Non composed grunt v Composed silk

[Sintiger]

Is one of the key issues for Hardwick that our "grunt" is basically B Grade at best (regardless of the now legendary Dusty don't argues), and therefore we try to make up for it in the quantity of "grunty" types on the field where in reality we just need a Tuck/Jackson etc. to actually make a difference at the contest and provide space for our silky players to do their thing

The interesting thing is that Moore and Townsend's careers so far are probably not that different to Jacko's at the same age. Jacko was the whipping boy remember ! Our best grunt player is Miles who wouldn't even have qualified as a B grader when he came to us and had a similar background to Townsend.

Not saying these guys will be world beaters but I suspect they have been recruited because the club believes they can be better than what we have seen so far.

 

[Scoop]

Just on this Lamby, I did some research on last year. At times through injury, Hardwick had a semi excuse because not a great deal of the silk was available and stringing games together.

Corey Ellis only played 9 games last year, Jayden Short played 10, Daniel Bulter didn't play at all, Lennon was probably the only one who was left to rot in the VFL. But when Hardwick did have the choice between Conca & Lennon, he went a unfit, untried at AFL level for 6+ weeks Conca. And it cost us. And Lloyd for Griffiths. Same thing. So your theory is still sound.

This year will be the true test because we will have all of the above fit along with Rioli. And there will need to be clear cut choices. Team's who have firepower win flags. We can go this lock down, 1 spare in the back half at all times and end up like Freo or we can unleash the silk and become a tremendous defensive team who punishes team with slick ball movement. But you can't be both. This year we find out.

 

[Carter]

Just on this Lamby, I did some research on last year. At times through injury, Hardwick had a semi excuse because not a great deal of the silk was available and stringing games together.

Corey Ellis only played 9 games last year, Jayden Short played 10, Daniel Bulter didn't play at all, Lennon was probably the only one who was left to rot in the VFL. But when Hardwick did have the choice between Conca & Lennon, he went a unfit, untried at AFL level for 6+ weeks Conca. And it cost us. And Lloyd for Griffiths. Same thing. So your theory is still sound.

This year will be the true test because we will have all of the above fit along with Rioli. And there will need to be clear cut choices. Team's who have firepower win flags. We can go this lock down, 1 spare in the back half at all times and end up like Freo or we can unleash the silk and become a tremendous defensive team who punishes team with slick ball movement. But you can't be both. This year we find out.

Totally hear what you're saying Scoop but we're hamstrung for grunt and therefore first use.

We have to cheat our way to the ball like we did last year.

Either way, I agree that unleashing our silk is a must.

 

[St Kevin]

Totally hear what you're saying Scoop but we're hamstrung for grunt and therefore first use.

We have to cheat our way to the ball like we did last year.

Either way, I agree that unleashing our silk is a must.

To improve our grunt we'll need Townsend and/or Moore to be a full time inside mid and a few guys like McIntosh to step up to the coalface. Lot of 'ifs'.

I agree we really need to make a point of utilising the likes of Houli, Yarran, Lids, C. Ellis and Lennon on the outside as premium users of the ball.

 

[Carter]

To improve our grunt we'll need Townsend and/or Moore to be a full time inside mid and a few guys like McIntosh to step up to the coalface. Lot of 'ifs'.

I agree we really need to make a point of utilising the likes of Houli, Yarran, Lids, C. Ellis and Lennon on the outside as premium users of the ball.

Yep, and can add B Ellis, Menadue, Short and Costagna (needs composure) to that list.

Wallace would be proud of this list.

I don't mean that in a bad way. I actually love watching these blokes use the ball.

Gotta get it first though.

I think people need to prepare themselves for some smashings in the clearances. We just ain't got the muscle in there.

 

[St Kevin]

Yep, and can add B Ellis, Menadue, Short and Costagna (needs composure) to that list.

Wallace would be proud of this list.

I don't mean that in a bad way. I actually love watching these blokes use the ball.

Gotta get it first though.

I think people need to prepare themselves for some smashings in the clearances. We just ain't got the muscle in there.

Well look at the Hawks. How many genuine 'inside' mids do they have? Lewis and Mitchell? Have enough prime movers and it doesn't really matter tbh. Same in regards to a top tier ruck imo. By no means essential at all.

 

[Carter]

Well look at the Hawks. How many genuine 'inside' mids do they have? Lewis and Mitchell? Have enough prime movers and it doesn't really matter tbh. Same in regards to a top tier ruck imo. By no means essential at all.

Hmm Lewis and Mitchell ain't half bad. Hodge goes through there too.

Look I'm ok with the launch from half back. It's up to Dimma to play skilful players forward of the pill.

What won't happen is playing a full forward line unfortunately.

 

[St Kevin]

Hmm Lewis and Mitchell ain't half bad. Hodge goes through there too.

Look I'm ok with the launch from half back. It's up to Dimma to play skilful players forward of the pill.

What won't happen is playing a full forward line unfortunately.

Oh Lewis and Mitchell are guns. All I'm saying is we probably need 1 more inside mid (Townsend) and a tweak in gameplan, as opposed to 3+ inside mids.

 

[TheCan]

For every grunt u need two silk prime movers hand and foot
One on either side of the grunt

 

[yandb]

Hawthorn have the added advantage that Hodge and Mitchel are grunt and silk.

 

[Jonesracing82]

looking at our Players stats via the app, i noticed most if not all our players had career high disposals in 2012/13. could this be as we had extra "grunt" in Tuck/Jackson to get the ball out to those players? have we finally tweeked, hence getting Townsend/Moore in to play those roles?
do we structure the midfield differently so both of these guys play each week getting the ball out to Cotch/Lids/Dusty/C.Ellis etc?

 

[Carter]

Oh Lewis and Mitchell are guns. All I'm saying is we probably need 1 more inside mid (Townsend) and a tweak in gameplan, as opposed to 3+ inside mids.

Yes, we need grunt but not too much. It's a fine balance.

But keep in mind we need A grade grunt. Townsend may not be good enough.

What we need is to be able to present consistent A grade grunt over 120 minutes of footy.

In a final having the likes of Edwards and Lambert in your B team really hurt us. I rate Edwards but we can't depend on him for muscle. He's an extractor with x factor.

We need a Mundy or Kennedy type. That would complete us.

 

[Carter]

Hawthorn have the added advantage that Hodge and Mitchel are grunt and silk.

Indeed. They provide A grade grunt AND class. So rare. We just have Cotch in that category.

 

[poppa x]

Indeed. They provide A grade grunt AND class. So rare. We just have Cotch in that category.

Add in Lewis too and they are well served.

 

[spook]

Shane Tuck and Mark Coughlan are the same age as Sam Mitchell. Dan Jackson is the same age as Jordan Lewis.

 

[Carter]

Shane Tuck and Mark Coughlan are the same age as Sam Mitchell. Dan Jackson is the same age as Jordan Lewis.

That's a sobering thought.

Dan Jackson is exactly what we need. Some smart, A grade grunt and muscle in the packs.

Funny, back when we were low on skill his deficiencies were more obvious.

Now that we are loaded with talent the hole he left has become a chasm.

We can finally afford to carry his lack of skill and the *smile* isn't there.

I was completely wrong about you Jacko - come out of retirement big fella? ;D

 

[TigerFlag2017]

That's a sobering thought.

Dan Jackson is exactly what we need. Some smart, A grade grunt and muscle in the packs.

Funny, back when we were low on skill his deficiencies were more obvious.

Now that we are loaded with talent the hole he left has become a chasm.

We can finally afford to carry his lack of skill and the *smile*er isn't there.

I was completely wrong about you Jacko - come out of retirement big fella? ;D

You weren't alone. I always looked forward to the day we would be in a position to upgrade Jackson and Matty White. They both turned out pretty good in the end.

 

[Midsy]

Shane Tuck and Mark Coughlan are the same age as Sam Mitchell. Dan Jackson is the same age as Jordan Lewis.

Two of them have 8 premierships between them. Ability is the key - not age.

 

[spook]

Two of them have 8 premierships between them. Ability is the key - not age.

Ability is one key. Experience is another. Cogs was tracking to be a better player than Lewis. Tuck and Jackson enabled Cotchin to be a better player than Mitchell.

 

[Scoop]

Ability is one key. Experience is another. Cogs was tracking to be a better player than Lewis. Tuck and Jackson enabled Cotchin to be a better player than Mitchell.

Agree on Cogs, it was a huge loss. Would be the ideal fit for what we need right now. And it's interesting point on Tuck & Jackson. The last few years I 've floated names like Matt Crouch & Rhys Mathieson as types to do that. I still feel like we are two big midfielders short.