Indigenous Voice Yes or No?

[Sintiger]

I can't give percentages ,but the fact that child abuse is happening should be the only thing that matters.

I notice you only quoted part of my post,maybe that's because YOU CAN'T answer the rest.

If you took the time to read the website on the voice or even read the rest of this thread you would have the answer.
I am just tired of answering people who don’t do their homework
The Voice is a mechanism to bring together the work of a lot of agencies , different regions etc etc into a process of making sure the views of those effected are represented. That includes the NIAA.

 

[bengal tigers]

If you took the time to read the website on the voice or even read the rest of this thread you would have the answer.
I am just tired of answering people who don’t do their homework
The Voice is a mechanism to bring together the work of a lot of agencies , different regions etc etc into a process of making sure the views of those effected are represented. That includes the NIAA.

The NIAA is suppose to be doing a lot of this stuff already ,l think they have a sitting federal member on their board.
They have ground staff across all states and regions ,the ceo reports directly to Burney.
Didn't the NIAA come about after a Royal commission .

 

[AngryAnt]

If you took the time to read the website on the voice or even read the rest of this thread you would have the answer.
I am just tired of answering people who don’t do their homework
The Voice is a mechanism to bring together the work of a lot of agencies , different regions etc etc into a process of making sure the views of those effected are represented. That includes the NIAA.

On this thread Bengal is a huge waste of space unfortunately. He still hasn't been able to articulate why The Voice would preclude other solutions to problems, and he has no solution to propose apart from his ridiculously authoritarian solutions like breaking up remote indigenous communities and forcing them to relocate into other towns around the various states.

Again I ask the question - where were you Bengal when the LNP was in power? They did nothing for eleven years. The ALP has already increased funding to indigenous communities in a whole range of policy areas - and your silence on this has been profound. In less that one year in government the ALP has done more to help indigenous people than the LNP did in 11, and they will give them a Voice to parliament and constitutional recognition.

Like Dutton, you use the situation of indigenous people in Australia as an excuse to block the Voice and you have nothing to propose instead.

 

[DavidSSS]

As for the rest of the frame work ,they have the NIAA already which is suppose to address a lot of the issues ,with the exception of constitution recognition.

Home page | NIAA

The National Indigenous Australians Agency (NIAA) works in genuine partnership to enable the self-determination and aspirations of First Nations communities. We implement the Australian Governments’ priorities and support the Minister for Indigenous Australians.

www.niaa.gov.au

So many indigenous organisations over the years, one thing they have in common is that they get ignored by governments at every level. That is why it needs to be in the constitution, so they, hopefully, won't get ignored as much.

DS

 

[bengal tigers]

On this thread Bengal is a huge waste of space unfortunately. He still hasn't been able to articulate why The Voice would preclude other solutions to problems, and he has no solution to propose apart from his ridiculously authoritarian solutions like breaking up remote indigenous communities and forcing them to relocate into other towns around the various states.

Again I ask the question - where were you Bengal when the LNP was in power? They did nothing for eleven years. The ALP has already increased funding to indigenous communities in a whole range of policy areas - and your silence on this has been profound. In less that one year in government the ALP has done more to help indigenous people than the LNP did in 11, and they will give them a Voice to parliament and constitutional recognition.

Like Dutton, you use the situation of indigenous people in Australia as an excuse to block the Voice and you have nothing to propose instead.

I really don't want to answer you,l have to bite my tongue.
The Coalition where proposing a Local and regional voice back in 2019-2020 but of course covid hit,and changed every ones lives,so I guess thats the way they want to remain.
I really don't give a *smile* what side of politics your on ,But Dutton and Price calling out child abuse should not be ridiculed ,l haven't noticed any Federal Labor taking cheap shots at them ,only the NT labor ,and a couple of them are divided .

As for the Voice maybe only Indigenous people should vote ,because it only effects them.

 

[bengal tigers]

So many indigenous organisations over the years, one thing they have in common is that they get ignored by governments at every level. That is why it needs to be in the constitution, so they, hopefully, won't get ignored as much.

DS

The NIAA is quite new,l think it started when covid hit,so that would have put a lot of restrictions on there ground work ,but yes there are a lot of Indigenous organizations ,l think quite a few of them should be amalgamated

 

[AngryAnt]

I really don't want to answer you,l have to bite my tongue.

All you've done is thrown insults before, why stop now?

The Coalition where proposing a Local and regional voice back in 2019-2020 but of course covid hit,and changed every ones lives,so I guess thats the way they want to remain.
I really don't give a *smile* what side of politics your on ,But Dutton and Price calling out child abuse should not be ridiculed ,l haven't noticed any Federal Labor taking cheap shots at them ,only the NT labor ,and a couple of them are divided .

Yep, the good old LNP excuse - we did nothing about anything because of Covid. And the 8 years before that they also did nothing. And if they ever get back into government they'll still do nothing.

Dutton and Price are using the child abuse issue for selfish political reasons, and everyone knows it. Price did nothing while she was Deputy Mayor of AS, and has done nothing as Senator.

As for the Voice maybe only Indigenous people should vote ,because it only effects them.

In which case it would win 90:10, but we could have had a situation where it won 80:20 with everyone in Australia voting in the referendum and bipartisan support. But as Noel Pearson said, Pete Dutton is only interested in saving his own political hide - he'll fail, but he'll try to do as much damage as possible along the way. The Voice could have had a truly unifying effect and been a springboard for other significant policy change, and I hope it still will, but it's that much harder with tired old culture warriors like you and Dutton doing whatever you can to keep the status quo.

I do fear for your cognitive abilities, as clearly The Voice affects all of us - it's a change to our constitution and the way parliament and the federal government operate, it will give our indigenous people constitution recognition, and has the potential for policies that affect the environment, land use, climate change and our relationship to the land in a positive way.

Try again Bengal- if you have the solution to better help indigenous people and kids, what is it? I've heard nothing from you so far.

 

[Brodders17]

I really don't want to answer you,l have to bite my tongue.
The Coalition where proposing a Local and regional voice back in 2019-2020 but of course covid hit,and changed every ones lives,so I guess thats the way they want to remain.

The Coalition's policy now is for a "Canberra Voice" too, just not in the constitution . You may not know this as they are careful not to mention it as it defeats their other arguments.

I really don't give a *smile* what side of politics your on ,But Dutton and Price calling out child abuse should not be ridiculed ,l haven't noticed any Federal Labor taking cheap shots at them ,only the NT labor ,and a couple of them are divided .

As far as I can see everyone acknowledges child abuse is a serious issue, but Dutton and co are clearly using the issue for politics. Dutton references children being returned to abuse, as you have, but is unable to back that claim up with any evidence. mistakes are certainly made, and i know from past experience the NT child protection system is a bit of a mess, but I am not sure how that is different to any other state's system.

 

[DavidSSS]

Gawd, pulling out the COVID excuse now despite the fact that the LNP were in power for years before that.

Let's face it, Dutton is just pulling out the usual LNP playbook. Like most right wingers they just want to play the authoritarian card because they like controlling people. Good article in The Age today explaining how this is just a rehash of earlier LNP con jobs:

https://www.theage.com.au/national/...nt-intervention-playbook-20230414-p5d0g7.html

DS

 

[bengal tigers]

All you've done is thrown insults before, why stop now?

Because lm not you

Yep, the good old LNP excuse - we did nothing about anything because of Covid. And the 8 years before that they also did nothing. And if they ever get back into government they'll still do nothing.

Dutton and Price are using the child abuse issue for selfish political reasons, and everyone knows it. Price did nothing while she was Deputy Mayor of AS, and has done nothing as Senator.

Excuse ,do you really need a excuse to call out child abuse,your too politically minded .
If Joe Blow down the road come out and said the same thing ,l bet hardly anyone would listen

In which case it would win 90:10, but we could have had a situation where it won 80:20 with everyone in Australia voting in the referendum and bipartisan support. But as Noel Pearson said, Pete Dutton is only interested in saving his own political hide - he'll fail, but he'll try to do as much damage as possible along the way. The Voice could have had a truly unifying effect and been a springboard for other significant policy change, and I hope it still will, but it's that much harder with tired old culture warriors like you and Dutton doing whatever you can to keep the status quo.

I do fear for your cognitive abilities, as clearly The Voice affects all of us - it's a change to our constitution and the way parliament and the federal government operate, it will give our indigenous people constitution recognition, and has the potential for policies that affect the environment, land use, climate change and our relationship to the land in a positive way.

Try again Bengal- if you have the solution to better help indigenous people and kids, what is it? I've heard nothing from you so far.

Do all indigenous people agree with the Voice,NO,and l doubt it will get in .
The Voice is causing division ,l know it wasnt intended to,but it is.
I think you will find that once people understand how it will effect them as it's written at the moment ,it will be a no vote that will be the end result.
I would be surprised if some of the wording isn't changed.

 

[Baloo]

So simply summed up.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1647396792026419200

 

[bengal tigers]

The Coalition's policy now is for a "Canberra Voice" too, just not in the constitution . You may not know this as they are careful not to mention it as it defeats their other arguments.



As far as I can see everyone acknowledges child abuse is a serious issue, but Dutton and co are clearly using the issue for politics. Dutton references children being returned to abuse, as you have, but is unable to back that claim up with any evidence. mistakes are certainly made, and i know from past experience the NT child protection system is a bit of a mess, but I am not sure how that is different to any other state's system.

Im quite sure we have gone over this before.

The indigenous population in Australia is quite small,but the substantiation rate of abuse in indigenous children is 43percent per 1000

Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander children in substantiations​

In 2020–21, 14,600 Indigenous children were the subject of a substantiation. This is a rate of 43 per 1,000
Indigenous children from the lowest socioeconomic areas were more likely to be the subjects of substantiations. Of the 13,900 Indigenous children who were the subjects of substantiations and could be mapped to a socioeconomic area, about 42% (5,900) were from the lowest socioeconomic area, compared to 3.9% (548) who were from the highest.

Anyway l have put links in previous posts ,lm quite sure it has nearly everything if people search around.
Somethings may be hidden by the Federal and State Governments,something about privacy policy

 

[Sintiger]

The NIAA is suppose to be doing a lot of this stuff already ,l think they have a sitting federal member on their board.
They have ground staff across all states and regions ,the ceo reports directly to Burney.
Didn't the NIAA come about after a Royal commission .

I think it has been answered

No one has ever said that there are not problems with child abuse, although no one seems to be able to quantify them.
The issue is the motivation of Dutton for raising it

 

[bengal tigers]

I think it has been answered

No one has ever said that there are not problems with child abuse, although no one seems to be able to quantify them.
The issue is the motivation of Dutton for raising it

Maybe this is why ,and it wasn't just Dutton,it was also Jacinta Price.

However, the latest Australian Institute of Health and Welfare (AIHW) data revealed just 31.9 per cent of child abuse and neglect claims in the NT in 2020-21 were substantiated.
The data also showed child abuse and neglect rates in the NT were five times the national average in that same period, with the majority of cases relating to neglect.

Almost 90 per cent of children in the NT who were the subjects of substantiated instances of abuse and neglect were Indigenous.

The same report showed if Victoria recorded identical rates of substantiated sexual abuse as the NT, Victoria's numbers would be triple what they were in 2020-21.

 

[Sintiger]

Maybe this is why ,and it wasn't just Dutton,it was also Jacinta Price.

However, the latest Australian Institute of Health and Welfare (AIHW) data revealed just 31.9 per cent of child abuse and neglect claims in the NT in 2020-21 were substantiated.
The data also showed child abuse and neglect rates in the NT were five times the national average in that same period, with the majority of cases relating to neglect.

Almost 90 per cent of children in the NT who were the subjects of substantiated instances of abuse and neglect were Indigenous.

The same report showed if Victoria recorded identical rates of substantiated sexual abuse as the NT, Victoria's numbers would be triple what they were in 2020-21.

The point that is being made is that this has nothing to do with the debate on the Voice.
Yes we should do something about this but in the debate about the Voice it is nothing but a deflection

 

[DavidSSS]

Simple question: how does giving first nation's people a guaranteed voice to parliament and government make domestic violence worse?

I would have thought giving Indigenous Australians agency would help, they have been ignored for so long the evidence suggests that denying them a voice has not been a good strategy. After all, the issues we are seeing now are issues which have arisen while Indigenous people have had no voice.

Any argument about how bad the situation is currently is an argument for change. The Voice is change, the Voice will hopefully give Indigenous Australians the agency to address problems.

I cannot see the logic of opposing change on the basis of how bad things are now.

I can see the political opportunism in that approach though.

DS

 

[AngryAnt]

The point that is being made is that this has nothing to do with the debate on the Voice.
Yes we should do something about this but in the debate about the Voice it is nothing but a deflection

Correct. Dutton, Price and the LNP never did anything about this for the 11 years they were in power and when Voice gets up (it will) you'll never hear from them again on the topic.

 

[AngryAnt]

Because lm not you

Dude, you've done nothing but throw insults my way this whole thread and you've still not been able to produce a single indigenous policy initiative the LNP did in their 11 years in power

Come up with one thing the LNP did in those 11 years - put up or shut up Benghazi.

Do all indigenous people agree with the Voice,NO,and l doubt it will get in .

80% do mate. You are denying the wishes of 80% of indigenous Australians, but as an old white man with a Eureka flag avatar you know what's better for them than they do right?

Indigenous support for Voice at 80pc despite protests by ‘noisy few’

New polling shows 80 per cent of Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Australians support a Voice enshrined in the constitution.

www.afr.com

 

[AngryAnt]

Simple question: how does giving first nation's people a guaranteed voice to parliament and government make domestic violence worse?

You won't get an answer to that from old mate Bengals I reckon.

 

[IanG]

You won't get an answer to that from old mate Bengals I reckon.

I'm over here having put him on ignore watching one side of the 'debates' and wondering when the hell is he going to give up, he clearly hasn't got a leg to stand on. I gather he is just repeating Dutton's talking points which have been comprehensively refuted.