Palestine and Israel | PUNT ROAD END | Richmond Tigers Forum
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Palestine and Israel

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toothless said:
Why isnt this outraged/condemned worldwide?
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Is this any different to the comments that have been put out by ISIS, Hamas, Hezbollah etc etc in recent years?
One could couch the words in more moderate or flowery terms, but it's simply nothing more than. If you pricks *smile* with us, then we're gunna *smile* you over so bad you won't believe what happened, simply because we can. If anyone else is foolish enough to be standing in the way, then we'll go over the top of you too.
Humans happily *smile* up other humans, because that's what we do best, sharing n being nice is for gimps. Don't like it bad luck, just get out the way 'coz we're coming through. For thousands upon thousands of years.
 
Sintiger said:
Many but there are many which are just about power or a political philosophy

1st and 2nd world wars
Crimean war
Boer War
Vietnam war
Korean War
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I'd argue almost all wars are about either land, resources or both, with other reasons being excuses/justifications.
 
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Wildride said:
I'd argue almost all wars are about either land, resources or both, with other reasons being excuses/justifications.
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Tend to agree... or at least it's both land/resources and religion as a pretext on top of that. I'd also throw in geopolitics/strategy but again you can decompose this to land/resources.
 
Saw Ehud Olmert interviewed on 7.30 report last night, fmr Isreali PM. I found it a very difficult watch. Palestinians are evil barbarians who kill babies for fun, Isrealis are pillars of virtue.
 
tigersnake said:
Saw Ehud Olmert interviewed on 7.30 report last night, fmr Isreali PM. I found it a very difficult watch. Palestinians are evil barbarians who kill babies for fun, Isrealis are pillars of virtue.
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Seriously??
Did a thirty second channel surf ( well maybe sixty second ) after watching a delayed recording of the 7 news tonight. Caught a snippet on ( shock horror ) Ingram on Fox where she was showing an interview of some reporter talking to a Hamas bloke n guess what. He was just as adamant that Israel wasn't entitled to exist. That every Jew deserved to be dead in a hurry, and best of all. That not only were Palestinians good at being martyred to the cause, they were happy to be martyrs.
Who'da thunk that two completely diametrically opposed people could think and believe exactly the same *smile*.
 
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TigerMasochist said:
Seriously??
Did a thirty second channel surf ( well maybe sixty second ) after watching a delayed recording of the 7 news tonight. Caught a snippet on ( shock horror ) Ingram on Fox where she was showing an interview of some reporter talking to a Hamas bloke n guess what. He was just as adamant that Israel wasn't entitled to exist. That every Jew deserved to be dead in a hurry, and best of all. That not only were Palestinians good at being martyred to the cause, they were happy to be martyrs.
Who'da thunk that two completely diametrically opposed people could think and believe exactly the same *smile*.
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Yes I saw a similar Hamas interview, maybe it was the same one. They are serious nutcases.

They are doing the Palestinian cause immeasurable harm.
 
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I still think, what could the Palestinians do to stop the erosion of their territory, the killing of their people by Israeli military and settlers?

Don't agree with what Hamas did but struggle to think of ways the Palestinians could have got back on the agenda. What would have been very different was that Hamas initially went over the border and attacked military targets, then they went on to civilian targets. If they had only attacked military targets it may have changed the narrative, but the problem there is that Hamas were not going to stop at military targets, they would always push on and go after civilians if they got the chance.

But if Israel has the right to defend itself, so do the Palestinians.

If Hamas killing civilians is an outrage, then so is Israel killing civilians.

If we are rightly outraged by the way Hamas pushed on and killed civilians, then we must also be rightly outraged when Israel bombs civilians in Gaza and ground forces kill civilians.

We should also be outraged by the settlers shooting civilians in the West Bank while the Israeli military look on and do nothing, and this has been going on for years.

There has to be justice for both sides of this conflict, but that looks a long way off.

DS
 
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DavidSSS said:
I still think, what could the Palestinians do to stop the erosion of their territory, the killing of their people by Israeli military and settlers?

Don't agree with what Hamas did but struggle to think of ways the Palestinians could have got back on the agenda. What would have been very different was that Hamas initially went over the border and attacked military targets, then they went on to civilian targets. If they had only attacked military targets it may have changed the narrative, but the problem there is that Hamas were not going to stop at military targets, they would always push on and go after civilians if they got the chance.

But if Israel has the right to defend itself, so do the Palestinians.

If Hamas killing civilians is an outrage, then so is Israel killing civilians.

If we are rightly outraged by the way Hamas pushed on and killed civilians, then we must also be rightly outraged when Israel bombs civilians in Gaza and ground forces kill civilians.

We should also be outraged by the settlers shooting civilians in the West Bank while the Israeli military look on and do nothing, and this has been going on for years.

There has to be justice for both sides of this conflict, but that looks a long way off.

DS
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There is an article in The Age today by Joel Burnie, who is the executive manager of the Australia/Israel and Jewish affairs council.
It starts by the saying the war was precipitated by "Hamas' unprovoked orgy of mass murder ..." and talks about the upswing in anti semiticism.
An orgy of mass murder it certainly was but unprovoked it certainly wasn't. That is not for one moment justifying it and the barbarity of it. Nor is it justifying anti semiticism or racism of any kind.
This is the narrative that disturbs me. These articles and opinion pieces, of which there are many, completely ignore the grievances of the Palestinians. Grievances that are based on the Israel being in contravention of UN resolutions. A recent Amnesty International report was scathing of the treatment of Palestinians by the State of Israel.
It is as if the only thing that has happened is the Hamas attack.
Even the statement put out by all the living ex Prime Ministers (excluding Paul Keating) confirmed a commitment to the 2 state solution but completely ignored that Israel's actions, particularly in relation to the building of homes on land on the West Bank, flouts the very basis of that agreement. How can it be supported on one hand and those actions be ignored on the other? I would not have minded that letter if it had included that Israel should stop the siege of Gaza and comply with the requirements under the UN resolutions.
 
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They treat the Palestinians like crap because they are under the yoke of Hamas who is funded by Iran . Until they become a peaceful self funded nation they shall have to suffer the sins of Hamas.
 
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Tigaman said:
They treat the Palestinians like crap because they are under the yoke of Hamas who is funded by Iran . Until they become a peaceful self funded nation they shall have to suffer the sins of Hamas.
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So whats your reasoning for those that live in the West Bank getting exactly the same treatment. Hamas do not control or lead attacks from the West Bank.
 
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mrposhman said:
So whats your reasoning for those that live in the West Bank getting exactly the same treatment. Hamas do not control or lead attacks from the West Bank.
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West Bank is administered by Israel therefore keeping Hamas out but it is still a hotbed of discontent. The whole lot of them have been at odds since Moses was a boy & in hundred years time they will be still at each other throats unless some one nukes the place.
 
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Tigaman said:
West Bank is administered by Israel therefore keeping Hamas out but it is still a hotbed of discontent. The whole lot of them have been at odds since Moses was a boy & in hundred years time they will be still at each other throats unless some one nukes the place.
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But you said that they treat the palestinians like crap because they are controlled by Hamas who are controlled by Ira n. That IS NOT the case in the West Bank
 
mrposhman said:
But you said that they treat the palestinians like crap because they are controlled by Hamas who are controlled by Ira n. That IS NOT the case in the West Bank
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They are Palestinians full stop. You cannot change a Tigers stripes.
 
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Tigaman said:
Look after your own but is this happening by Hamas ?

www.dailymail.co.uk

The Hamas terrorist billionaires who live in marble-floored mansions

In the years since taking control over the coastal strip, Hamas's leaders have profited off the misery of the Gazan people, with some massing huge fortunes.
www.dailymail.co.uk www.dailymail.co.uk
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I haven’t seen anyone on this site defending Hamas.

I do however understand how extremist views have been taken on in both the West Bank and Gaza. When you treat people like *smile* and you take away their basic human rights and leave them with no hope there will always be an element who fight back.

The best way to weaken Hamas is not to bomb the *smile* out of innocent people, or to treat humans as sub human on their own land, it is to provide them with hope. The best way to do that is to seriously negotiate the two state solution.
 
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