Palestine and Israel

[FightingFury]

Re: Not Good News From Israel

Yes, I hope there are some Islams here that are happy to practice their religion here as well as live the Aussie way, and enjoy the lifestyle we lead...they are not doing enough to rid their own religion of the extremist and hatred that many of their fellow Islams are practicing, right here in Australia.

Why do you think they are living in Australia for??
To start and lead a better life away from the threat of war and subsequent suffering would be my bet.
Just because perhaps a first generation migrant muslim don't enjoy a fag and a few pots and talk to you about how crap Richmond are doesn't make them 'not enjoy the lifestyle we lead' they just have and enjoy a different culture and custom to enjoy........far away from the threat of the terror in the homeland that threatens their loved ones.

Can you refresh me on where the Jewish protests and condemnation of their very own extremists has taken place in any of our capitals??

 

[tigersnake]

Re: Not Good News From Israel

thats a pretty fair bet I'd say.

 

[pahoffm]

Re: Not Good News From Israel

Can you refresh me on where the Jewish protests and condemnation of their very own extremists has taken place in any of our capitals??

Well as you've read I've certainly had a few words To say about every religions' extremists.

As for Jewish extremists, well the only difference between Jewish extremists & Islamic ones is that at least the Islamic ones will do their own fighting.

 

[Liverpool]

Re: Not Good News From Israel

Antman/Struggletown/LegendsOf1980,

Both of you keep saying I'm only quoting from "radical Islamic leaders"....and yes, they are radical, but they are leaders of Islamic countries which have a large bearing on the future of Islamic-Western/Christian/Jewish relations.

They do - but stop generalising and saying every Muslim in the world wants to wipe out every other religion there is.

Antman,
I haven't said EVERY Muslim in the world wants to wipe out everyone/everything.
I have admitted on just about every post about this topic that there ARE 'moderate Islams' out there...but the main focus of Islam, around the world, is to wipe out Israel and then Christianity/Western ideals.
And what I'm saying is that it isn't some extremist/radical backyard mufti saying this because he is pissed-off about something....these views of hatred, anti-Jewish/Christian/Western are spruiked by the actual leaders of many Islamic countries.
These views from the Governments, through conferences, media appearances, and prayer sittings, must have some influence over the curriculum taught in schools, the teachings in mosques, and the leniency shown towards extremist/terrorist groups within these countries, as well as the economic and military support handed out to support such groups.

Example: Iran and Syria helping Hezbollah out military-wise and economically. Lebanon letting Hezbollah become an active armed force within their borders.

Its like Tim Watson said about Essendon:
The fish rots from the head.

If the Islamic community were so dedicated to want peace and eliminate terrorism worldwide, groups like al-Quaeda, Hezbollah, Hamas, Islamic Jihad, etc would not exist, would not get half the support they get, and certainly not in the advanced form many of these groups are in.

Liverpool, does this mean you believe all Catholics are terrorists because the IRA is? Or all caucasian people racist because the KKK is? I didn't think you would.
'Moderate' Islamic leaders do condone extremists, unfortunately that doesn't sell newspapers or rate on tv. Should the Pope or any priest continually have to defend their religion everytime the IRA strike? It's one example, I know, but reverse the roles. Muslims here just want to live their lives, like we all do. (Except the militants, but that is the individual).

Legends,
I know what you're trying to say mate...but there is a vast difference.
The IRA's aim was to create a united Ireland and to get England out of Northern Ireland.
They had a policy to only attack British government officials or military, and to also not carry out any bombings in Scotland or Wales.
The Islamic extremist groups around the world don't have any such policies. They will blow themselves up and whoever is there, whether thats fellow Islams even, civilians, anyone...they don't care.
More Iraqi civilians have been killed from extremist groups and sectarian death squads, than from the US and Allied forces....but that also doesn't make popular news for the leftist newspapers out there trying to condemn the actions of countries in the Middle east, such as Australia.
Anyway, like I said mate...I'm sure there are some Muslims who are happy to co-exist....I AGREE WITH YOU!!!!
How many times do I have to say it???? :
But when I turn on the TV next....I don't want to see 20,000 Lebanese out there protesting against Israel bombing their country...i want to see 40,000 Lebanese out there condemning the Lebanese government for letting a terrorist organisation take over a portion of their country, and bring about the crisis and loss of life we are seeing at the moment.
Then I'll believe that there are more Islams here who want peace and are happy to co-exist with everyone, instead of the view I have now.

I re-read your whole post above again regarding the statements from the meeting of Islamic heads of state and still can find nothing anti-Jewish or anti-semitic. Israel is not even mentioned! Do you even read the stuff you post? Or do you just assume that because its an Islamic council they must be saying lets blow everyone up.
Lets look at what was actually said.
“We must help to rebuild Lebanon and Palestine. We must address the humanitarian situation."
OK
“We must play a more proactive role in the present conflict and show preparedness to contribute forces for peacekeeping operations under the United Nations banner. "
OK
The Prime Minister also called on leaders of Islamic countries to deliberate on and address the Middle East issue in its totality, adding this was no longer religious or sectarian issue but one on humanity. "
Don't see any anti-Israeli or anti-semitic pro-terrorist propaganda there.
So we have some Islamic countries getting together, and saying lets do what we can for peace in the region, provide peacekeepers, and lets do this NOT because we are Islamic but because it is a humanitarian issue.
However you read all this as THREATENING. Because Islamic leaders could never say anything positive or nice I suppose.

No, I think you misunderstood...or I worded it wrong.
What I was getting at was,a nd I did say this in my last post:

Yes, of course any collective action by countries with heads of state that want "Israel wiped off the map" (Iran)...that 'Islams should unite for a final victory' (Malaysia)...we have Indonesia with it's weak handling of the Jemmah Islamiah's "spiritual leader", Abu Bashir, I find threatening

It wasn't actually what they SAID at the Islamic Council meeting that I found threatening.
I thought it was quite hypocritical all the same that they expected an unconditional ceasefire since it was Hezbollah that decided to border-raid Israel and kidnap Israeli citizens. And quite arrogant that they were demanding this unconditional ceasefire considering Hezbollah have used such ceasefires in the past to gain strength and re-group.
A pity the Council wasn't convened as soon as the Hezbollah kidnapped the soldiers, and for the Council to demand Hezbollah return them unharmed, then we might not have had a crisis at all.
What WAS threatening that some of the leaders at the Islamic Council have such a perverted idea to eradicate Jews or wipe Israel off the map, some even contemplating nuclear war to complete their extremist agendas...and here they all are together.
That to me is quite threatening.

You would not know - again you do not know any Muslim people, and you have not been to a muslim country. And yet you claim to know what 1 billion people round the world think. I am white, blue-eyed, light brown haired. I am an atheist. I have travelled through muslim and other countries. And yet in any muslim country I have been to I have been welcomed into people's homes, offered food, often by poor people who would earn less in a year than I do in a month.
These people were muslim. They knew I was not muslim. And yet they were happy to offer me whatever they had. This is why I have hope for the future of mankind because we are all human, and many of us on the planet recognise that.

Thats all very comforting Antman.
I wonder what their view would have been if you told them you were a Jew?
Anyways...
Its like playing a bloody record over and over again on this thread!!!
And here I go again:
I AM SURE THERE ARE SOME MODERATE ISLAMS WHO ARE HAPPY TO CO-EXIST!
Hopefully that will be the last time I have to repeat myself.
And again, I'll add that unless these moderate Islams become more hardline against the extremist views of the terrorist groups, and even more importantly, tougher on their Governments who want to destroy Israel...then these moderate Islams will not matter, I'm afraid.

At least here you do acknowledge there is a moderate Islam - this is a big step for you. Congratulations. Many muslims do speak out and in some countries they pay for this severely. In other countries there is an ongoing and robust debate about how far Islam and Sharia law for example should penetrate into civil society.

Congratulations?
Please Antman, don't be sarcastic....on not one post ever on this forum I have said ALL Islams are out to destroy humanity. And I have continually stated that there ARE some moderate Islams out there.
Moderate Islams who do speak-out do pay for it severely.....why would that be?

Yes, I hope there are some Islams here that are happy to practice their religion here as well as live the Aussie way, and enjoy the lifestyle we lead...they are not doing enough to rid their own religion of the extremist and hatred that many of their fellow Islams are practicing, right here in Australia.

Why do you think they are living in Australia for??
To start and lead a better life away from the threat of war and subsequent suffering would be my bet.
Just because perhaps a first generation migrant muslim don't enjoy a fag and a few pots and talk to you about how crap Richmond are doesn't make them 'not enjoy the lifestyle we lead' they just have and enjoy a different culture and custom to enjoy........far away from the threat of the terror in the homeland that threatens their loved ones.
Can you refresh me on where the Jewish protests and condemnation of their very own extremists has taken place in any of our capitals??

I agree.
Therefore, why are there 13 Islams facing court at the moment on terrorism charges?
Why are there Lebanese protesting and hurling things at the Prime Minister's car, if they are here in Australia to escape such violence?
Why are there muftis preaching anti-semitism and telling their followers they cannot be friends with non-Islams, if they are here to co-exist away from persecution and threats that they suffered in their homeland?

One such mufti said this in Sydney:
There's no such thing as a Muslim having a non-Muslim friend, so a non-Muslim could be your associate but they can't be a friend. They're not your friend because they don't understand your religious principles and they cannot because they don't understand your faith.

Sorry for 'trawling' the internet for such quotes.....I just wish it was as easy to find quotes from Islamic leaders with a more liberal view towards Jews and the West, however, they are a much rarer breed.

 

[Legends of 2017]

Re: Not Good News From Israel

Antman/Struggletown/LegendsOf1980,

Both of you keep saying I'm only quoting from "radical Islamic leaders"....and yes, they are radical, but they are leaders of Islamic countries which have a large bearing on the future of Islamic-Western/Christian/Jewish relations.

While I do condemn the extremism of some Islams who promote violence as the answer to their own agendas (Bin-Laden, al-Zarqawi, etc).....I quote and condemn the Prime Minister's of various countries who attended the Islamic Council meeting even more, as they have a more pronounced influence over the Islamic population than any mufti or extremist.

If these leaders are prepared to say such anti-Jewish things in the public forum, then what hope is there of peace between Islam and Jews?
How can we, in the Western world, have faith in that these Islamic countries are just as determined to rid the world of terrorist groups, such as al-Quaeda, when the leaders of these countries are saying things that more or less back the policies of these extremist groups?

Antman,
No...I haven't lived in an Islamic country, and I don't wish to.
I don't have to go to Antarctica to know its going to be cold there.

Legends/Struggletown,
There are millions of Islams/Muslims around the world.
You say that many of these Muslims are happy to live side by side with Christians/Western ideals.
My answer is a ...."maybe".
If the extremist lobby of the Islamic religion is the minority, then why aren't the majority of Islams protesting just as loud as we are, against these extremists?
Why are countries like Iran, Syria, Lebanon, Malaysia, Indonesia...supporting such extremism, if extremism is the minority?
Where are the protest rallies from the Lebanese denouncing the way Hezbollah have taken over the southern part of Lebanon?
While it would be nice to think that extremism is in the minority, and while it would be fantastic to think that one day Islams and Jews (for example) could live in harmony, I'm afraid the hatred shown towards the West by Islamic countries and their leaders is far too ingrained...and the power of the 'moderate Islam' too weak...to make a difference.
Yes, I hope there are some Islams here that are happy to practice their religion here as well as live the Aussie way, and enjoy the lifestyle we lead...they are not doing enough to rid their own religion of the extremist and hatred that many of their fellow Islams are practicing, right here in Australia.

Liverpool, does this mean you believe all Catholics are terrorists because the IRA is? Or all caucasian people racist because the KKK is? I didn't think you would.
'Moderate' Islamic leaders do condone extremists, unfortunately that doesn't sell newspapers or rate on tv. Should the Pope or any priest continually have to defend their religion everytime the IRA strike? It's one example, I know, but reverse the roles. Muslims here just want to live their lives, like we all do. (Except the militants, but that is the individual).

Oh come on.
Do you miss his point, or deliberately choose to do so.

Most Christian people & governments deplore and would gladly & publicly denounce the terrorist activities of the IRA, and the evil doings of the KKK.

It is the inherent responsibilty of Islamic leaders too, moderates as well, to denounce terrorist activities of extremist Islamic groups.

Pakistan will do it when its terrorists blow up a mosque in the Kashmir.
They can do it when it is 9/11, and the U.S. is at stake.
So why can't the Pakistan leader denounce Hezbollah.
Too scared to methinks.

As for Lebanon, I know what you are saying, but this is from my limited knowledge. Syria occupied Lebanon, they armed Hezbollah to the point where they are more powerful than Lebanon's military. The Lebanese government didn't want trouble for it's people, having been through so much, they turned a blind eye to it, knowing to put them down would be bloody and costly, as well as facing Syria again. Please correct me if I'm wrong on that count anyone please.

On this paragraph no one disputes what you are saying. Yes, the Lebanese government chose to turn a blind eye to evil for their own convenience.
A damned poor government I say.
They did a deal to turn a blind eye on Hezbollah, now Lebanon is paying for it.
The Lebanese leaders should be apologising to their people for failing in their primary duty of national security.

Mate I don't miss his point or deliberately choose to do so. Maybe you missed MY point? If you read a few of my posts in reply to Liverpool you'll find I usually agree with him. On this point I don't. He is judging a whole religion on the actions and words of a very few. I merely pointed out what about if the roles were reversed. I don't remember Pope John Paul II condemning every IRA terrorist attack, but I'm sure he did. It merely wasn't reported in the media every time! Same here.
My limited personal experience of Muslims, I was in  Egypt in 2004. There were a couple of Jewish Americans on the tour I was on. This was the same time that Israeli soldiers accidently shot and killed Egyptian soldiers near the border (This was accidental and I'm not trying to inflame things here by the way). Everywhere in Egypt, the locals were nothing but friendly to all of us. They were upset by the incident but they wanted was peace. They condemned bin laden and the likes, however there were no news cameras there to report on it. Just because they didn't make the news, doesn't mean it didn't happen.
For the record, I think a lot of people are hypocritical when it comes to protesting. They are quick to denounce Israel and everyones favourite whipping boy, the US. I just shake my head when I see them on tv saying how the Iraqis are suffering (they are) but don't remember any protests against Hussein and the like. To me they are just protests of convenience.
Phantom, I found your history of the mid-east enlightening and interesting. Thank you for that.
In regards to your last response to my post about Lebanon, I wanted anyone to correct me if I was wrong, so I'll ask you to correct any of the following. (As I said, I'm not sure of the facts). Lebanon was in a civil war from 1975 to recently. Israel has invaded it (1982 I think) as has Syria. Israel was only there for a short time. Syria occupied it a lot longer. In the time that Syria (a more powerful and better equipped armed forces) was there, they helped Hezbollah become a power in the country. Can you please tell me what a country that has been devastated by years of civil war and being occupied by a foreign power was meant to do? From what I have read, Hezbollah is much more powerful than Lebanons army.
I'm not Lebanese, anti-Israeli, anti-jewish or anti-muslim, I just have a lot of questions. I agree that Israel has a right to protect itself and that Hezbollah have a lot to answer for. If I was Israeli soldier, I would be gratified in the knowledge that my country would do whatever it takes to get me back.
I've rambled on enough for now, sorry everyone  . I don't mean to p!ss anyone off, just wanted to get a bit off my chest.
Cheers

 

[pahoffm]

Re: Not Good News From Israel

Just as an aside, this week saw the passing of another Tisha B'Av.
Tisha B'Av is the 5th day of the month of Av, in the Jewish calendar.

It is a day of special remembrance for Jewish people.
On the 5th of Av:
1. The 1st & 2nd Temples were destroyed by the Babylonians & Romans respectively.
2. The Jews were expelled from England in 13th century.
3. The Spanish Inquisition began in the 15th century.
4. The Nazi death camp, Auschwitz, officially opened for business.

Yep, a lucky day in Jewish history.  

 

[pahoffm]

Re: Not Good News From Israel

Yep Legends, fair enough.

I understand. Sometimes the frustration builds inside then, like Vesuvius, it just blows.

 

[Legends of 2017]

Re: Not Good News From Israel

Yep Legends, fair enough.

I understand. Sometimes the frustration builds inside then, like Vesuvius, it just blows.

No problems Phantom :thumbsup

 

[CarnTheTiges]

Re: Not Good News From Israel

In terms of Lebanon, wasn't their late leader: Rafiki (apologies if I've mispelt or got the name wrong entirely) trying to get rid of Hezbollah, because he saw it as evidence of Syrian influence on his country? For his efforts he was murdered by means of a car bomb. I don't know if it has ever been conclusively proven, but it is believed to be the work of Shiite extremists. The bottom line, and I know people here are going to disgree with me, is that if you don't attack Israel it won't attack you. If the Arab nations around the country would just acknowledge Israel's right to exist and respect it's borders the entire region would immediately become much more stable and prosperous and maybe they could root out some of the rogue terrorist organsations that have been allowed to fester in the region.

 

[Liverpool]

Re: Not Good News From Israel

In terms of Lebanon, wasn't their late leader: Rafiki (apologies if I've mispelt or got the name wrong entirely) trying to get rid of Hezbollah, because he saw it as evidence of Syrian influence on his country? For his efforts he was murdered by means of a car bomb. I don't know if it has ever been conclusively proven, but it is believed to be the work of Shiite extremists. The bottom line, and I know people here are going to disgree with me, is that if you don't attack Israel it won't attack you. If the Arab nations around the country would just acknowledge Israel's right to exist and respect it's borders the entire region would immediately become much more stable and prosperous and maybe they could root out some of the rogue terrorist organsations that have been allowed to fester in the region.

Good stuff mate! :clap

 

[pahoffm]

Re: Not Good News From Israel

In terms of Lebanon, wasn't their late leader: Rafiki (apologies if I've mispelt or got the name wrong entirely) trying to get rid of Hezbollah, because he saw it as evidence of Syrian influence on his country? For his efforts he was murdered by means of a car bomb. I don't know if it has ever been conclusively proven, but it is believed to be the work of Shiite extremists. The bottom line, and I know people here are going to disgree with me, is that if you don't attack Israel it won't attack you. If the Arab nations around the country would just acknowledge Israel's right to exist and respect it's borders the entire region would immediately become much more stable and prosperous and maybe they could root out some of the rogue terrorist organsations that have been allowed to fester in the region.

Well done CTT.

 

[crackertiger]

Re: Not Good News From Israel

I just can't understand why the majority of the Lebanese population are still supporting an organisation (Hezbollah) that is prevoking this war which is resulting in the destruction of their own country??

I do believe Israel's agression is far too excessive in return, however the reality is they have a right to defend themselves and they will not stop until Hezbollah stop their bombing campaign. There needs to be an imediate cease fire from both sides.

It's sensless death and destruction if you ask me!

Protesters in Melbourne were carring posters in support of their Hezbollah leader and condemming Israel for it's agression (which is fair enough imho), but they adore the group (Hezbollah) that is partially and or probably at fault for prevoking this death and destruction.

Israel's bombing of civilians is totally unexceptable in my view, but so is the Hezbollah for hiding it's solders amongst civilains, in particular women and children.

Hezbollah have a hidden agenda in my opinion, they are using the death of their own civilians to gain simpathy and support for their campain agianst Israel. They would be hoping that this sitution will unite fellow supporters that Israel has no right to exist and prevoking a bigger war involving other Muslim nations. The Israelis are not going to pack up and leave. The only way the Hezbollah could get rid of Israel is via a bigger war in the future.

Why else would you they do it?

Why else would they continue to let it happen?

I am no expert, thats just my opinion of this situation.

 

[CarnTheTiges]

Re: Not Good News From Israel

What concerned me about the protest that cracker mentioned was that there were young children, too young to really be able to form a clear opinion about the entire conflict, carrying large posters of Nasrallah (the leader of Hezbollah), this bloke is on the same scale as Bin Laden and probably every bit as fanatical and insane. It would appear that large sections of the Lebanese community both here and abroad regard Lebanon's government as being Hezbollah and that is genuinely a matter of concern, it is also worrying that many are asking for Hezbollah to be recognised as a legitimate non terrorist organisation. They make the proviso that this is for their political and charitable arms, not the military, but personally I don't believe that they can be divorced.

 

[Legends of 2017]

Re: Not Good News From Israel

Another question. Is Nasrallah Lebanese?

 

[pahoffm]

Re: Not Good News From Israel

Hassan Nasrallah
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Sayyed Hassan Nasrallah (Arabic: حسن نصرالله‎) (b. August 31, 1960, Burj Hammud, Beirut, Lebanon)[1], is the current Secretary General of the Lebanese Islamist party Hezbollah.

Nasrallah lived in South Beirut with his wife Fatima Yassin (who comes from the Lebanese village of Al Abbasiyah)[2] and five children: Muhammad Hadi (d. 1997), Muhammad Jawad, Zeinab, Muhammad Ali and Muhammad Mahdi. In September 1997, his eldest son Muhammad Hadi was killed by Israeli forces in Jabal al-Rafei in southern Lebanon.[2]

In 1975, the civil war in Lebanon forced the 15 year old Nasrallah and his family to move to their ancestral home in the South Lebanese village of Al Bazuriyah.[1] [2] Here he joined the Amal Movement, a political group representing Shiites in Lebanon.[1] [2] After a period of Islamic study in Iraq he returned to Lebanon, where he studied at the school of Amal’s leader Sheikh Abbas al-Musawi, later being selected as Amal's political delegate in Beqaa, and making him a member of the central political office. After the Israeli invasion in 1982, Nasrallah joined Hezbollah to dedicate himself to the resistance of the Israeli occupation of southern Lebanon and the Bekaa Valley.[1]

Nasrallah is a devoted Muslim and has spent periods of his life studying at religious centres in Iraq. In the mid-1970s he moved to a Shiite Hawza (Islamic Seminary) in the Iraqi city of Najaf to study Qura’anic divine sciences [citation needed], completing the first stage of his studies in 1978 before being forced to leave by the Iraqi authorities [citation needed]. Despite his ongoing commitment to Hezbollah, in 1989 Nasrallah resumed his efforts to become a religious jurisprudent by moving to the sacred Iranian city of Qom to further his studies. Nasrallah believes that Islam holds the solution to the problems of any society, once saying, “With respect to us, briefly, Islam is not a simple religion including only praises and prayers, rather it is a divine message that was designed for humanity, and it can answer any question man might ask concerning his general and private life. Islam is a religion designed for a society that can revolt and build a state.” [citation needed]

Nasrallah said once in an interview that he reads many books, particularly the memoirs of political figures, including Ariel Sharon's autobiography, “Memoirs of Sharon” and Benjamin Netanyahu's A Place Under the Sun, with the intention of getting to know his enemies.[1] [2]


Leadership of Hezbollah
The neutrality of this section is disputed.
Please see the discussion on the talk page.

Nasrallah became the leader of Hezbollah after Israel assassinated the movement’s leader Abbas al-Musawi in 1992.[1] [2] Under Nasrallah's leadership, Hezbollah became a serious opponent of the Israel Defense Forces in Southern Lebanon, managing to improve the organization's military capabilities and increasing the killing rate to approximately two dozen Israeli soldiers per year[citation needed]. Hezbollah's terrorist campaigns of the late 1990s were believed to be one of the main factors that led to the Israeli decision to withdraw from Southern Lebanon in 2000, thus ending 18 years of occupation.[1] Consequently, Nasrallah is widely credited in Lebanon and the Arab world for ending the Israeli occupation in Southern Lebanon, something which has greatly bolstered the party's political standing within Lebanon.[citation needed]

Nasrallah also played a major role in a complex prisoner exchange deal between Israel and Hezbollah in 2004 [citation needed], resulting in hundreds of Palestinian and Hezbollah prisoners being freed and bodies returned to Lebanon. The agreement was described across the Arab world as a great victory for Hezbollah with Nasrallah being personally praised for achieving these gains [citation needed].

In the aftermath of the assassination of former Lebanese prime minister Rafiq al-Hariri the United Nations Security Council issued Resolution 1559 which called for the withdrawal of foreign forces from Lebanon. This referred chiefly to Syria, which had held suzerainty over Lebanon since its 1976 intervention in the country's nascent civil war. In response to UNSCR 1559, Nasrallah initiated several large demonstrations expressing support for the Syrian government. UNSCR 1559 also called for the "the disbanding and disarmament of all Lebanese and non-Lebanese militias" and "the extension of the control of the Government of Lebanon over all Lebanese territory." This referred directly to Hezbollah whose military wing, as an armed force not controlled by the Lebanese government, constitutes a militia. Hezbollah also maintains de facto control over parts of south Lebanon, preventing the Lebanese government from exercising a monopoly of force within the country and asserting its control over Lebanon's southern border with Israel.


As an orator
He is reputed internationally as an excellent speaker, capable of captivating audiences with both strong language and correct tone. He routinely cracks jokes in the midst of important political speeches, keeping in line with the sunnah of the Prophet to constantly smile..


2006 Israel-Lebanon conflict
His home and office were destroyed by Israeli bombing raids during the 2006 Israel-Lebanon conflict on July 14th 2006.

August 3, 2006: Hassan Nasrallah vowed to strike Tel Aviv in retaliation for Israel's bombardment of Lebanon's capital, Beirut. "If you hit Beirut, the Islamic resistance will hit Tel Aviv and is able to do that with God's help," Nasrallah said in a televised address. His forces were inflicting "maximum casualties" on Israeli ground troops." [3]


Views
Speaking at a graduation ceremony in Haret Hreik, Nasrallah announced on October 22, 2002: "if they [Jews] all gather in Israel, it will save us the trouble of going after them worldwide."[4][5] The New York Times qualifies this as "genocidal thinking"[6], whereas the New York Sun likens it to the 1992 Hezbollah statement, which vowed, "It is an open war until the elimination of Israel and until the death of the last Jew on earth."[7] Michael Rubin qualifies his goal as genocide too, quoting Nasrallah ruling out "co-existence with" the Jews or "peace", as "they are a cancer which is liable to spread again at any moment."[8] The Age quotes him like so: "There is no solution to the conflict in this region except with the disappearance of Israel."[9] Interviewed by CNN, Nasrallah expressed Hezbollah's reluctance to fight America, however, declaring readiness to respond if "someone launches an attack [...] We will not take rejection or humiliation."[10]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hassan_Nasrallah

Seems quite an intelligent man blinded by his own personal grief. It might be better for world peace if this man met his mortal end whilst pursuing his own personal & costly jihad (vengeance).

 

[crackertiger]

Re: Not Good News From Israel

Quite simply he is a racist!

He is obviously prepared to watch innocent people die for his campaign against Israel.

 

[FightingFury]

Re: Not Good News From Israel

Quite simply he is a racist!

He is obviously prepared to watch innocent people die for his campaign against Israel.

 

Clearly he has an agenda,but I'm guessing that when your son dies at the hands of someone you already dislike the ramifications become extreme.

 

[pahoffm]

Re: Not Good News From Israel

Chapter 6 - The Middle Eastern Conflict 1915 - now.
The Middle Eastern Wars, from the destruction of the Ottomon Empire to now. Looking at the development of the Arab Kingdoms. The resettlement of the Hebrews. The ensuing conflicts within & between the related groups.

As we've already covered conflicts & the setup of the various states within the Middle East between 1915 to 1948, I think I just may deal with what happened in and after 1948 as a consequence of the creation of the state of Israel.

The 1947 Partition
As said, in 1947 the UN Special Commission on Palestine (UNSCOP) recommended the partition of Palestine & was approved by the UN General Assembly. The UN determined that 60% of Palestine should be Arab territory. Half of the area around Galilee, the coastal strip from Haifa down to New Ashkelon and most of the Negev Desert in the south was Jewish territory. The whole of Jerusalem was deemed international territory. The Arabs had Gaza & the coastal Negev, Hebron & its surrounds, Samaria, and the other half of Galilee. The patition was accepted by the Jews but was rejected by the Arabs.

The 1948 War
Strangely, the majority of Palestine was not enough for the Arabs, and the Arab 'Liberation Army' occupied Galilee and attacked the Jewish Old City of Jerusalem.

The Arab League was made up of the combined armies from Egypt, Jordan, Iraq, Syria & Lebanon. So within days of Israel's creation, a new nation had to take on the armies of 5 nations. The Egyptian Army attacked through Gaza towards Tel Aviv & Jerusalem. The Jordanians & Iraqis attacked directly at Jerusalem. The Syrian & Lebanese armies attacked through Galilee towards the port of Haifa. The Israeli army was facing war on 3 fronts simultaneously. From May till June 1948 the Israeli state was hanging on by an extremely fine thread.

The hero for the Israelis was General Lord Orde Wingate, the previous head of British forces in Burma, who organised & trained the early Israeli Army (Haganah). He also brilliantly organised to keep the Iraq-Haifa oil pipeline open, keeping open the fuel supply.

Israeli air superiority was gained early and as a result the attack by the Arab League was repulsed. By November 1948, the Israelis had thrown the Arab armies out of nearly all of Israel. It was only when the Arabs threatened to blow up the entire city of Jerusalem that the Israelis called a ceasefire. The boundary was settled from June 1949.

President Chaim Weizman, 1949-52, encouraged an inflow of and integration of Jews from all over the world. There developed a new Hebraic official language called 'Ivrit', as well as co-operative villages (moshavot) and voluntary collectives (kibbutzim). There was a conquest of the desert, forestry, irrigation and drainage projects with the aid of foreign capital & economic aid.

In 1952, a reparations treaty with West Germany led to the payment of 3.5 billion DMs to the new Israel. It used the money to set up state of the art factories & industries that gave it a technological advantage over its Arab neighbours. In 1954 the Hebrew University was established in Jerusalem. But tensions were building. Britain handed over the Suez Canal to Egypt in 1954, and as a consequence Egypt decided to close the Suez canal to all shipping regardless of nationality, and blockade the southern Israeli port of Eilat.

In October 1956, in a limited action, the Israeli army struck at Egyptian forces in the Sinai peninsula. The British & French forces attacked the Egyptians at Port Said, Israel attacked the Egyptians through the Sinai. There was a mixed result. The Israelis comprehensively routed the Egyptian forces and captured the Sinai. However in true 'Gallipoli style' the British & French botched their side of operations on the Suez west bank. Although the port of Eilat was opened, the Suez Canal remained closed. The UN called a ceasefire in November.

1966-7 saw border incidents with Arab neighbours & acts of sabotage by a new group 'Al Fatah' led by a young Yassar Arafat.
Following the withdrawal of UN troops from Gaza, Egypt reannounced the blockade of Eilat and started concentrating troops on the Israeli border. Moishe Dayan, a distinguished General of the 1948 war, was appointed Minister of Defence. Anticipating the consequence of a military build up along its borders, on June 5th Israeli forces made a preemptive strike on the armies of Egypt, Syria & Jordan. Within 6 days the armies of these Arab countries had been totally routed. Israel's actions had prevented a long & costly war fought on Israeli soil.
A hasty ceasefire was hurriedly put together & signed by the Arabs which allowed Israel to hold all of its conquered territories being, the Sinai Peninsula, the Gaza Strip, Western Jordan & the Syrian Golan Height.
Incidentally, the 6-Day War was the first Middle Eastern War that clearly defined the US as a supporter of Israel and the USSR as the supporter of the Arabs.

Border skirmishes, especially along the Suez Canal continued. Isolated actions by the Arafat's PLO continued, and so did Israeli reprisals.

A new Arab military build up began mid-1973.
On Yom Kippur 1973, the holiest day of the Jewish calendar, where every Jew around the world fasts for 24 hours, both Syria & Egypt launched their invasions of Israel.

I'll intercede here with an anecdote of the 'Miracle of Golan'.
That Eve of Yom Kippur (Kol Nidrei), the Israeli army had stood down for leave all but 12 soldiers on the Golan Heights. There were 12 Israeli soldiers manning the whole of the most strategic position of the whole of the Middle East. (Whoever holds the Golan heights holds the Middle East.) At 1400hrs on October 6, the 137,000 strong Syrian army advanced towards the Golan Heights. It was confronted with the mass firepower of 12 Israeli soldiers. In possibly the greatest example of military incompetence ever shown, in the complete history of mankind, the Syrian commanding General decided to postpone his attack till the next day. That next day, he faced half the entire Israeli military forces. Had he advanced the evening before the war would have been fought deep in Israeli soil.

The Syrian attack reached the limit of its advance that night. By October 22nd, the Israeli army was within 14 miles of Damascus, the Syrian capital.

The Egyptians began their attack on Israel 15 minutes after the Syrians, at 1415hrs on October 6th. The limit of their advance was about 10 miles deep across the Suez Canal by October 8th. By October 24th, both the Egyptian 2nd & 3rd Armies had been surrounded, and the Israeli army was just 40 miles from Cairo, the Egyptian capital.
The Arabs hurriedl went into ceasefire mode again.
The oil crisis of 1974, instituted by the Arabs, was to do more damage, which were to create unstable economic conditions in the world for a decade.
The UN entered to police buffer zones.

In 1971, Jordan, having enough of the Palestinians, decided to disarm those in Jordan. By 1974 they had decided to expel all Palestinians from Jordanian territory. In 1974, they relinquished any claim to the western bank of the Jordan river, in favour of the Palestinians. (It was Israeli occupied territory.)

June-July 1976 saw the hijacking of an Israeli passenger plane by PLO terrorists to Entebbe (Uganda) and liberation of the hostages by Israeli commandoes.

June 1981 also saw the destruction of the Iraqi nuclear reactor near Bagdad by the Israelis.

The expulsion of the Palestinians from Jordan into Lebanon had led to fights between the Lebanese army and the Palestinians.
In 1975-76, Civil war erupted in Lebanon between Christians & Muslims. Syria invaded Lebanon, despite the bringing in of UN multinational peace troops.
1978-81 saw the continuation of hostilities in Lebanon and the commencement of rockets being launched into Israel.
In 1982, Israel invaded Lebanon. The Lebanese President, the Christian Gemayel, was murdered by the PLO. His successor, his brother, orders the massacre of Palestinians held in PLO camps in Sabra & Chatila. The Israeli army should should have stopped the massacres immediately, but did so too late.
In 1983 the Syrians launched bomb attacks on UN forces, 230 US Marines & 58 French paratroopers are killed.
By 1985, Israel withdrew from Lebanon.
In 1987, the Syrians invaded & effectively took over Lebanon until they were ordered to withdraw by the UN in 2004.

That brings us up to the present.

 

[AngryAnt]

Re: Not Good News From Israel

What concerned me about the protest that cracker mentioned was that there were young children, too young to really be able to form a clear opinion about the entire conflict, carrying large posters of Nasrallah (the leader of Hezbollah), this bloke is on the same scale as Bin Laden and probably every bit as fanatical and insane. It would appear that large sections of the Lebanese community both here and abroad regard Lebanon's government as being Hezbollah and that is genuinely a matter of concern, it is also worrying that many are asking for Hezbollah to be recognised as a legitimate non terrorist organisation. They make the proviso that this is for their political and charitable arms, not the military, but personally I don't believe that they can be divorced.

If I were Lebanese I would feel pretty strongly about Israeli bombing and now re-occupation by Israel. I would also be questioning the motives or at least the strategy that led to the current war and would not be uncritical of Hezbollah at the same time.

I took my kids to an anti-war demo prior to the start of the US invasion of Iraq - I don't think we can be too critical of families that do this as it is also their relatives and friends suffering in Lebanon and it is a bit much to deny people this right.

There is a difference between Nasrallah and Bin Laden - Nasrallah confines his activities to the liberation of Palestine as he sees it and does not so far suggest Al Qaeda style front action across the globe. Phantom's post is interesting because it suggests why Nasrallah and Hezbollah are popular in Lebanon - they succeeded in freeing Southern Lebanon from Israeli occupation through guerilla style actions. I believe that they are the only armed organisation that has been successful against the IDF since the creation of Israel - Phantom might confirm this.

 

[AngryAnt]

Re: Not Good News From Israel

Hassan Nasrallah
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Interesting Phantom, thanks for posting it.