Life, The Universe and Everything Else

[Stripes]

"A human being is a part of the whole called by us universe, a part limited in time and space. He experiences himself, his thoughts and feeling as something separated from the rest, a kind of optical delusion of his consciousness. This delusion is a kind of prison for us, restricting us to our personal desires and to affection for a few persons nearest to us. Our task must be to free ourselves from this prison by widening our circle of compassion to embrace all living creatures and the whole of nature in its beauty." - Albert Einstein

 

[evo]

People might find this interesting.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=9094692546566908938&q=dan+dennett&total=177&start=0&num=10&so=0&type=search&plindex=4

 

[Disco08]

Cool.

 

[hellenictiger]

Think of this though, how did something become something? Where did it all start from? How did it start those billions and maybe trillions of years ago? They say the big bang but what created that and what created that? You can go on forever.

 

[Panthera tigris FC]

Think of this though, how did something become something? Where did it all start from? How did it start those billions and maybe trillions of years ago? They say the big bang but what created that and what created that? You can go on forever.

Come join us on the Christianity/Atheism threads. The ultimate cause question raises its head quite often. ;D

 

[Harry]

Think of this though, how did something become something? Where did it all start from? How did it start those billions and maybe trillions of years ago? They say the big bang but what created that and what created that? You can go on forever.

Aaah the ultimate question. Something no-one is supposed to know.

The religous ones believe there is a big guy sitting up stairs who created it all. But who/what created the big guy?

The atheists believe that one thing formed into another and so on. But how did the first "thing" become to be?

What's true? Your guess is as good as mine. Don't lose sleep over it.

 

[Tigers of Old]

The religous ones believe there is a big guy sitting up stairs who created it all. But who/what created the big guy?

Good question!?

 

[evo]

The religous ones believe there is a big guy sitting up stairs who created it all. But who/what created the big guy?

Good question!?

The Invisible Pink Unicorn created God of course.

I have not seen said Unicorn and can therefore attest it is indeed invisible.

http://www.palmyria.co.uk/humour/ipu.htm

 

[jayfox]

The religous ones believe there is a big guy sitting up stairs who created it all. But who/what created the big guy?

Good question!?

God is an everlasting spiritual being who is beyond creation, time and space. Our minds can't understand something not being created but misunderstanding does not negate reality.

 

[Panthera tigris FC]

The religous ones believe there is a big guy sitting up stairs who created it all. But who/what created the big guy?

Good question!?

God is an everlasting spiritual being who is beyond creation, time and space. Our minds can't understand something not being created but misunderstanding does not negate reality.

One of your more ironic statements foxy.

 

[Tiger74]

Think of this though, how did something become something? Where did it all start from? How did it start those billions and maybe trillions of years ago? They say the big bang but what created that and what created that? You can go on forever.

Come join us on the Christianity/Atheism threads. The ultimate cause question raises its head quite often. ;D

You sure Christianity has anything at all to do with the answer to the ultimate question ;D

 

[1eyedtiger]

Re: Christianity

1eyedtiger,good to see some new blood.welcome.

Can I ask why you think consciousness needs to be considered within the realm of the physical?

And what is a soul?

It's been quite a while since this topic has been discussed but it seems to me that the Christianity thread keeps coming around to the theory of creation time and time again. Maybe it's time to resurrect the thread.

Evo, I can't provide the answer to what a soul is exactly beyond saying that it is essentially who you are. But in saying this, I don't believe that your current identity (your name for example) has anything to do with your soul. Your identity (In human terms ) is simply how you are referred to at this point in time. When you die, your soul continues but your identity (in human terms) is lost because it is irrelevant. It is just a minor detail that is useful for a short time. These days, I don't really know who I am anymore. When you think about it, a names just a name. It's hard to describe what I feel these days. It's like there's something there, but just out of reach.

Your first question is (As far as I can tell) easier to answer. Your soul (just like everything else) must be considered within the physical realm because (My opinion only) everything must physically exist in order to exist (if that makes sense?) In other words, just to exist, something has to consist of at least one atom (Or electron, proton, neutron. Maybe someone more knowledgeable can assist here.). Even ideas inside your head that don't exist anywhere else in the universe are still contained within the neurons inside your brain.

How can something exist if it doesn't physically exist?

 

[Curtiger]

Re: Christianity

How can something exist if it doesn't physically exist?

Space exists...

Your first question is (As far as I can tell) easier to answer. Your soul (just like everything else) must be considered within the physical realm because (My opinion only) everything must physically exist in order to exist (if that makes sense?) In other words, just to exist, something has to consist of at least one atom (Or electron, proton, neutron. Maybe someone more knowledgeable can assist here.). Even ideas inside your head that don't exist anywhere else in the universe are still contained within the neurons inside your brain.

Another dualist, Rene Descartes, held similar beliefs (Evo should be able to clear that up). He located the soul in the pineal gland (though that totally contradicted his belief that the soul was an immaterial and unextendable entity).
For mine, the idea of a soul (or a molecular soul, at that) doesn't sit right 'cos it's a gift from a God I don't believe in, and is supposed to be what provides me with a higher level of being or intelligence. pssht! If anyone wants mine, they can have it. I'll still be grouse.

ps. Looking back, I notice I've already compared your theory to Descartes. Sorry to be a broken record.

 

[evo]

Funnily enough curtis bear dualism is making a bit of a comeback in the problem of consciousness.

it's a bloody mindfield this problem,the more I look into it the weirder it gets.

PS things don't objectively exist. ;D

 

[evo]

Re: Christianity

Evo, I can't provide the answer to what a soul is exactly beyond saying that it is essentially who you are. But in saying this, I don't believe that your current identity (your name for example) has anything to do with your soul. Your identity (In human terms ) is simply how you are referred to at this point in time. When you die, your soul continues but your identity (in human terms) is lost because it is irrelevant. It is just a minor detail that is useful for a short time. These days, I don't really know who I am anymore. When you think about it, a names just a name. It's hard to describe what I feel these days. It's like there's something there, but just out of reach.

What you seem to be saying is a soul is ineffable,which is fair enough.

But you also say it continues after death,ergo this indescribable thing is not physical.It's metaphysical,a 'spririt'.

Your first question is (As far as I can tell) easier to answer. Your soul (just like everything else) must be considered within the physical realm because (My opinion only) everything must physically exist in order to exist (if that makes sense?)

Not in light of what you just described the soul as.

In other words, just to exist, something has to consist of at least one atom (Or electron, proton, neutron. Maybe someone more knowledgeable can assist here.).

So the 'soul' has atomic weight? It is indeed a physical thing?

If thats the case wouldn't a neurolgist be able to see it,measure it?

Even ideas inside your head that don't exist anywhere else in the universe are still contained within the neurons inside your brain.

So ideas have atomic weight?They are a physical thing?

How can something exist if it doesn't physically exist?

I don't believe in objective 'things'. Perhaps Pantera can field that 1 for you,I'd be most interested in what he says.

 

[1eyedtiger]

Re: Christianity

So the 'soul' has atomic weight? It is indeed a physical thing?

If thats the case wouldn't a neurolgist be able to see it,measure it?
So ideas have atomic weight?They are a physical thing?

There are lot's of things inside the human body that cannot be seen or measured. I think it also depends on whether the soul is contained in a single unit or is somehow distributed throughout certain regions of the body.

Having atomic weight may not be necessary even though I said it would have to exist physically. Let me use another analogy here.

Computer software in this case.

Computer software exists in whatever medium it is stored within (discs or memory etc.) but doesn't add atomic weight to those items. It exists as states of 1s and 0s within that medium. But it still physically exists. Maybe the soul exists in a similar way within living creatures. I'm pretty sure it would be a little more complex than that.
Just my theory of course.

 

[evo]

Re: Christianity

Computer software exists in whatever medium it is stored within (discs or memory etc.) but doesn't add atomic weight to those items. It exists as states of 1s and 0s within that medium. But it still physically exists. Maybe the soul exists in a similar way within living creatures. I'm pretty sure it would be a little more complex than that.
Just my theory of course.

It's a problem though, isn't it.

"1's and 0's " aren't physical things-they are symbols,bits of information,abstract.By your definition of only the physical existing then 1,0 can't be said to exist.

If we take it back to the person,then 1 and 0's are like 'ideas'

Are 'ideas' a physical thing in your opinion?

If the floppy disk was say burnt and it shrivelled up would you still consider those 1,0's would still go on existing after the life of the floppy disk?

 

[Disco08]

That's a nice analogy evo.

 

[Panthera tigris FC]

PS things don't objectively exist. ;D

Do you not believe in an objective reality (as difficult as it may be to discern with our limited senses and tools of perception)?

 

[evo]

Do you not believe in an objective reality (as difficult as it may be to discern with our limited senses and tools of perception)?

no

Physicalism/materialism is false.