Melbourne Publiic Transport Infrastructure | PUNT ROAD END | Richmond Tigers Forum
  • IMPORTANT // Please look after your loved ones, yourself and be kind to others. If you are feeling that the world is too hard to handle there is always help - I implore you not to hesitate in contacting one of these wonderful organisations Lifeline and Beyond Blue ... and I'm sure reaching out to our PRE community we will find a way to help. T.

Melbourne Publiic Transport Infrastructure

tigertim said:
The trains run roughly 5 minutes apart even off peak. But yes, I was wondering at what the system cost to have such frequent services when the Melbourne system runs at a loss with far infrequent service.

Each tram/bus/train us fairly well populated but I don't think even excellent fares revenue cover the costs of providing such a system.

why does public transport have to cover the costs? do roads cover their costs?

an improved public transport system will lead to increased patronage which will lead to less demand on roads which will lead to less need to spend money on roads.
major investment needs to be made and soon to ensure public transport is trusted by the masses who at the moment prefer to spend their time sitting in carparks also known as freeways in the city.
 
rosy23 said:
You are correct that I don't live in Melbourne. You are incorrect if you assume I don't use public transport quite regularly in Melbourne. I use it a lot more that relatives I have living in Melbourne so location isn't necessarily a measure of experiencing the system.

I disagree we could sustain around the clock 2-3 minute services. I've been on our system quite enough to know that there are a lot of vacant seats on many non-peak hour services.

ok perhaps not around the clock, but definitely from 6am-8pm hours on business days.

Brodders17 said:
why does public transport have to cover the costs? do roads cover their costs?

an improved public transport system will lead to increased patronage which will lead to less demand on roads which will lead to less need to spend money on roads.
major investment needs to be made and soon to ensure public transport is trusted by the masses who at the moment prefer to spend their time sitting in carparks also known as freeways in the city.

yep. i always thought governments were generally supposed to make decisions designed to improve the quality of life for the masses now and into the future. unfortunately, they only care about holding onto power now, meaning they always neglect the future. public transport has been neglected for decades because they all know it'll many years to fix the problem and they will out of office by then.
 
Ian4 said:
.....
to answer your question re every 2-3 mins: 'Do you think our population would make that kind of service feasible?' the answer is yes.
....

I don't know about trains and buses but figures from Yarra Trams this week indicate 500,000 passengers on 32,000 tram services each week. An average of 15 people...if my maths is correct.
 
rosy23 said:
I don't know about trains and buses but figures from Yarra Trams this week indicate 500,000 passengers on 32,000 tram services each week. An average of 15 people...if my maths is correct.

not sure how they quantify that because some people travel a couple of stops and some go the whole route. i catch the number 19 tram to work and i get on 6-8 stops from the terminus and i don't always get a seat. by the time it reaches royal pde its like sardines. and they do run every 5 mis in peak. although i blame metro for this as upfield line trains only run every 18 mins in peak hour, so people (including me) jump on the more frequently running trams.

admittedly, trams aren't the problem. trams services in melbourne are generally pretty good. its the trains and buses. i temporarily lived with my brother and his wife in tarneit 2 years ago and the bus that takes me to the train station runs every 40 mins at all times of the day including peak hour (and doesn't run at all after 8pm). and it was unreliable... it sometimes ran 5 mins early and as much as 15 mins late.
 
I use public transport infrequently, probably more so overseas.

Without having to depend on it, the services aren't bad, without being flash.
My lay feeling about our systems overall is that "bugger all" has been spent on their maintenance over the decades and that we are relying on decades old infrastructure.

From a Melbourne point of view, our city is sprawling quickly. When the Epping line and station was completed 'yonks' ago, Epping was considered the rural outskirts of Melbourne. However, in the north, Melbourne is sprawling well past Epping, South Morang, Whittlesea, etc, but the train lines don't appear to be extending out further.

I've mentioned this years ago, but I still believe a world class public service infrastructure can be judged by a train linking its major airport to the CBD. If it doesn't exist, you are a 2nd world class city. For those who have been to Los Angeles, you will agree that its infrastructure is 2nd class, and it is now clearly a 2nd class city, as compared to Shanghai, Tokyo, Paris, New York, London, etc.

In Australia, we tend to live in a figurative form of cocoon. Quite similar to Americans, in a way. We have amazing self confidence, but when we travel overseas, we realise how technically backward our infrastructure is; not only our public transport infrastructure, but our overall infrastructure.
I've also heard the argument of "a big country, small population", but our populations are very, very concentrated into small pockets.

That's how I see it. No doubt, others will see it differently.
 
4 million people today and the system's falling over.
8 million by 2050.
At what point do we (meaning the Politicians) start planning?
In 2049?
How long does it to take to plan a network capable of carrying 8 million?

If I can ask these questions and I'm just an average bloke then when are Governments - past, present and future - going to do likewise?

Comparisons with other cities are meaningless. We should just focus on our needs because every City is different with unique issues.
 
Phantom said:
From a Melbourne point of view, our city is sprawling quickly. When the Epping line and station was completed 'yonks' ago, Epping was considered the rural outskirts of Melbourne. However, in the north, Melbourne is sprawling well past Epping, South Morang, Whittlesea, etc, but the train lines don't appear to be extending out further.

Totally agree with most on this broken record. Nothing changes no matter which government you vote in.

They took years of stalling before building a South Morang station (completed in 2012) which is now too late and useless, as population has spread further north.

We've become so behind in that now we're prioritising the ticket system (Myki) on the agenda rather than the infrastructure.
 
People complain about trains, sheesh the bloody tram system on one of if not the busiest routes is a disgrace. Yesterday caught my usual 96 tram from the corner of Spencer and Bourke -tram packed. Magically,somewhere along Bourke Street the tram turned into a 96a which terminates at Melbourne Museum. We were left waiting in the hot sun for the next tram. In this time I had a pregnant lady almost collapse whilst we waited. A group of us passengers took her over to sit under a tree in Carlton gardens whilst giving her water and fanning her. She refused a ambulance to be called and she seemed to recover fairly quickly. Luckily one of the new trams on the route cam along next which had adequate air conditioning so we all boarded and made sure she had a seat and kept her fluids up and fanning her and by the time she was ready to get off the tram she was ok. A lovely lady decided to walk her to her appartment.

Then today i get on one of Yarra Trams Berty Beatles (yellow tram). 41 degrees and absolutely no air conditioning. Disgusting. I finished up getting off along Spring St and waited for the next tram to eventually come along. Just disgusting that the public have to put up with such 3rd world conditions for the price we get ripped off on.

The problems along this route has gotten worse i have noted since November last year with trams cancelled, turning up late and not having proper air con. I've put in a complaint via their web site but I have on several occassions in the last few months with no real satisfactory reasons as to what they are doing to improve their bloody poor services.

They have their "results" of tram services up showing every month but it is, as far as I am concerned, propaganda at the very least.
 
poppa x said:
4 million people today and the system's falling over.
8 million by 2050.
At what point do we (meaning the Politicians) start planning?
In 2049?
How long does it to take to plan a network capable of carrying 8 million?

If I can ask these questions and I'm just an average bloke then when are Governments - past, present and future - going to do likewise?

Comparisons with other cities are meaningless. We should just focus on our needs because every City is different with unique issues.

True poppa but the kind of work needed to fix and then future proof our rail network is massive. The expenditure would be astronomical. I can see it now..."where is the cost/benefit analysis?".
 
Browndog said:
People complain about trains, sheesh the bloody tram system on one of if not the busiest routes is a disgrace. Yesterday caught my usual 96 tram from the corner of Spencer and Bourke -tram packed. Magically,somewhere along Bourke Street the tram turned into a 96a which terminates at Melbourne Museum. We were left waiting in the hot sun for the next tram. In this time I had a pregnant lady almost collapse whilst we waited. A group of us passengers took her over to sit under a tree in Carlton gardens whilst giving her water and fanning her. She refused a ambulance to be called and she seemed to recover fairly quickly. Luckily one of the new trams on the route cam along next which had adequate air conditioning so we all boarded and made sure she had a seat and kept her fluids up and fanning her and by the time she was ready to get off the tram she was ok. A lovely lady decided to walk her to her appartment.

Great that everyone got together to help this lady out though, well done.
 
Browndog said:
People complain about trains, sheesh the bloody tram system on one of if not the busiest routes is a disgrace. Yesterday caught my usual 96 tram from the corner of Spencer and Bourke -tram packed. Magically,somewhere along Bourke Street the tram turned into a 96a which terminates at Melbourne Museum. We were left waiting in the hot sun for the next tram. In this time I had a pregnant lady almost collapse whilst we waited. A group of us passengers took her over to sit under a tree in Carlton gardens whilst giving her water and fanning her. She refused a ambulance to be called and she seemed to recover fairly quickly. Luckily one of the new trams on the route cam along next which had adequate air conditioning so we all boarded and made sure she had a seat and kept her fluids up and fanning her and by the time she was ready to get off the tram she was ok. A lovely lady decided to walk her to her appartment.

Then today i get on one of Yarra Trams Berty Beatles (yellow tram). 41 degrees and absolutely no air conditioning. Disgusting. I finished up getting off along Spring St and waited for the next tram to eventually come along. Just disgusting that the public have to put up with such 3rd world conditions for the price we get ripped off on.

The problems along this route has gotten worse i have noted since November last year with trams cancelled, turning up late and not having proper air con. I've put in a complaint via their web site but I have on several occassions in the last few months with no real satisfactory reasons as to what they are doing to improve their bloody poor services.

They have their "results" of tram services up showing every month but it is, as far as I am concerned, propaganda at the very least.

Interesting insight into the problems with the tram service, which I haven't travelled on since my boyhood days.

Changes in service, like your 96 to a 96A, do happen for good reason.
And, as we know, trams travel on car routes, and can be held up by traffic congestion.

However, the issue of the fainting pregnant lady raises the issue of the tram service's liability in case of an emergency.
What liability does it hold?

Also, your boarding of an unairconditioned tram today, being a 40+ day, is a health and safety issue.
I hope you report this to a higher authority than the tram service.
 
i used to catch the number 96 tram daily a few years ago when i lived near fitzroy st. i used to get on at st kilda station and it was a bloody nightmare... the trams were constanly packed like sardines in the morning. it got that bad that i got into the habit of letting trams go past in the hope the next one will be quieter. the worst time was in the winter when the AC wasn't turned on and the all the bodies in thick winter clothing turned the place into a sauna. as for the bumble bee trams, the AC isn't spread evenly throughout in the trams. i noticed the AC was fine in the middle, but you couldn't feel it on either end.
 
antman said:
Great that everyone got together to help this lady out though, well done.

Thanks antman but it was what anyone (i would hope) would do. I felt terrible for the lady but she was ok by the time she departed the tram which was great.
 
Phantom said:
Interesting insight into the problems with the tram service, which I haven't travelled on since my boyhood days.

Changes in service, like your 96 to a 96A, do happen for good reason.
And, as we know, trams travel on car routes, and can be held up by traffic congestion.

However, the issue of the fainting pregnant lady raises the issue of the tram service's liability in case of an emergency.
What liability does it hold?

Also, your boarding of an unairconditioned tram today, being a 40+ day, is a health and safety issue.
I hope you report this to a higher authority than the tram service.

The liability question is very valid. I'm not sure on this but Yarra Trams need to be very very careful in the services or lack of they provide.

As to the unairconditioned tram, i am waiting on a response from them ( I actually put in a complaint in this instance and the pregnant lady incident as one). From their response will be how i handle the situation from that point. I find it totally unacceptable that any tram should pick up passengers in 41 degree heat with absolutely no air conditioning ( that answers Ian's scenario that some of the yellow trams have air conditioning in some parts of the tram and not others as there was just absolutetly no air blowing through that tram whatsoever - it was unbearable and that is why i only lasted to Lonsdale Street).

The trams are constantly packed through peak hour, much like the trains but with less seats now.
 
Sorry guys and girls but i dont know how to reply to multiple posts in one post therefore the two or now three posts. :-\
 
My employer told us to go home at 3:30pm today due to the heat and problems with the transport. I quickly made my way over to my usual stop at the corner of Bourke & Spencer Street where both the 86 and 96 come through. I was thinking that if a 96 didnt come through early enough i would catch a 86 down to Swanston St and catch a no 1 or 8 up to where i needed. After waiting for 30 minutes for either tram to come through i gave up. Decided to walk down to Swanston St. Luckily before i got to Queen Street a 96 come through. Yarra trams are a disgrace to this city. And this all when people are waiting in 43 degree heat.
 
http://m.heraldsun.com.au/news/victoria/labor-pledges-24hour-weekend-public-transport-for-melbourne-if-it-wins-november-election/story-fni0fit3-1226805009743
 
Ian4 said:
http://m.heraldsun.com.au/news/victoria/labor-pledges-24hour-weekend-public-transport-for-melbourne-if-it-wins-november-election/story-fni0fit3-1226805009743

Yeah like any party in opposition will tell the masses what they want to hear and then when in office will go back on it or water it down significantly due to cost, feasibility, etc.

Best thing I ever did to deal with public transport and traffic in Melbourne was move to coastal SW Vic!

Back to CBD Melbourne every could of weeks for work and is a good reminder of what I don't miss.
 
WesternTiger said:
Yeah like any party in opposition will tell the masses what they want to hear and then when in office will go back on it or water it down significantly due to cost, feasibility, etc.

Best thing I ever did to deal with public transport and traffic in Melbourne was move to coastal SW Vic!

Back to CBD Melbourne every could of weeks for work and is a good reminder of what I don't miss.

agree re govts. i see myself doing a tree change when i get closer to retirement. infact, it'll come sooner rather than later if i ever leave my job (19 years and counting).
 
poppa x said:
4 million people today and the system's falling over.
8 million by 2050.
At what point do we (meaning the Politicians) start planning?
In 2049?
How long does it to take to plan a network capable of carrying 8 million?

If I can ask these questions and I'm just an average bloke then when are Governments - past, present and future - going to do likewise?

Comparisons with other cities are meaningless. We should just focus on our needs because every City is different with unique issues.

Agree with all of this and think the same, except the comparisons being meaningless. Every city is different of course, but comparisons are still valid and necessary.

While on comparisons; if Hong Kong has a current model Rolls Royce, Melbourne has 2005 Camry, here in Brisbane we have a 1978 4cyl Cortina with a dodgy starter solenoid and stuffed shockers. Its woeful.

well done Browney, nice one.