Marriage Equality

[Giardiasis]

Ahh but like so many things Gia, it's good in theory. The question for me is does our current government or recent history of governments represent a good approximation of democracy? I put it to you that it is th party political system that has failed.

Maybe the Swiss have it right? Government by plebiscite? Make the people vote and enact their express wishes?

It's not about how close to democracy you get, but how close to liberty do you get. The Swiss model is better because it is far less centralised than ours. More direct democracy is not in itself the key, it works better in Switzerland than it would here because the Swiss love liberty far more than Australian's do.

 

[MD Jazz]

It would result in a parliamentary vote. After that I wouldn't have a clue how the pollies would vote.

Cool.

 

[Brodders17]

If the majority of Australian vote against allowing marriage equality the Libs will not allow a vote in parliament for over 5years if they win the next election.
iF the majority of Australians vote yes, the Libs will allow a vote, but individual members will vote however they want.

And Harry still waiting to hear why you dont thin this should be discussed in schools?

 

[KnightersRevenge]

You're right Knighter. I think the entire reason this has been done, is due to some compromise deal in the Lib\Nats behind the scenes. I think Turnbull wants to vote in Parliament, but the others won't. If he gets a yes vote through this poll, he can force the others into acting via Parliament. Essentially the "yes" vote in a poll would give him mandate for change. And a no vote would reinforce the conservatives approach and cause no change - for the rest of this period in Parliament. After the next election, who knows what would happen.

Cheers General. I know I've been pretty antagonistic on this thread but I hope you know that is just my style and I truly mean no offence. I want everyone to feel they can express their opinion openly. I might disagree and I may push the boundaries but I am always hoping people will engage and state their case and fight their corner.

The postal survey to me is a giant expensive fig leaf to hide the embarrassment of a party leader who can't control the more conservative voices within his own ranks.

 

[jb03]

Apparently (from Twitter):

COUNTRIES WHERE SSM IS LEGAL
England
Ireland
Canada
America
New Zealand
Norway
Sweden
France
Netherlands
Denmark
Finland
Greenland
Spain
Brazil
Argentina


COUNTRIES WHERE SSM IS NOT LEGAL
Australia
Iran
Iraq
Pakistan
India
Thailand
Ethiopia
Egypt
Nigeria
Kenya
Saudi Arabia
Turkey
Ukraine
Romania
Russia

 

[gutfull]

Yeah most of those countries are pretty much *smile*....the worlds gone mad ...gay schools coming your way bank on it ...

 

[AngryAnt]

Yeah most of those countries are pretty much *smile*ed....the worlds gone mad ...gay schools coming your way bank on it ...

And what about gay banks? They'll be next.

 

[The_General]

Cheers General. I know I've been pretty antagonistic on this thread but I hope you know that is just my style and I truly mean no offence. I want everyone to feel they can express their opinion openly. I might disagree and I may push the boundaries but I am always hoping people will engage and state their case and fight their corner.

The postal survey to me is a giant expensive fig leaf to hide the embarrassment of a party leader who can't control the more conservative voices within his own ranks.

My mum's a pensioner. She comes from a generation where women stayed home to look after kids. Before that she was in a "traditional " womens trade which paid very low. She has no superannuation at all. She lives fortnight to fortnight, with the odd top up by me or one of my two brothers to help her get by. Some nights she decides if she can afford to have more than eggs on toast for dinner.
There's a bunch of homeless in Melbourne's CBD looking for shelter, food and medical support.
There's services for victims of domestic abuse dying for funds and not able to help people at their lowest ebb.
There's child refugees who've come from countries where they've served in the army at the age of 12 suffering PTSD and receiving no treatment when we resettle them....

A non-binding survey is a great use of $120 million in hindsight. :

 

[AngryAnt]

How about 9.6 billion spent by Peter Dutton to keep several hundred refugees locked up on Manus island.

Imagine how many schools and hospitals in Australia that money could have been used for.

 

[LeeToRainesToRoach]

The postal survey to me is a giant expensive fig leaf to hide the embarrassment of a party leader who can't control the more conservative voices within his own ranks.

You've got the AFL attempting to impose its definition of the debate on us when many of its followers frame it very differently. Then Shorten coming out in support of the AFL. It's a very politically-charged topic. Putting it to a vote is the right thing to do.

 

[KnightersRevenge]

You've got the AFL attempting to impose its definition of the debate on us when many of its followers frame it very differently. Then Shorten coming out in support of the AFL. It's a very politically-charged topic. Putting it to a vote is the right thing to do.

So dump this waste of space 'survey' (too late) and campaign on it at the next election. People can vote based on that.

 

[KnightersRevenge]

My mum's a pensioner. She comes from a generation where women stayed home to look after kids. Before that she was in a "traditional " womens trade which paid very low. She has no superannuation at all. She lives fortnight to fortnight, with the odd top up by me or one of my two brothers to help her get by. Some nights she decides if she can afford to have more than eggs on toast for dinner.
There's a bunch of homeless in Melbourne's CBD looking for shelter, food and medical support.
There's services for victims of domestic abuse dying for funds and not able to help people at their lowest ebb.
There's child refugees who've come from countries where they've served in the army at the age of 12 suffering PTSD and receiving no treatment when we resettle them....

A non-binding survey is a great use of $120 million in hindsight. :

Sometimes the 'either/or' argument is just a rhetorical tool but I'm with you on this General. I just can't see any justification for the use of this money for this particular issue. Such a waste.

 

[Harry]

So dump this waste of space 'survey' (too late) and campaign on it at the next election. People can vote based on that.

Agree

 

[Brodders17]

People can vote based on that.

i dont agree. elections are never, and should never be, about 1 issue.

 

[Baloo]

It's not about how close to democracy you get, but how close to liberty do you get. The Swiss model is better because it is far less centralised than ours. More direct democracy is not in itself the key, it works better in Switzerland than it would here because the Swiss love liberty far more than Australian's do.

Switzerland is the last country I thought you'd back Gia man. So many levels of taxation it's not funny. they even tax you based on your stated religious beliefs. And the laws of the land are based on what's best for the community, not the individual.

 

[Ian4]

And/or selfish, yes.

I'm not voting no but I don't agree with that. Everyone has the right to have their own standards, morals and beliefs. They could perceive them to be for the betterment of society as a whole rather than anything that will affect them personally. The judgement and bullying certainly won't help inform them or sway their opinions imo. It's been way over the top.

I do agree with that. If you are against SSM for religious reasons, I can sorta accept that. but Australia is a secular county where religion (should in theory) have no say when it comes to making law. aside from religion, no one has ever provided me with a logical reason for voting no. so if you are voting no for something that will have absolutely no affect on your life... then yes, you are being completely selfish and you deserve the ridicule and condemnation that comes your way.

So you don't agree with the basic premise that an overwhelming YES vote would result in the law being changed?

not under this government. This postal vote is all about the conservative side of the LNP trying to delay the inevitable for as long as they can. but its a certainty to happen within 2-5 years anyway, which makes this postal vote a waste of time and money.

 

[Giardiasis]

Switzerland is the last country I thought you'd back Gia man. So many levels of taxation it's not funny. they even tax you based on your stated religious beliefs. And the laws of the land are based on what's best for the community, not the individual.

Eh, no the last country I would back would be a closely fought contest between North Korea, Zimbabwe, Venezuela, Syria etc. Where did I back Switzerland anyway? I said it was better than Australia.

 

[Coburgtiger]

Yeah most of those countries are pretty much *smile*ed....the worlds gone mad ...gay schools coming your way bank on it ...

Why do you keep posting this garbage? What is a 'gay school'? Why would they suddenly appear? And why are they bad?

 

[AngryAnt]

Why do you keep posting this garbage? What is a 'gay school'? Why would they suddenly appear? And why are they bad?

[youtube=560,315]lODloXGi20E[/youtube]

 

[The_General]

a) Why do you keep posting this garbage?
b) What is a 'gay school'?
c) Why would they suddenly appear?
d) And why are they bad?

A) No idea why Gia said it.
b) a really fun school to be at?
c) Because normal schools are boring?
d) all play and no work = a stupid country full of dole bludgers.

There, hope that helps.