Non composed grunt v Composed silk | PUNT ROAD END | Richmond Tigers Forum
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Non composed grunt v Composed silk

The question is why did Liam only get 6 quarters? He didn't poll a single vote in the b&f in a system when every player on the ground gets votes for various reasons. We may never know the reasons but holding him back a bit could well make him a better player long term.
 
tigersnake said:
Based on your evidence and argument, its no furphy. And its no fact. Drummond knee, Beanie, I'll give you that, Madonna, not classy, Elton, ditto, Menadue got more games than he might have been due, Ellis, foot/ groin.

comparing them to the games Morris got is your classic A Bolt-style out of context half truth, a meaningless assertion.

And on those losses, (I'll take out the Dogs one because I believe we were beaten by a better side on the day), the woeful losses to Melb and Geel were across-the-board listless, rudderless, lead in the boots crap efforts. You reckon a couple of non-superstar youngsters and a bush journeyman would have changed that? Fair dinkum?
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A more attacking mindset, along with McBean and Lennon, would have made a hell of a difference.

And you think Madonna wasn't classy? ???

He didn't do a lot of things (namely, chase and tackle) but was as classy as all get out.
 
Out of context? Yegods.

When did Hardwick play or develop the additional forward or forwards we needed.

First 6 weeks ......crickets...while Morris Newman et al fiddle while RFC burns.

Drummond sacrificed (played well before ready) at the altar of make it look like we're doing something.

Hardwick discombobulated spews out Elton, Menadue Ellis and Beanie in rd 7.

Thank Zeus it works the Hardwick dumps 2 the week after and the majority within weeks.

We struggle to kick more than ten goals Hardwick fiddles at the margins brings back lloyd as sub against Freo. He flubs his return , getting the ball but missing shots, trying to justify his spot.

Eventually re-introduces lennon but still hardly plays Lloyd and Lennon in the same side.

Still the side starts to click forward (as Ty steps up too) and thank god Griff is injured.

What does he do dumps both for the elmination.

CONTEXT

Here's more context Morris 54 quarters. Newman 68 quarters.

Drummond 1.5
Beanie 6
Elton 4
Maddonna 3
Menadue 7
CEllis 16
 
rosy23 said:
The question is why did Liam only get 6 quarters? He didn't poll a single vote in the b&f in a system when every player on the ground gets votes for various reasons. We may never know the reasons but holding him back a bit could well make him a better player long term.
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You seem to be using the judgement of the RFC coaching group to prove the judgement of the RFC coaching group is right.
 
lamb22 said:
You seem to be using the judgement of the RFC coaching group to prove the judgement of the RFC coaching group is right.
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I'm not trying to prove anything. I haven't even offered an opinion.
 
Hardwick doesn't trust skilful players who, ya know, ply their trade forward of the ball to reach dangerous areas.

This is the lament of the Hardwick era.

Houli dashes off half back, gets it to Martin, a magnificent don't argue and a scything pass to... no one in particular. Jack is blowing a gasket trying to get back but he's the only one down there.

Have you seen Ross Smith? He'll smash your face in if you go AWOL from his defensive grid.
 
lamb22 said:
Out of context? Yegods.

When did Hardwick play or develop the additional forward or forwards we needed.

First 6 weeks ......crickets...while Morris Newman et al fiddle while RFC burns.

Drummond sacrificed (played well before ready) at the altar of make it look like we're doing something.

Hardwick discombobulated spews out Elton, Menadue Ellis and Beanie in rd 7.

Thank Zeus it works the Hardwick dumps 2 the week after and the majority within weeks.

We struggle to kick more than ten goals Hardwick fiddles at the margins brings back lloyd as sub against Freo. He flubs his return , getting the ball but missing shots, trying to justify his spot.

Eventually re-introduces lennon but still hardly plays Lloyd and Lennon in the same side.

Still the side starts to click forward (as Ty steps up too) and thank god Griff is injured.

What does he do dumps both for the elmination.

CONTEXT

Here's more context Morris 54 quarters. Newman 68 quarters.

Drummond 1.5
Beanie 6
Elton 4
Maddonna 3
Menadue 7
CEllis 16
Click to expand...

I don't think you know the meaning of the word context. I was unaware of that previously. For example: Implying/ arguing/ using Drummond as evidence that Hardwick doesn't give deserving players games. the CONTEXT that you neglect to mention, repeatedly, is that Drummond was given an early debut, and then did his knee rendering unable to be picked for games. This is, by definition, presenting information or a fact (Drummond had less games than Morris) out of context. Devoid of relevant context. Zero context provided.

Ditto McDonough, Context, didn't shine in games he was given, delisted at years end and not drafted by another club.

Ditto C Ellis, Context, did his groin, unavailable for selection. etc etc.

Context, its a thing.

Assertion Tigersnake was robbed of a brilliant AFL career as a dashing wingman by coaches and combined-side selectors playing favourites. Context: didn't have much talent, couldn't get the ball and was a lazy trainer.
 
Sintiger said:
McBean came in and did just ok. He was an injury replacement for Vickery who had a very good 2nd half of the season. He kicked 40 odd goals in the vfl, not 80.
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Have you seen how hard it is to kick a goal in our reserves team?

It's a minor miracle he got any at all.
 
Carter said:
A more attacking mindset, along with McBean and Lennon, would have made a hell of a difference.

And you think Madonna wasn't classy? ???

He didn't do a lot of things (namely, chase and tackle) but was as classy as all get out.
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So classy he's now at North Adelaide :hihi

To be fair I can see both sides here. Lamby will always insist on more silk, less steel. Others go the other way. I'd agree that Dimma picks the team that suits his game plans. I wouldn't call them conservative, but they are not about razzle-dazzle and high scoring, granted.

This whole thread is really just a variation on "Dimma doesn't play the kids" theme and is just about as accurate IMO.
 
antman said:
So classy he's now at North Adelaide :hihi

To be fair I can see both sides here. Lamby will always insist on more silk, less steel.
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Not necessarily Ruddster, some of my all time faves Duncan Kellaway, Cogs, Foley, Kingy and now Miles.

Big fan of Joel Selwood and our Cotch when on song.

A lot of the above had bucketloads of skill but they (mostly) have composed grunt. Could even get Shed a guernsey in there on his good days.

Gruntitude with composure and purpose (and a touch of skill) is gold Jerry!!

Headless chicken grunt - not so good.
 
Sintiger said:
You know my views on McBean but you just keep on coming back for more ......
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?? what you smokin sinners?

Troll or not troll, always happy to extoll the virtues of the bean
 
tigersnake said:
Context: didn't have much talent, couldn't get the ball and was a lazy trainer.
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I loved training. It was the only time I could get the ball...!
 
lamb22 said:
What are your views on Beanie Sin?
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The usual unimaginative view that Beanie must be mediocre because he hasn't played many AFL games.

"but like any Richmond player I want him to succeed."

Yeah, yeah.
 
lamb22 said:
What are your views on Beanie Sin?
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Highly talented player who had ( and still has) to learn to be more than a 200cm crumbing forward. Over the last couple of seasons his pressure when he doesn't have the ball, his ability to get to more contests and his willingness to use his size to take more marks has improved. These are the things that together with his unique ability to be a threat on the ground that will make him an AFL footballer.
In the last few years he hasn't shown enough to be automatically picked over incumbents in the team. His debut games were ok, did a couple of nice things but nothing special.
I am hopeful he can become a player because he is different to the usual forward. Potentially he could give us the sort of flexibility in the front half that Grimes gives us in the back half by playing both tall and small.
 
Carter said:
The usual unimaginative view that Beanie must be mediocre because he hasn't played many AFL games.

"but like any Richmond player I want him to succeed."

Yeah, yeah.
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Maybe but maybe it's what he did or didn't do in the games he actually got. It seems ridiculous to claim we'd have won our final if he'd played considering the AFL form we saw. Maybe he would improve heaps. Maybe he wasn't quite ready yet. None of us can know that. He didn't exactly live up to some of the hype when he had his opportunity. Of course people "want him to succeed" but all the hype in the world won't make that happen.
 
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