty. By 750AD, it had spread eastwards to the Indian border, and westwards into southern Spain. The political centre was Bagdad.
The Abbasid dynasty took over the Middle East in 750AD, and remained until 1258, but were politically unimportant after 940AD.
In 1000AD, the Cairo based Caliphate of the Fatimids took over until 1170. During this time the 1st Crusade occurred and Jerusalem & the Levant was taken by the Crusaders in 1099. It was held by them until 1187.
In 1170, as a result of the decline of the Abbasids, a young ambitious leader born in Tikrit (the same birth city as Sadam Hussein), named Saladin, he recaptured Jerusalem and created the Ayyubid dynasty. When Saladin captured Jerusalem he was merciful and spared all the crusaders & their families, and let them return to Europe.
1189-92, was the 3rd, King Richard's, crusade. The result of which was the agreement to allow the Christian churches in Jerusalem to continue & free pilgrimage for all Christians into Jerusalem.
The 2nd crusade, 1147-49 was a complete failure, whilst the 4th crusade, 1202-04, led to the sacking of the old Christian bastion of Constantinople by the crusaders.
The last, 7th crusade, was in 1270.
In all, the crusades were very ugly with very little nobility shown by the crusaders. The Muslims continued to show mercy to the Christians. The crusaders repaid this by continually butchering all Muslims.
The Crusades, and later the Inquisition, show the worst elements of Christianity.
Between 800-1492, the Muslims were progressively thrown out of Spain.
In the 1300s the Muslims reorganised themselves in the Ottoman Empire. Constantinople was taken by them in 1453, renamed Istabul, and became the Ottoman Empire's capital. By 1529 they were stopped just outside the walls of Vienna. My favourite Ottomon emperor was 'Sulieman the Magnificent', 1520-66. That was the zenith of the Ottomans, whose empire slowly declined until it collapsed in WWI.
During this time there were many intrigues, coupes, revolts & inter-tribal conflicts. Shi'ites v Sunni, and vice-versa, and, of course, everyone v Druze.
I'll come back in a short while to explain 'the Druze', a most interesting people in the Middle East.
Ok,
Chapter 3 - The Rise of the Levant & the Crusades, 800AD - 1450AD
The development of Islam, and its off-shoots, up to the fall of Constantinople.
So what happened around the Middle East towards the end of the BCs & early ADs.
1. The Phoenicians spread through the Mediterranean to create the Carthagian empire in northern Africa & southern Spain. This was taken by Rome.
2. Rome took hold of the whole of the Middle East, reaching a peak at about 300AD.
3. In the 4th century AD, Rome became administratively too complex and split into two. The Western Roman Empire centred in Rome & the Eastern Roman Empire centered in Constantinople ( Istanbul). The Middle East came under the control of the Eastern Roman Empire.
4. In 227AD, Ardashir, with a revival of Zoroasterianism, created the neo-Persian Sassanid Empire.
Mohammed's famous dates.
570AD, the birth of Mohammed.
622, 'The Hegira', the flight to Medina, 'the city of the prophet', the beginning of the Islamic calendar.
630, the return of Mohammed to Mecca.
632, the death of Mohammed at Medina.
Upon Mohammed's death, 632AD, Islam had spread across the Arabian peninsula.
By the end of the first 4 Caliphs, it had spread into the Levant, through Egypt into Libya, east up to but not including Persia, and north to Armenia, but did not include Anatolia (Asia Minor) which was still held by the Eastern Roman Empire. It was during the time of the Caliphs that the original split between the Sunni & the Shi'ite Muslims occurred.
In 661, the area controlled by Islam was organised into an empire, being the Omayyad dynasty. By 750AD, it had spread eastwards to the Indian border, and westwards into southern Spain. The political centre was Bagdad.
The Abbasid dynasty took over the Middle East in 750AD, and remained until 1258, but were politically unimportant after 940AD.
In 1000AD, the Cairo based Caliphate of the Fatimids took over until 1170. During this time the 1st Crusade occurred and Jerusalem & the Levant was taken by the Crusaders in 1099. It was held by them until 1187.
In 1170, as a result of the decline of the Abbasids, a young ambitious leader born in Tikrit (the same birth city as Sadam Hussein), named Saladin, he recaptured Jerusalem and created the Ayyubid dynasty. When Saladin captured Jerusalem he was merciful and spared all the crusaders & their families, and let them return to Europe.
1189-92, was the 3rd, King Richard's, crusade. The result of which was the agreement to allow the Christian churches in Jerusalem to continue & free pilgrimage for all Christians into Jerusalem.
The 2nd crusade, 1147-49 was a complete failure, whilst the 4th crusade, 1202-04, led to the sacking of the old Christian bastion of Constantinople by the crusaders.
The last, 7th crusade, was in 1270.
In all, the crusades were very ugly with very little nobility shown by the crusaders. The Muslims continued to show mercy to the Christians. The crusaders repaid this by continually butchering all Muslims.
The Crusades, and later the Inquisition, show the worst elements of Christianity.
Between 800-1492, the Muslims were progressively thrown out of Spain.
In the 1300s the Muslims reorganised themselves in the Ottoman Empire. Constantinople was taken by them in 1453, renamed Istabul, and became the Ottoman Empire's capital. By 1529 they were stopped just outside the walls of Vienna. My favourite Ottomon emperor was 'Sulieman the Magnificent', 1520-66. That was the zenith of the Ottomans, whose empire slowly declined until it collapsed in WWI.
During this time there were many intrigues, coupes, revolts & inter-tribal conflicts. Shi'ites v Sunni, and vice-versa, and, of course, everyone v Druze.
I'll come back in a short while to explain 'the Druze', a most interesting people in the Middle East.
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