Marriage Equality

[Rosy]

The church vows are worthless. the ceremony at the church has no standing in law. it is the signing of paper.
churches will still be able to refuse to hold ceremonies for whoever they wish, as they do now.
this will be just another change to the marriage act. i do wonder if we had the same debates when Aboriginals were first allowed to marry 'whites'.

I was more referring to what many people hold special about getting married. I wasn't aware there was a specific permission allowing whites to marry aboriginals. When did it come in?

 

[Coburgtiger]

So everyone voting no is stupid?

Ok.

And/or selfish, yes.

 

[Rosy]

And/or selfish, yes.

I'm not voting no but I don't agree with that. Everyone has the right to have their own standards, morals and beliefs. They could perceive them to be for the betterment of society as a whole rather than anything that will affect them personally. The judgement and bullying certainly won't help inform them or sway their opinions imo. It's been way over the top.

 

[Rosy]

......
My pecker is made for my wife not another Man.

I find it quite interesting that people judge marriage on perceived sexual acts. Would you feel differently about same sex relationships if they were celibate?

 

[Coburgtiger]

I'm not voting no but I don't agree with that. Everyone has the right to have their own standards, morals and beliefs. They could perceive them to be for the betterment of society as a whole rather than anything that will affect them personally. The judgement and bullying certainly won't help inform them or sway their opinions imo. It's been way over the top.

Of course they have a right to it. As I said, it's okay to vote no. We live in a free society. You can have your opinions and beliefs, and you can voice them.

And they can also be selfish and stupid.

I have the right not to offer my seat in the tram to the elderly. I have the right to go on TV and say that all Muslims are terrorists. I have the right to say the earth is flat. I have the right to believe aboriginal people shouldn't be allowed to vote, and that women shouldn't be allowed to play football.

All of these things are either selfish, or stupid, but still okay in our society.

So yes, it's okay to vote no.

 

[Rosy]

.......
And they can also be selfish and stupid.

.....

Of course they can be. They also may not be. Hard to make an accurate blanket judgement, based on our own beliefs, without knowing the reasoning behind others' opinions. Silly to say "everyone" voting no is stupid or selfish imo.

 

[1eyedtiger]

As I said, it's okay to vote no. We live in a free society.

Well, this is just the point. It ISN'T a free society. If it was, gay people would be FREE to get married.

Civil rights shouldn't be determined by votes. Where do you draw the line at butting your noses into other people's lives and telling them what they can and can't do?

 

[AngryAnt]

Well, this is just the point. It ISN'T a free society. If it was, gay people would be FREE to get married.

Excellent summation 1eyed.

 

[Rosy]

Well, this is just the point. It ISN'T a free society. If it was, gay people would be FREE to get married.

Civil rights shouldn't be determined by votes. Where do you draw the line at butting your noses into other people's lives and telling them what they can and can't do?

:clapping

 

[Giardiasis]

Civil rights shouldn't be determined by votes. Where do you draw the line at butting your noses into other people's lives and telling them what they can and can't do?

Democracy isn't all it's cracked up to be eh?

 

[MD Jazz]

That's a really, really poor analogy and insulting as well. Again, with attitudes like this, can you not see the damage that it could do to people who are championing the yes vote?

Again with the I'm gonna vote no just to spite the yes promoters. Brilliant.

It's OK to not want your marriage diminished by gay people, just don't expect it to pass without question.

 

[The_General]

Again with the I'm gonna vote no just to spite the yes promoters. Brilliant.

It's OK to not want your marriage diminished by gay people, just don't expect it to pass without question.

MD Jazz - I'm not saying it can't go without question. What I'm saying is - don't belittle people in that process. Calling people "stupid" because you disagree with their opinion is both childish and disrespectful. If you can't have a debate without sinking to childish responses, then I feel sorry for you.

 

[The_General]

Where do you draw the line at butting your noses into other people's lives and telling them what they can and can't do?

Great question 1eyed. Doesn't just apply to the conversation and could be in a thread all on it's own. Sometimes what is best for society may not match what is best for the individual. The old "the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few."

Again, not applying it to this conversation, but I'm sure for each different topic, the line would be different - across the community and in the individuals eyes.

 

[1eyedtiger]

Democracy isn't all it's cracked up to be eh?

Along those lines, I've heard on the radio some people voting no simply because they haven't seen any proposed government legislation yet. Makes me wonder how they vote at election time? :-\

 

[MD Jazz]

MD Jazz - I'm not saying it can't go without question. What I'm saying is - don't belittle people in that process. Calling people "stupid" because you disagree with their opinion is both childish and disrespectful. If you can't have a debate without sinking to childish responses, then I feel sorry for you.

I think people belittle themselves in their defence of their "opinion". There's plenty of religious types whose opinion is that you can cure people of homosexuality through religion. Stupid.

I think its stupid to vote against it simply because you think it diminishes your marriage.

 

[The_General]

I think people belittle themselves in their defence of their "opinion". There's plenty of religious types whose opinion is that you can cure people of homosexuality through religion. Stupid.

I think its stupid to vote against it simply because you think it diminishes your marriage.

If the yes vote fails, and I don't think it will - it will win by some margin. You can look on this attitude as a reason.

 

[Coburgtiger]

MD Jazz - I'm not saying it can't go without question. What I'm saying is - don't belittle people in that process. Calling people "stupid" because you disagree with their opinion is both childish and disrespectful. If you can't have a debate without sinking to childish responses, then I feel sorry for you.

If you don't want to have your opinion called stupid, don't have a stupid opinion.

Just because everyone has the right to an opinion, that doesn't mean every opinion is equally valid. Some are just plain selfish. Some are just plain stupid.

 

[KnightersRevenge]

MD Jazz - I'm not saying it can't go without question. What I'm saying is - don't belittle people in that process. Calling people "stupid" because you disagree with their opinion is both childish and disrespectful. If you can't have a debate without sinking to childish responses, then I feel sorry for you.

[EDIT]

Respect is not my default position General. I have no problem accepting that I'm being disrespectful. Everybody doesn't deserve respect. Malcolm Roberts is an idiot. Donald Trump is an idiot. So is Pauline Hanson. Does Julian Knight deserve 'respect' by default? No. The default position is to reserve judgement. All ideas, opinions even people need to be examined and challenged. Only after analysis do they, maybe, achieve respect. You can be accommodating without being 'respectful'.

It seems as though some people find it difficult to separate the idea from the person. You can think Islam is a 'motherload of bad ideas' without being disrespectful or hateful towards 'muslims'. I am sure all religions are bad ideas. But I am not unkind to Christians or Muslims or Hindus or Buddhists. I have, or have had, friends or family in all of those groups. But I am not respectful about those ideas.

What seems stupid or selfish to me is for people with no skin in the game to think other people shouldn't be allowed to play. It is that idea that is stupid. Not the person.

Please tell me why you dislike my 'chips' analogy?

 

[KnightersRevenge]

I'm not voting no but I don't agree with that. Everyone has the right to have their own standards, morals and beliefs.

Absolutely, but do they have the right to impose by law their personal standards onto others? Because no voters are choosing to do exactly that. They are not choosing between a right for them OR a right for same-sex couples. This law affects ONLY same-sex couples. It does nothing to existing marriages. Their choice affects ONLY same-sex couples.

They could perceive them to be for the betterment of society as a whole rather than anything that will affect them personally.

Could be, but I'd like to hear that explained? How does keeping one type of relationship in a separate category and legal state to another better society?

The judgement and bullying certainly won't help inform them or sway their opinions imo. It's been way over the top.

I assume some of this is directed me. Even if it isn't I'm amused by the use of 'judgement'. I will ignore bullying, I dont think it applies to me at all. We all judge each other all day every day. It is a perfectly normal human thing to do. We each have standards and values and we observe our friends and neighbours and categorise them against our own moral compass. We invite some people to some parties and not others. We judge who might mix better with what crowd. We judge each other.

 

[Rosy]

Absolutely, but do they have the right to impose by law their personal standards onto others? Because no voters are choosing to do exactly that. They are not choosing between a right for them OR a right for same-sex couples. This law affects ONLY same-sex couples. It does nothing to existing marriages. Their choice affects ONLY same-sex couples.

..........

Is that so? I thought it was more an expression of an opinion or preference rather than a vote that is imposing by law.