They have been the last month or so. I think his positioning has been too aggressive- that shouldnt be too hard to fix, and our pressure up field has been ordinary.
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Noah Balta - Welcome to Tigerland
- Thread starter RICHO_12
- Start date
So you think intercept marks are more important than goals.
Gibcus would already be as strong as Ridley.
I'm only taking down those blokes in the context of role. They're not up to being CHF. Balta is.
An interesting take is criticising the non-drafting of van Rooyen (and a fair point) but then not wanting to play a bloke forward who is capable of matching if not exceeding JVR's output.
Larkey 6.1
King 6.1
JUH 5.1
Petty 6.0
Lewis 4.2
Allen 3.1
Daniher 5.1
All post bye. It’s damning.
Yeah it is. Since Mini has taken over our midfield transition and ability to fold back has been shocking. I think some of this is the issue as well.
Amazing conversion.
From memory theres some loose balls/goose goals but also too many marks close to goal.
We're not forcing the forwards out wide onto the 50 and we're not coming in 3rd man over the top.
Balta is prpbably trying to do too much. Ever since he took over as the #1 interceptor.Brod's got a good point his positioning is agressive.
But also we have less midfield pressure and fast incoming ball.
And the bad coaches have split and spread our defence.
We can't rely on Lynch hitting the logos and taking contested marks on the wings. With his injury concerns and ageing body he should be anchored to the goal square with Balta running the wings as the high CHF and doubling back taking intercept marks in our forward line. I'd give Richo a mentoring role over the summer.
According to AFL stats, Young has had 8 (12.9%) contested defensive losses this year. Balta has had 24 which is equal second highest in the league. His CDL % is 31.6% which is also right up there with the worst in the league.
Agree that defensive a team effort but geez, Balta is letting the team down.
That highlights the biggest problem here.
We have had Balta attempting to play two roles, the interceptor and key stopper. Not even Alex Rance had to play both roles, he had DTLD Astbury playing on the big boys so he could do everything else. As good as Balta is, he still isn't Alex Rance.
I reckon we have three options. The first is have Noah play a primarily stopping role and find another interceptor, perhaps this is what they earmarked Brown for.
The second is for Balta to play as the interceptor and have Young take the primary forward. And the third ( and the one I prefer) is Spooks idea of playing up Noah forward. He has the potential to be a 40 goal a year key forward who can be a weapon defensively and not many clubs have the luxury of playing guys like that down back. I would add that we certainly don't.
there are a few contributing factors
the sheer no. of inside 50 entries
the ease of some of those I50 entries
some over aggressive positioning from Noah
a higher turner over rate from our back 6 than we are used to
Larkey , King and JUH all had some gifts fall in their laps , no fault from our defense
Petty - I'd concede he had a great night , he took several strong marks and kicked truly (albeit usually from not far out)
Grimmes is down on previous form and not giving some of the chop outs he used to
Grimmes , Astbury , Rance & Vlas did get something of a well oiled machine happening and we now see how great they were together
Balta & Young have upset that mix (or haven't got it going yet) Broad and Vlas are great but cant do it all
you add it all up and it looks like a 12th placed team :-(
I think the one that is fixable is some of those super easy forward 50 entries
we are trying to rush the ball forward on transition and typically one of our young guys turns it over eg (Young , Mansell, Banks, Clarke, Ralph-Smith ...)
oh for a little poise with ball in hand
It can change I think Ross was a turn over guy and has changed during this season so hope for the others if they settle at AFL level
I've always thought that, ideally, Balta would spend much of his time between the arcs.
From memory, we've been relatively weak in the air between the arcs, and a mobile tall would help here.
I ran this thought experiment the other day - imagine if, say, Melbourne suddenly had Balta, where would they play him, if at all?
Assuming they didn't need him as a key back or forward, which I don't think they would, I reckon he'd get a game on the wing or as a high half forward, and play a big role between the arcs. Probably do some relief rucking as well.
This is where Miller's lack of intent and consistency have been so disappointing. On paper, Miller would be providing the support currently missing. The longtime absence of Tarrant, Gibcus and Lynch created a golden opportunity for Miller to use this year to grow into a genuine AFL player ... a tall, mobile utility ... but it hasn't happened.
Its a question of where and how to deploy our highest quality assets.
With the retirement of Jack and Cotch and the dramatic drop off in form of Grimes, and the beginning of hints of same from fellow stalwarts Broad, Prestia and NV, we are now far worse equipped than we were in 21. Far worse.
From those remaining it is only Balta, Bolton, Broad, Gibcus, Hopper, Lynch Nankervis, Dan Rioli, Prestia, Short, Taranto, NV and I now include Ross and Young, who are guaranteed selection when available.
Thats 10 short. And it showed almost as soon as Lynch went down, just how undermanned and vulnerable we had become.
Some think a focus on defence is the right way to go. Get on top in defence
and strangle their forwards... To me defence and mid field are important, but not as important as getting the forward line right. And I think we saw it this year, where we became as ineffective as a team as we have been at any point over the last 30 years.
Some seemed to think our problems there would all be resolved when Lynch came back, and later in the year (for next season), when it was thought that Himmelburg would come and join us.
But Lynch's injury went on and on and perhaps because of our ineptitude in his absence, Himmelburg is now staying put.
Noah's is now one of the very few tall assets remaining and his very special skillset make it possible for him to have an impact wherever he plays.
I would like to see him stay as a back, but we don't have two of him and our forward line, even with Lynch returning, imo has the greater need..
Expect Lynch, Balta, Bauer and Bolton to join forces playing forward next year, hopefully early next year, and Gibcus to return and play back, where he will join Broad, NV, Dan, Shorty and Young, and possibly Brown and Trezise.
Out of the ashes something should catch.
I know you're not suggesting it, but it would be insane to waste someone of Balta's athletic capabilities and X-factor as a stopping defender.
That's what Tylar Young is for. You can find stoppers for late picks, rookie picks or as cheap free agents. And we should.
Balta either needs to be an intercept/rebounder (as Rancey was) or a forward. That's the dichotomy. (Yes he could be a ruck/wing/whatever had we the luxury of an excess of KPP).
For us, I don't think it so much comes down to Balta's best position, as it does to needs. How much do we need rebound? We have Short, who's elite. Rioli, who's elite. Do you need more than two? Does Balta ever actually rebound? Or does he just mark and boot it (slash turn it over)?
His intercepting is a massive, massive bonus. The single argument for him staying back. Can we deal without it?
Next year's backline without Balta could be:
Brown Young Vlastuin
Rioli Gibcus Short
Bench: Broad
You could throw Grimes, Miller, Biggie as back ups, bench etc. (I have retired Grimes prematurely, a season is a long time).
This backline has intercepting, rebound and stopping (though Young is critical, and Vlossy and Gibcus will be asked to stop more than than is hoped). If Gibcus is going to live up to his potential, he should be able to go shoulder to shoulder with big blokes as well.
Consider our forward line next year without Balta:
Coulthard? Bauer Baker
_______ (Lynch) Cumberland
I'm calling Lynch a 31 year old crock next year. But hopefully he's in there too.
Dusty will be there part time (in lieu of a Gold Coast retirement).
I don't think we get a choice. Balta must be a forward.
I think that is conclusion that I have come to CT.
I would also add that this year Balta has lost 30% of his contests. That is massive, and I would be very surprised if anyone has won a Premiership with their number 1 defender losing 1 in 3 contests.
So for me, his intercepting has come at a cost that isn't sustainable.
I'm feeling the same as most on here now having been a staunch keep him at Full Back guy for years.
I do think there's a degree of burn out at the end of a long season and also he has been asked to do a lot with Grimes dropping off and Young starting out.
However, I don't think we would be responsible if we didn't give him a better go forward along with a good pre season there.
It was only against North but the leads were great. We know he has an iron grip and is a great 2nd grabber too. Not bad off the deck either.
We have recruited some players with better skills such as Clarke Banks and Brown so delivery should be better in coming years.
I remember him being interviewed after the Geelong match this year - another one when he started poorly but came back strongly - against Hawkins. He talked about studying Hawkins when learning to be a forward in his junior years so he knows the theory.
There will always be brain fades but the positives could be team changing.
I do think there's a degree of burn out at the end of a long season and also he has been asked to do a lot with Grimes dropping off and Young starting out.
However, I don't think we would be responsible if we didn't give him a better go forward along with a good pre season there.
It was only against North but the leads were great. We know he has an iron grip and is a great 2nd grabber too. Not bad off the deck either.
We have recruited some players with better skills such as Clarke Banks and Brown so delivery should be better in coming years.
I remember him being interviewed after the Geelong match this year - another one when he started poorly but came back strongly - against Hawkins. He talked about studying Hawkins when learning to be a forward in his junior years so he knows the theory.
There will always be brain fades but the positives could be team changing.
Rance played as the key stopped when he had too- but he typically played as the deepest defender on whichever forward went there- except against the Swans where he went wherever Franklin went.
and plenty were gifts from the umpire- Larkey should be embarrassed by the free against KMac.
Assuming our new coach isn't Mini, it will be very interesting to see what the newbie has in mind, to get the most out of our assets, especially beasts like Balta. I imagine that, in order to sell themselves to the panel choosing the coach, each applicant will be outlining where they see our relative strengths and weaknesses in terms of gameplan, playing list, etc. Hopefully, the successful applicant can see a near-term future that isn't quite as doom and gloom as it may currently appear.
