NRL

[Liverpool]

I've dealt with David Gyngell and he's a better bloke than most in TV land. He's also one of John's mates and biggest supporters so he won't have been reactionary in making this decision. It will have been a hard call. Even though what John's did wasn't illegal Gyngell will be worried about how it will will effect perceptions & ratings of the female viewing audience not just for the footy show/NRL games but the entire network. Not to mention 9's relationship with the NRL.

With 9's ratings already copping a hiding IMO it's just too hot right now for them not to do this..

Besides the thing is they have said is that they have have stood him down 'indefinitely'. That gives them an out at any point they like to reinstate him and given he's one of their biggest drawcards they'll no doubt now be figuring out a ways to get this all to go away.

Fair enough.

However, I would hope the "female viewing audience" they are trying to protect realise that the woman who is the perceived 'victim' in all this was as willing a participant as Johns.

I still feel he is getting hung out to dry while everyone else involved are ignored.

 

[Tigers of Old]

However, I would hope the "female viewing audience" they are trying to protect realise that the woman who is the perceived 'victim' in all this was as willing a participant as Johns.

I don't claim to know both sides of the story but I get the sense what one thinks is 'willing' might differ to someone else's given the wash up of what's happened since. :-\

The overwhelming majority of folks can't really relate to what occurred that night with 7 players & 1 woman. I sure can't.

 

[IanG]

Fair enough.

However, I would hope the "female viewing audience" they are trying to protect realise that the woman who is the perceived 'victim' in all this was as willing a participant as Johns

Well what she is saying is that she consented for some but not all of what happened, hence why they weren't tried, it was simply too messy. After hearing what she said on 4 Corners there is no doubt at all that she was traumatised by what happened and it was definitely sexual misconduct if not even greater.

 

[mb64]

I still feel he is getting hung out to dry while everyone else involved are ignored.

Agree,surely they will be named shortly

 

[Angie]

I agree that Johns is holding the bag here for a lot of blokes... they should all be named and shamed.

As for the 'willing' bit... by all accounts, a nineteen year old girl went back to a hotel room for a few drinks with a couple of guys - maybe not the smartest thing to do and the intention was very possibly to engage in sexual activity. But tell me, what kind of blokes reckon it's OK to then jump in and 'take turns' while others stand on the sidelines pleasuring themselves? I'm a little mystified how anyone could consider that a 'good time' and a reportedly team building exercise - IMO, that is the act of an animal. I feel like I need to hear about how at least one bloke said "c'mon guys, that's enough".

I thought it was very interesting in the 4 corners documentary that they showed current efforts to educate young rugby players. In a classroom setup, they showed them 2 sets of reenactment footage. First they showed a woman being taken advantage of while drunk and afterwards the guys all talked about how the girl was drunk and no one seemed overly concerned by the footage. Next they showed a man being taken advantage of (raped by another man) and they all thought that this was unacceptable and that it didn't matter that the guy was drunk... stuff like that just shouldn't happen. Even after it was pointed out to them that exactly the same thing had happened to the girl - they just didn't get it! Amazing!

I know that Johns is not alone here. There really does appear to be strange culture in the NRL around women and sex. They say it's changing but who knows.

 

[tannerztigers]

In my opnion this is a new 'twist' to the situation ...

http://www.news.com.au/heraldsun/story/0,21985,25482181-11088,00.html

'Clare' bragged about sex romp: friend

AAP

May 14, 2009 07:13pm

A FORMER work colleague of the woman at the centre of the Cronulla Sharks sex scandal involving Matthew Johns claims her co-worker bragged about the incident.

Tania Boyd has told the Nine Network that the woman in the ABC's Four Corners report, identified as "Clare", had boasted to her workmates about bedding several players and only contacted police five days after the alleged incident.

"She was absolutely excited about the fact. She was bragging about it to the staff and quite willing, openly saying how she had sex with several players," said Boyd.

"We were quite disgusted about it. There was no trauma whatsoever.

"I'm disgusted that a woman can all of a sudden change her story from having a great time to then turning it into a terrible crime.

"One minute she was absolutely bragging about it, she did not know names. These names only came to light to us in the last day.

"We all just thought it was hilarious until five days later the police came to work and were horrified she had now changed her story to say she was now a victim of crime.

"It was definitely consensual, absolutely.

"She is saying she is still traumatised etcetera, well she wasn't for five days, or four days at least, after that affair.

"I can't work out what's happened. Does it take five days for it to sink in?"

The woman told the ABC that the night in which she had group sex with several Cronulla players at a Christchurch hotel seven years ago left her with psychological damage and led her to abandoning her studies.

Psychiatrists reported that she was suicidal, had cut her wrists several times and bought a rope to hang herself.

She told the ABC she felt degraded and traumatised by the incident and despised the players involved.

Among the allegations aired on Monday, the woman said two men rubbed their penises in her face while other men stood watching and masturbating.

Six men had sex with her while another six looked on. There was always someone touching her, she said.

"For years and years afterwards I was drinking a lot, crying a lot and losing a lot of friends and doing quite destructive things to myself and other people," she told the program.

"At the end of it, I wasn't so much drinking heaps and heaps, I was more scared to go out of the house."

She said the destructive period lasted about four or five years and she was now speaking out to let the wives and girlfriends of those involved know what they had done.

"I was so angry and I wanted their lives destroyed like mine was," she said.

"If I had a gun I'd shoot them right now.

"I hate them. They disgust me. For all that they did, I hate them so much."

 

[Liverpool]

Well what she is saying is that she consented for some but not all of what happened, hence why they weren't tried, it was simply too messy. After hearing what she said on 4 Corners there is no doubt at all that she was traumatised by what happened and it was definitely sexual misconduct if not even greater.

The NZ police have said they are not re-opening the case.
And Matty Johns has vehemently denied it was rape or anything and that it was consensual.

As for the 'willing' bit... by all accounts, a nineteen year old girl went back to a hotel room for a few drinks with a couple of guys - maybe not the smartest thing to do and the intention was very possibly to engage in sexual activity. But tell me, what kind of blokes reckon it's OK to then jump in and 'take turns' while others stand on the sidelines pleasuring themselves? I'm a little mystified how anyone could consider that a 'good time' and a reportedly team building exercise - IMO, that is the act of an animal. I feel like I need to hear about how at least one bloke said "c'mon guys, that's enough".

I agree Angie.....and I won't hide from the fact that group sex isn't my cup of tea either.

However, for some people it is.....and last time I looked it wasn't illegal.......and therefore Matty Johns being sacked from multiple jobs because what he did doesn't suit the "moral agenda" of people out there is going a bit far.

People want to "name and shame" the other players......what the?
What happens in people's bedrooms (unless it is illegal) is nothing to do with anyone else....and Matty Johns having to face his wife every day about this for maybe the rest of his life is enough punishment for a legal act that he did 7 years ago.

The only issue here is: Did the female consent?
And going by the police and their investigation, this seems to be the case.

Finally, people harp on about "respect for women".
How about some of these women showing some respect for THEMSELVES to begin with?
Why hasn't this female been lambasted in the media for sleeping with a married man? or having sex with multiple men?

It takes 2 (or more in this case) to tango.

 

[Angie]

I'm sorry, these guys should have known better! I still can't believe that people are using the word consent here when we're talking about a nineteen year old girl who believes she may be going to have sex with two blokes and ends up with 14 huge guys standing around her... I'm sorry, but I'd probably consent as well - what are the options?

And as for her bragging to her mates afterwards... it just goes to show how immature this girl was and ripe for being taken advantage of.

And please don't insult my intelligence by calling this 'group sex'! This was 'pack sex'. While this may not be my cup of tea - I do not begrudge anyone partaking in it - whatever gets you off is OK by me so long as no one gets hurt. There are clubs you can go to indulge and women who hire themselves out for this function! Why do two blokes have to bring a young girl back to a hotel - because they probably think they shouldn't have to pay for it.

I don't want to try to change anyones opinion on this issue, there are some people who will just never get it. I hope that my daughter makes better decisions when she grows up but I also hope that should she make a wrong one, there is a decent human being in the room.

 

[Tigers of Old]

what are the options?

Saying 'no' would be a good start.

 

[Angie]

Saying 'no' would be a good start.

Oh, dear me... I forgot which thread I was on... the NRL...

 

[Tigers of Old]

Oh, dear me... I forgot which thread I was on... the NRL...

You obviously don't think she could have said no then I take it. Sorry if you find that offensive but that's just plainly ridiculous.

You might find the incident distasteful as a woman but unless it's illegal then there is no case to answer.
The police investigated the incident and found it wasn't, so that's that.

BTW I too think John's should have been stood down from his job in commercial TV but if you absolve this woman of any responsibility for where she found herself then I can't say anything else on this.

I hope that my daughter makes better decisions when she grows up but I also hope that should she make a wrong one, there is a decent human being in the room.

What makes you so sure that this woman was decent Angie? Just because she is a woman? :blah

How about some of these women showing some respect for THEMSELVES to begin with?
Why hasn't this female been lambasted in the media for sleeping with a married man? or having sex with multiple men?

Spot on. The players involved aren't the only ones that should be copping it for this mess.

 

[Angie]

TOO, get a life... you're just a big bully. Go back and read my posts. No one has been absolved of any blame in my book but the balance of power certainly does not rest with the girl here in any way. And I don't find this incident distasteful just because I'm a woman, I find it distastful because I'm a human being who feels empathy.

What makes you so sure that this woman was decent Angie? Just because she is a woman? :blah

Never said she was decent TOO... just hoped that the next time something like this might happen, someone in the room might be decent enough to stop and think about what is happening instead of getting caught up in pack mentality.

I just find this whole conversation so disappointing and some of the opinions expressed disturbing.

 

[Tigers of Old]

The entire situation is disturbing, I agree.
You're obviously very sensitive about it.
I've expressed my opinion. Won't be commenting further.

 

[Liverpool]

TOO, get a life... you're just a big bully. Go back and read my posts. No one has been absolved of any blame in my book but the balance of power certainly does not rest with the girl here in any way. And I don't find this incident distasteful just because I'm a woman, I find it distastful because I'm a human being who feels empathy.

Never said she was decent TOO... just hoped that the next time something like this might happen, someone in the room might be decent enough to stop and think about what is happening instead of getting caught up in pack mentality.

I just find this whole conversation so disappointing and some of the opinions expressed disturbing.

Angie,
I think the female here has a lot more to answer for than the blokes, for a start.

These blokes might be sleazy to take the advantage of an opportunity that presented itself, but the person who presented the opportunity to begin with was the woman.

Johns and his mates didn't abduct her, tie her to a bed, and rape her.

She was a WILLING PARTICIPANT in all this and now all of a sudden she has come forward to the media (remember the police have no issue) and Johns has been slammed.

I find the blokes behaviour weird and strange and not something I would get involved in myself.
I think you used the word "distasteful" and I fully agree.

However no way is this girl some 'innocent victim' in all this....and maybe things did get a bit much for her when other blokes walked into the room....but it was SHE who put herself in that position and the morals of this woman should be questioned just as much as Johns and the other blokes.

 

[Play Centre]

At what point do you think group sex becomes pack sex? I mean, a threesome is group sex I guess, by definition, but surely as the numbers increase, particularly when the gender of one group starts to greatly outnumber the gender of the other, so 5,6,7 to 1, then it becomes pack sex?

And in this case the power inbalance is of a concern isn't it?

 

[Liverpool]

At what point do you think group sex becomes pack sex? I mean, a threesome is group sex I guess, by definition, but surely as the numbers increase, particularly when the gender of one group starts to greatly outnumber the gender of the other, so 5,6,7 to 1, then it becomes pack sex?
And in this case the power inbalance is of a concern isn't it?

It doesn't matter what 'slogan' you use....group sex, pack sex....if the particpants are all consenting adults and what they are doing is legal, then it shouldn't matter.
And last time I looked, I didn't there there was a legal limit to the sexual partners you had at once.

The woman in question may be traumatised...I don't doubt that.
She may regret what has happened.....I don't doubt that either.
The blokes involved (especially Johns as he is the one being vilified in public) regret what took place ove in NZ as well.

However, we shouldn't forget that just because the woman placed herself in this position and is now regretful and traumatised by her experience, that she is automatically a "victim".

No crime was committed......only embarassment and everyone feeling ashamed of what happened.

 

[Play Centre]

Ok, forget about group sex, and pack sex, at what point do you think there is a power inbalance, Liverpool?

 

[Liverpool]

Ok, forget about group sex, and pack sex, at what point do you think there is a power inbalance, Liverpool?

Is a "power inbalance" illegal?

 

[Play Centre]

Is a "power inbalance" illegal?

No, but it's certainly not a healthy situation.

Liverpool, is the law the only thing you understand? What happens when the law conflicts with your sense of morals or ethics? What do you do then? Do you adhere to your set of beliefs or do you go by the law.

 

[Liverpool]

No, but it's certainly not a healthy situation.

:cutelaugh
Well, thats good enough to sack a bloke from his various employers I guess.

Liverpool, is the law the only thing you understand? What happens when the law conflicts with your sense of morals or ethics? What do you do then? Do you adhere to your set of beliefs or do you go by the law.

Ah, the good old "moral argument".
O.k...what about the morals and ethics of the girl in question.....hopping into a bed with a married man and agreeing to sex with various men?
It seems people aren't questioning the morals of the girl who VOLUNTARILY went to bed with a number of men.

And I have already said that "group/pack sex" is not my thing.....but it may be the thing of some people.....and therefore as long as what happened is legal then who cares about my (or your) morals/ethics?
Its not the 'moral police' that determines what is bad and what people should be punished for....because we all have different morals and ethics based on our culture, upbringing, and personal choices.
Thats why we have LAWS.
And if the people involved were all of legal age and acted in a legal manner, then that is all that counts.