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Palestine and Israel

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Hmm, when someone starts to bring up the nazis you know they are desperate.
Hey David, *smile* off, you sniper.
You're just trying to stir the pot even more. So give it a spell..
If you want to have a go at me, then do so.

You’ve been watching me and Sin today, you got your wish. Having other people at loggerheads and you sit there having a chortle in the background. You are weak as *smile*.

So now here it is.
Grow up, be an adult. Don’t be a weak bastard and tell lies. Don’t try to draw other people in.
 
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Let’s leave it at that.

There is one thing we can all agree on I hope and expect and that is the wish for peace. I listened to a podcast a while back featuring two young women, one Palestinian from East Jerusalem and the other Israeli Jew from west Jerusalem. They are friends
They disagree on some things but agree on one thing which is that what is needed as a start is better leaders.
Yep, agreed.
There are stories of long held friendships between some Palestinians an Israelis. It’s a pity people of that ilk, that strength of character and courage aren’t able to get in a position to help change. Yet. Not an easy task t9 actually achieve such a position and a hell of a lot of work in front of them to make worthwhile change.

Somehow there needs to be a clean out of the militant rabble within the Palestinian camps. How? Or is that possible? I’m not sure, But they won’t stand idly by and let the doves take charge.

The same as Israel. Too many hawks, too many far right wing politicians and political parties. What will change? Or will it?
No doubt, on that side of the fence, people only want a peaceful for themselves and families. The same as the Palestinians who cherish their families (exceptions in the minority) want.

Both sides have experienced loss of life and injuries to families and friends. Destruction, terror, trauma, mental and psychological scarring.
Will the remaining people be able to overcome all that. Or is going to affect the next generation as well.

Whatever happens, it’s going to be a very big task. And I think it’s got a way to go to reach a conclusion to where it’s at now.
 
Yep, agreed.
There are stories of long held friendships between some Palestinians an Israelis. It’s a pity people of that ilk, that strength of character and courage aren’t able to get in a position to help change. Yet. Not an easy task t9 actually achieve such a position and a hell of a lot of work in front of them to make worthwhile change.

Somehow there needs to be a clean out of the militant rabble within the Palestinian camps. How? Or is that possible? I’m not sure, But they won’t stand idly by and let the doves take charge.

The same as Israel. Too many hawks, too many far right wing politicians and political parties. What will change? Or will it?
No doubt, on that side of the fence, people only want a peaceful for themselves and families. The same as the Palestinians who cherish their families (exceptions in the minority) want.

Both sides have experienced loss of life and injuries to families and friends. Destruction, terror, trauma, mental and psychological scarring.
Will the remaining people be able to overcome all that. Or is going to affect the next generation as well.

Whatever happens, it’s going to be a very big task. And I think it’s got a way to go to reach a conclusion to where it’s at now.
Logic tells us that it is more likely in Israel than Palestine or in Gaza at least.
There is no functioning government at the moment in Gaza and whatever authority Hamas operatives have would probably be in certain areas only rather than across the board. It’s hard to rise up against against something that doesn’t really exist at the moment. Clearly there are some operatives there but there is no way Hamas is controlling Gaza now, not like before. If you think about the people power movements elsewhere they had an organising force and sometimes a figurehead. In the middle east Arab springs there were mass demonstrations. The conditions in Gaza don’t really make that possible I would think. At least that’s what I suspect is the case.
At least in Israel they have a functioning government and a process for changing government and decisions. We have already seen demonstrations there and it is actually a strange mix. You have the traditional peace activists, of which there are many in Israel, and then you have those affected by the kidnappings and those supporting a deal to get the hostages returned.
That is my main hope, not that I hold out much of it. That there is too much pressure on the government internally within Israel and at least the first step of a ceasefire of some decent duration can occur. If that happens we have to hope that some *smile* in Gaza doesn’t lob a missile over the fence.
 
. If that happens we have to hope that some *smile* in Gaza doesn’t lob a missile over the fence.
Isn't that what just happened in Rafah the other day???? Hamas lobbed a handful of missiles at some Israeli base n then promptly announced they accepted a ceasefire they'd worked out with Egypt n Qatar. Knackers Bibi simply turned around n said yeah, nah. Not happening n started lobbing a heap of kabooms back into Rafah.
Caught a snippet on CNN while channel surfing n some septic ex general reckons Hamas played it super smart by stalling for time n forcing Israel to over react again so they could make Israel look like total arseholes to the peace loving western world by smashing the innocent Palestinian victims again. Reckons that Hamas don't give a stuff how many Palestinians get smeared in the process, it's now all about turning everyone against Israel.
 
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Isn't that what just happened in Rafah the other day???? Hamas lobbed a handful of missiles at some Israeli base n then promptly announced they accepted a ceasefire they'd worked out with Egypt n Qatar. Knackers Bibi simply turned around n said yeah, nah. Not happening n started lobbing a heap of kabooms back into Rafah.
Caught a snippet on CNN while channel surfing n some septic ex general reckons Hamas played it super smart by stalling for time n forcing Israel to over react again so they could make Israel look like total arseholes to the peace loving western world by smashing the innocent Palestinian victims again. Reckons that Hamas don't give a stuff how many Palestinians get smeared in the process, it's now all about turning everyone against Israel.
Of course.
Hamas, the PLO and their masters Iran play the PR game beautifully.
Bomb, kill, slaughter, rape and kidnap are hallmarks of their trade in terror. Then they play the victim when retribution is at hand.
Hide behind innocent civilians, under schools and hospitals, pop out and do it again. Then back down the hole. Of course their sympathisers refuse to admit to them using their own people as humans shields! Or schools and hospitals as cover.
They just built 700klm’s of tunnels at a cost of $billions just to play hide and seek in.

And people wonder why Israel is hellbent on eradicating Hamas. If there was a permanent ceasefire and the war stopped, no one with an ounce of sense would expect Hamas terrorists to disarm and go find a job.
They’d get bored with peace after 5 minutes. They’d rearm and carry on business as usual.

They were negotiating temporary ceasefire and release of hostages. While that’s going on Hamas showed their good faith by lobbing missiles and mortars at border crossings. Now Israel has secured those, slowing up aid coming in.
Guess who suffers. Guess who will be bleating that Gazans are lacking aid, are starving, have no fuel etc.
You couldn’t make this *smile* up.
I’m positive Hamas doesn’t want this to end. They want to drag it out as long as they can. Regardless of their own people suffering. They don’t give a *smile*.
The more of the civilian Palestinians that die does Hamas cause the more good.

Even the Palestinian sympathisers and those knucklehead student protesters should be able to see that.
But obviously something within their brain refuses to let common sense thoughts get through
 
Isn't that what just happened in Rafah the other day???? Hamas lobbed a handful of missiles at some Israeli base n then promptly announced they accepted a ceasefire they'd worked out with Egypt n Qatar. Knackers Bibi simply turned around n said yeah, nah. Not happening n started lobbing a heap of kabooms back into Rafah.
Caught a snippet on CNN while channel surfing n some septic ex general reckons Hamas played it super smart by stalling for time n forcing Israel to over react again so they could make Israel look like total arseholes to the peace loving western world by smashing the innocent Palestinian victims again. Reckons that Hamas don't give a stuff how many Palestinians get smeared in the process, it's now all about turning everyone against Israel.
Just to be clear my comment was in the context of what happens after a ceasefire is put in place. It was the last line of a post about that process. Right now there is no ceasefire but to be 100% clear I don't condone lobbing missiles over the fence in either circumstance. However I also don't condone the bombing of Rafah at the moment either.

What is needed is a 2 step process. First there needs to be a temporary ceasefire whilst everyone stops and negotiates, Israel stops bombing and attacking Rafah, it reopens the border they have now closed so that aid can flow in and Hamas stops sending in missiles, then negotiate. There can be no meaningful negotiations whilst fighting continues because then we get this tit for tat attacking going on. It has happened before so it is not unprecedented but it would require at least some hostage release.

To understand how the majority of Gazans feel about a ceasefire you only have to look at what happened in the last couple of days. There was a story/information that Hamas had agreed to a ceasefire and there was dancing in the streets, people coming out cheering and crying. The problem was that was true but what they agreed to was the Qatari proposal which was then rejected by Israel, so it was premature and sadly wrong ( without knowing what the proposal was it is hard to judge it) . Whilst Hamas may not want a ceasefire the Gazan people obviously do but they have no power, it is very sad.
 
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Just to be clear my comment was in the context of what happens after a ceasefire is put in place. It was the last line of a post about that process. Right now there is no ceasefire but to be 100% clear I don't condone lobbing missiles over the fence in either circumstance. However I also don't condone the bombing of Rafah at the moment either.
There has to be pause. There has to be some compromise between both parties. Easier said than done, I know.
But both being so bloody dogmatic only affects one group. They have no power, but cop the whack.
What is needed is a 2 step process. First there needs to be a temporary ceasefire whilst everyone stops and negotiates, Israel stops bombing and attacking Rafah, it reopens the border they have now closed so that aid can flow in and Hamas stops sending in missiles, then negotiate. There can be no meaningful negotiations whilst fighting continues because then we get this tit for tat attacking going on. It has happened before so it is not unprecedented but it would require at least some hostage release.
Powerbrokers on both sides only think more about saving face. There are innocent people bearing the brunt of all this. The kidnapped hostages, the Gaza civilians (for the main).
To understand how the majority of Gazans feel about a ceasefire you only have to look at what happened in the last couple of days. There was a story/information that Hamas had agreed to a ceasefire and there was dancing in the streets, people coming out cheering and crying.
yeah because they’re the ones paying a hefty price for Hamas intransigence. The people have had enough. The absolute majority anyway.
The problem was that was true but what they agreed to was the Qatari proposal which was then rejected by Israel, so it was premature and sadly wrong ( without knowing what the proposal was it is hard to judge it) . Whilst Hamas may not want a ceasefire the Gazan people obviously do but they have no power, it is very sad.
I read a little of what the proposal was. It seems Israel was blindsided with some aspects of the deal. Apparently they didn’t have anyone in Cairo(?) when Egypt, Qatar and the US came up with the proposal. Hamas supposedly announced in before Israel got a copy or some such bull *smile*.
It’s hard to posture a solution in Gaza . Whether Hamas is on the nose with the common Palestinian or not.
But Hamas ruling Gaza is a major block with Israel to accept, and work a peace deal. I can’t see it happening when you consider the all the talk from Israel demanding and planning the end of Hamas.

What do the common Palestinians do from here? Do they start a militia to oust Hamas? Do they have the numbers, the courage or the will to do anything about Hamas?
Do they elect a defacto leadership seeing they haven’t had an election for nearly 20 years. does the PA have any compulsion to step into Gaza?
Does such a leadership or the PA work with Israeli special forces to finger where Hamas terrorists have their cells, arms and ammunition? Apparently there still 3 or 4 Hamas battalions still waiting to meet Allah.

There are a lot of what ifs, a lot of questions without easy answers.
But it’s time the Palestinians civilians and family leaders and clan leaders stood up . It’s time the PA signalled to Israel they need to sit down with them. Not just with the Hamas butchers. Maybe the PA has to go into Gaza with the Israelis to combat Hamas and to help protect their people. Hamas certainly doesn’t give a *smile* about the Gazans. That’s bleeding obvious.
 
There has to be pause. There has to be some compromise between both parties. Easier said than done, I know.
But both being so bloody dogmatic only affects one group. They have no power, but cop the whack.

Powerbrokers on both sides only think more about saving face. There are innocent people bearing the brunt of all this. The kidnapped hostages, the Gaza civilians (for the main).

yeah because they’re the ones paying a hefty price for Hamas intransigence. The people have had enough. The absolute majority anyway.

I read a little of what the proposal was. It seems Israel was blindsided with some aspects of the deal. Apparently they didn’t have anyone in Cairo(?) when Egypt, Qatar and the US came up with the proposal. Hamas supposedly announced in before Israel got a copy or some such bull *smile*.
It’s hard to posture a solution in Gaza . Whether Hamas is on the nose with the common Palestinian or not.
But Hamas ruling Gaza is a major block with Israel to accept, and work a peace deal. I can’t see it happening when you consider the all the talk from Israel demanding and planning the end of Hamas.

What do the common Palestinians do from here? Do they start a militia to oust Hamas? Do they have the numbers, the courage or the will to do anything about Hamas?
Do they elect a defacto leadership seeing they haven’t had an election for nearly 20 years. does the PA have any compulsion to step into Gaza?
Does such a leadership or the PA work with Israeli special forces to finger where Hamas terrorists have their cells, arms and ammunition? Apparently there still 3 or 4 Hamas battalions still waiting to meet Allah.

There are a lot of what ifs, a lot of questions without easy answers.
But it’s time the Palestinians civilians and family leaders and clan leaders stood up . It’s time the PA signalled to Israel they need to sit down with them. Not just with the Hamas butchers. Maybe the PA has to go into Gaza with the Israelis to combat Hamas and to help protect their people. Hamas certainly doesn’t give a *smile* about the Gazans. That’s bleeding obvious.
There can be no deal without compromise, it’s impossible

The situation in Gaza makes it impossible for the people to stand up, they are just trying to survive. Maybe Fatah..I don’t know tbh
 

Charge Palestine With Genocide Too​

The case for having the International Court of Justice hear two cases at once
By Graeme Wood
Collage showing the ICJ building and images of Israel



Israel has been convicted of genocide by protesters at Columbia and UCLA, but its genocide case before the International Court of Justice is still pending. Israel remains officially aghast that it, and only it, is subject to judicial proceedings for the crime of genocide—and that the ICJ’s rulings so far have implied that the judges think Israel might be guilty of the crime of crimes. According to reports this weekend, the International Criminal Court—a separate body that hears cases against individuals—is preparing arrest warrants for Israeli officials and possibly Hamas leaders. In the ICJ, Israel stands alone.
In January, the judges stopped short of ordering Israel to stop fighting in Gaza, but they voted 15–2 to remind Israel of its obligations under the Genocide Convention. Among the judges voting with the majority was the German jurist Georg Nolte. His written opinion was curiously apologetic. He called the whole situation, including the atrocities committed by Hamas on October 7, “apocalyptic.” He noted, correctly, that the case before him was not about “possible violations of the Genocide Convention by persons associated with Hamas.” The ICJ hears cases between and against states, and Hamas isn’t one. “While these limitations may be unsatisfactory, the Court is bound to respect them,” he wrote. “I would like to recall, however, that persons associated with Hamas remain responsible for any acts of genocide that they may have committed.”

James Smith: The genocide double standard
Was this a coded suggestion? Without consideration of the October 7 attacks, something is missing from the ICJ proceedings, and Nolte is not the only one to sense an omission. The case is going forward almost as if the Gaza war were not preceded by, and in retaliation for, an attack that itself resembled genocide. Israel’s defenders, including its legal team at the ICJ, have complained that the proceedings tell only half the story, and that a full assessment of the facts would demand consideration of Hamas’s actions, too.
There is a simple remedy for this problem: Charge Palestine with genocide, and let the ICJ hear both cases at once.
The idea is not mine. I first heard it from David J. Scheffer, a senior fellow at the Council on Foreign Relations who served in the Clinton administration as ambassador at large for war-crimes issues. At least three of the judges’ opinions, he told me, suggested that they were “uncomfortable arriving at a determination on the merits of this case, when a large component of the entire situation is not on the table.” Nolte hinted at this view most strongly. The declarations of judges from Uganda and India also noted the absence, as did the judge designated by Israel, Aharon Barak. Scheffer said a parallel case against Palestine “would be to the advantage of the court and, frankly, facilitate their ability to reach a decision” that enjoyed a broad legitimacy.

Every international lawyer I spoke with about this idea called it wild and implausible. Foremost among the objections is the fact that the international representative of the state of Palestine is the Palestinian Authority, not Hamas. The PA is not just not Hamas—it is directly opposed to Hamas, which slaughtered PA members when it seized control of Gaza in 2007.
Irrelevant, Scheffer says. “Hamas members are nationals of the state of Palestine, which is party to the Genocide Convention.” The Genocide Convention obligates its parties (including Israel and most other countries) to prevent, investigate, and punish genocidal acts. The failure to prevent and punish was enough to convict Serbia of genocide in a case before the ICJ in 2007. If Hamas committed genocide on October 7, then Palestine was obligated to stop it and punish its culpable members. Palestine has manifestly failed to do so, with even token gestures. Palestine “is supposed to prevent you from committing genocide, even if you’re a terrorist,” Sheffer told me. “Its duty is to prevent and punish genocide. And I don’t think there’s a record of any punishment [by the PA] of any Hamas member.”

Others doubted that Palestine was even subject to the ICJ’s jurisdiction, because the state of Palestine is not a member of the United Nations General Assembly. It is a “nonmember observer state.” Sheffer points out that this question comes close to being resolved by a statement, helpfully posted on the ICJ’s website, from the state of Palestine itself, consenting to the ICJ’s jurisdiction. In 2018, Palestine went to the court to object to the Trump administration’s decision to move the U.S. embassy from Tel Aviv to Jerusalem. In doing so, it declared that it “accepts all the obligations of a Member of the United Nations” with respect to the ICJ. Moreover, Article IX of the Genocide Convention—which Palestine joined in 2014, and Israel joined in 1950—specifies that the ICJ will hear any cases concerning genocide.
Eliav Lieblich, an international-law professor at Tel Aviv University and a critic of Israel’s conduct of the Gaza war, pronounced the idea of instituting a genocide case against Palestine “theoretically interesting” but “a political nonstarter.” Cases have to be brought to the court by a state, as South Africa did against Israel. Lieblich noted that any state bringing a case against Palestine would, in effect, be recognizing the Palestinian state. You can’t prosecute a state whose existence you deny. That catch-22 favors Palestine: Countries that recognize Palestine tend to be on Palestine’s side, and therefore disinclined to prosecute it at the ICJ.

Graeme Wood: Israel’s bitter bind
But plenty of countries could still bring the case. Of the 193 members of the UN General Assembly, 151 have joined the Genocide Convention. Of those, more than 100 recognize the state of Palestine. Remove from that list the countries that are so pro-Palestine that they would never bring such a case, and at least 30 countries remain, including Cambodia, Paraguay, and Poland.
Any of these countries could start proceedings. But who would want to? (“We have enough problems,” one official from a country on the list replied when I asked if his country would be game.) Longtime critics of Israel have treatedSouth Africa as heroic for stepping up to prosecute Israel. Any country that prosecuted Palestine would probably risk the opposite effect on its reputation.
But Scheffer urges countries to think strategically about the effect of bringing a case against Palestine. Doing so would greatly influence the proceedings against Israel, he says, and that influence “is not necessarily to the detriment of South Africa’s position.” Israel’s complaint that it is lonely in the dock vanishes instantly if it has company. Judges would be more inclined to rule against Israel, Scheffer suggests, if they did not feel that they were singling out the Jewish state. “If they could also look at the evidence regarding Hamas and say there is also a violation by the state of Palestine, that would be a much more comfortable position for judges to take.”

And it is far from certain that the court would convict Palestine. Palestine could defend itself by saying that it failed to prevent genocide because it was itself prevented from doing so by Israel, through its occupation of the West Bank and hamstringing of the Palestinian Authority’s capacity to act. Eliav Lieblich noted that in other international courts, a state’s duties are lightened or relieved when its territory is controlled by another, stronger state. Israel would not relish having to observe this defense.
And, finally, the ICJ imposes very high burdens on the prosecution in genocide cases. The prosecution must demonstrate the intent to destroy a protected group, and the absence of plausible nongenocidal intents that might explain the behavior of the accused. Could a prosecutor show that the onlypossible rationale for Hamas’s actions on October 7 was to commit genocide against Jews? Could Palestine convince the judges that Hamas was instead attempting to resist Israel’s occupation, and that if Hamas intended genocide, it would have planned its operation differently? If so, Palestine, and by extension Hamas, would likely be acquitted.

Israel has at its disposal a similar defense. Might the death and suffering of Gazans be attributable not to an intent to wipe them from the Earth, but to a desire to free hostages and defend itself against a terror group that commits flagrant war crimes, vows to keep doing so, and uses civilians as shields? If so, Israel, too, stands a good chance of acquittal.
One frequently noted shortcoming of the International Court of Justice, and of international law more broadly, is that its justice is applied unevenly (and often by the strong against the weak). Israel is frustrated that, at the ICJ, it seems to be allowed only to lose, while its wartime adversary remains beyond judgment of any type. The verdicts would not depend on each other—one party could be guilty and the other innocent—but the ICJ’s legitimacy does seem to be tied to the willingness of the court, and the states before it, to punish potential violators of all types, and not just those vilified, rightly or wrongly, in the current wave of fashionable opinion.

Graeme Wood is a staff writer at The Atlantic and the author of The Way of the Strangers: Encounters With the Islamic State.
 
That is one of the more ridiculous articles I have seen, although there is a lot of competition.

Genocide is about wiping out a whole people, wiping out a culture or the like. In order to attempt genocide you need to have overwhelming military power, something the Palestinians lack.

In any case, it is Palestinians in the mass graves not digging the mass graves.

DS
 
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There are a lot of accusations from Israel that Hamas are allegedly using the civilian population of Gaza as human shields.

Well, Israel do use civilians as human shields, there are numerous accusations and here is footage of the IOF doing so in the west bank:


There are other examples of this going back before October 7 too.

DS
 
That is one of the more ridiculous articles I have seen, although there is a lot of competition.
Of course you’d say that. You probably only looked at the headline and didn’t read the article.
Genocide is about wiping out a whole people, wiping out a culture or the like
Maybe you need to read the definition a little closer
. In order to attempt genocide you need to have overwhelming military power, something the Palestinians lack.
No you don’t. You need the will first and foremost. There doesn’t seem to be any shortage of weapons available. Maybe not to the extent of the IDF, but plenty all the same and there is always a willing supplier.
In any case, it is Palestinians in the mass graves not digging the mass graves.
Well it’s already reported what the death toll is. They’re not always going to have individual funerals.
Just imagine if October 7 hadn’t happened. There’d be no mass graves or Indi ones either.
 
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Australia has voted to back Palestinian statehood at the UN.

What this does in the end is move towards giving formal recognition by the UN that a Palestinian state exists, something that Israel already has of course. It means discussions and negotiations are done on the basis that they are between two states.

The Israeli UN ambassador went ballistic but I am not sure why they care, they have ignored everything the UN decides in relation to them anyway.

Bravo Australia
👋
 
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Australia has voted to back Palestinian statehood at the UN.

What this does in the end is move towards giving formal recognition by the UN that a Palestinian state exists,
Which comes with some responsibilities of course.
something that Israel already has of course. It means discussions and negotiations are done on the basis that they are between two states.
I wonder what that changes, if anything.
The Israeli UN ambassador went ballistic but I am not sure why they care, they have ignored everything the UN decides in relation to them anyway.
As have the Palestinians and most other states when it came to the Partition. Which led to a lot of bloodshed and deaths on both sides.
Bravo Australia
👋
Voted by the General Assembly, I think it still has to go before the Security Council.
It’s been a long time coming that’s for sure
 
Australia has voted to back Palestinian statehood at the UN.

What this does in the end is move towards giving formal recognition by the UN that a Palestinian state exists, something that Israel already has of course. It means discussions and negotiations are done on the basis that they are between two states.

The Israeli UN ambassador went ballistic but I am not sure why they care, they have ignored everything the UN decides in relation to them anyway.

Bravo Australia
👋
I'm actually surprised Australia didn't abstain on this vote. We have been just short of totally pathetic so far.

Hopefully, smarter heads are being listened to.
 
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Australia has voted to back Palestinian statehood at the UN.

What this does in the end is move towards giving formal recognition by the UN that a Palestinian state exists, something that Israel already has of course.
There seems to some political speak involved Sin.
I don’t think Australia is backing Palestinian “statehood” at this stage. But UN membership. Still some way to go before the Security Council as well. I wonder what the US will do there. Vote for it to pass, abstain or veto?



Australia has supported a UN vote on Palestinian membership after the draft resolution was significantly watered down in last-minute negotiations.

Australia was among 143 UN general assembly assembly members to pass the resolution calling on the security council to reconsider granting full membership to Palestine
In a statement explaining its vote, the Australian government said it welcomed the resolution.
The government said the resolution’s language expressed “unwavering support for the two-state solution of Israel and Palestine, living side by side in peace and security within recognized borders”, and was “a clear rejection of the goals and methods of Hamas”.
It said it was “frustrated by the lack of progress” towards a two-state solution and there was “a role for the international community to build momentum”.

Like many other countries, our vote for this resolution is not bilateral recognition of Palestinian statehood,” it said.

“Nevertheless, Australia no longer accepts that recognition can only come at the end of the peace process.
“We have been clear there is no role for Hamas in a future Palestinian state.”

So obviously there will new elections to be held. Maybe under the umbrella of the UN or a Coalition of Arab states.
What if Hamas was re-elected?
 
I'm actually surprised Australia didn't abstain on this vote. We have been just short of totally pathetic so far.

Hopefully, smarter heads are being listened to.
There has been a definite change in approach. Pressure from the grass roots in the ALP evidently.
The 2 state solution is government policy
Which comes with some responsibilities of course.

I wonder what that changes, if anything.

As have the Palestinians and most other states when it came to the Partition. Which led to a lot of bloodshed and deaths on both sides.

Voted by the General Assembly, I think it still has to go before the Security Council.
It’s been a long time coming that’s for sure
Responsibilities absolutely yes. Responsibilities that Israel has ignored for many years.
It does not change a lot practically because the security council will veto because the US will vote against. They have said they want Palestinian sovereignty through negotiation between the parties. Ok, that’s fine but they have to now show they mean it
 
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There has been a definite change in approach. Pressure from the grass roots in the ALP evidently.
The 2 state solution is government policy

Responsibilities absolutely yes. Responsibilities that Israel has ignored for many years.
It does not change a lot practically because the security council will veto because the US will vote against. They have said they want Palestinian sovereignty through negotiation between the parties. Ok, that’s fine but they have to now show they mean it
The US is going to keep doing *and saying* whatever they can to deny Palestinians of a home. Simples.

This is yet another crystal clear example of why the UN's veto system is a core reason of why it is largely an ineffective institution in such matters.
 
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The US is going to keep doing *and saying* whatever they can to deny Palestinians of a home. Simples.

This is yet another crystal clear example of why the UN's veto system is a core reason of why it is largely an ineffective institution in such matters.
True, but what is does is reflect sentiment and with that comes pressure.
143 nations voted for this, 26 abstained and only 9 voted against it. The world has made its point which I agree has severe limitations but is not nothing.
 
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