Goodbye Mabior Chol

[tigerlove]

He has played previously with Noah @ Doutta Stars IIRC

Here's last I can find of Mate playing in 2014. Didn't really set the world on fire if goals and bests are anything to go by. He looks a little uncoordinated in his basketball highlights, obviously height is his big advantage. Honestly though I didn't think Soldo would come on as well as he has so anything can happen and he's the right pedigree. Worth the speculative risk.

 

[eddazol]

Its more likely he kicked 5 in 5 minutes, then didnt touch the ball for 15

note: this is not a criticism

Most Afl teams are struggling to score 5 goals in a game. The scratch match format could be the new way to increase scoring.

 

[Knighta]

Not really anecdotal. If you have Kayo go back and watch some of the games. He has bouts of high intensity and then goes missi g for long periods. At times he seems not to try. If he was doing the right things he wouldn't have been dropped. Big few weeks ahead for him. This is his chance.

That is anecdotal. I have seen Jack, Tom Lynch and recently vs Freo Dusty do the same. I just do not understand why everyone jumps on Mabior and says "Watch, he goes missing".

To combat this I produce stats and comparisons to other players.

I would love to see a breakdown of when he gets possessions.

 

[eZyT]

That is anecdotal. I have seen Jack, Tom Lynch and recently vs Freo Dusty do the same. I just do not understand why everyone jumps on Mabior and says "Watch, he goes missing"

Might be a strange version of

Gone walkabout theory?

I dunno.

He takes laconic to another level.

I think we misinterpret this as laziness?

 

[tigerlove]

That is anecdotal. I have seen Jack, Tom Lynch and recently vs Freo Dusty do the same. I just do not understand why everyone jumps on Mabior and says "Watch, he goes missing".

To combat this I produce stats and comparisons to other players.

I would love to see a breakdown of when he gets possessions.

No it's not anecdotal, it's fact. Go through the game day posts, watch the games again. Chol has often gone through halves without getting near it. Often. The difference with Jack and Tom is they are key forwards, they don't ruck. And they take the best backman. Dusty? Really? Nanks last game had more marks than Chol had in his last SEVEN. We're not dreaming it, Chol regularly goes missing. And he needs to address this first and foremost if he is to make it. Application full time. He's nearly 24yo. He needs to start producing and this is his opportunity. He's been given a life line. I'm sure most of us are hoping he can use this opportunity to take the next step because he has undoubted talent.

 

[tigerman]

Mabs is an exciting talent, just need to improve on some of his efforts at centre bounces.
I think his best position is going to be as a forward.

 

[zippadeee]

Its going to be a win/win.
He plays well he stays otherwise we just leave him with his family in Brisbane.
There's no 50-50's in this, either he digs deep for the next 4 games or can play for a club that will accept 10 minutes of highlights a fornight.

 

[daniel30]

We need him to win a few taps to you think with his attributes wouldn't be hard and size timing is everything.

 

[Knighta]

No it's not anecdotal, it's fact. Go through the game day posts, watch the games again. Chol has often gone through halves without getting near it. Often. The difference with Jack and Tom is they are key forwards, they don't ruck. And they take the best backman. Dusty? Really? Nanks last game had more marks than Chol had in his last SEVEN. We're not dreaming it, Chol regularly goes missing. And he needs to address this first and foremost if he is to make it. Application full time. He's nearly 24yo. He needs to start producing and this is his opportunity. He's been given a life line. I'm sure most of us are hoping he can use this opportunity to take the next step because he has undoubted talent.

Anecdotal evidence is evidence from anecdotes: evidence collected in a casual or informal manner and relying heavily or entirely on personal testimony. I hope the definition helps. Watching the games you see something different to me, and others have their own opinions, hence why I am saying the evidence you are presenting is anecdotal. I presented statistics to reinforce my observations that Chol is playing quite well compared to Nankervis who had one disposal and no marks in a game (playing as a ruck) and has gone missing in similar ways to Jack and Lynch who play forward. And I see these as fair comparisons as Chol is a RUCK/FORWARD.

Also that assertion that Nank had more marks in one game than Chol's last seven is categorically incorrect. Please do your research.

I agree he needs to play well, but I would anecdotally assert that from my opinion he has been playing well, and the statistics in my opinion back up my arguement.

On the other hand, it appears you have a one dimensional view of Chol which is not applied to other players playing similar roles for some weird reason.

I hardly think he has been given a lifeline. Nank got a lifeline after playing in the same position as Chol and having one touch.

 

[Knighta]

Might be a strange version of

Gone walkabout theory?

I dunno.

He takes laconic to another level.

I think we misinterpret this as laziness?

I agree he is laconic, but that doesn't mean he is not putting effort in. I recommend you listen to Richo on TT talk about Bowden. Said he was such a hard worker, but just looked too laconic and effortless when he was running a lot of fans incorrectly thought he was lazy.

If the argument being made is the second ruckman needs to start taking 5+ marks and having an impact around the ground, I would agree. However, neither Nank and Chol have fulfilled that criteria consistently.

 

[turk-d-tiger]

This next 4 games is Marbior Chol's future

He will either make it of be finished in 2 years at most

Im expecting him to play the best football of his career

 

[zippadeee]

This next 4 games is Marbior Chol's future

He will either make it of be finished in 2 years at most

Im expecting him to play the best football of his career

I would basically tell him, these 4 games will mark your future at this club. If you succeed you will be remembered like you want to be remembered. If your efforts are half hearted and you dont play the Richmond way, don't expect to be here next year.
I think he will play at his best, but is his best Soldo best, I'm not sure..

 

[Quickdraw]

I think he will play at his best, but is his best Soldo best, I'm not sure..

Totally different player.
Doesn't need to play like Soldo. Needs to play like Good Chol.

 

[tigerlove]

Anecdotal evidence is evidence from anecdotes: evidence collected in a casual or informal manner and relying heavily or entirely on personal testimony. I hope the definition helps. Watching the games you see something different to me, and others have their own opinions, hence why I am saying the evidence you are presenting is anecdotal. I presented statistics to reinforce my observations that Chol is playing quite well compared to Nankervis who had one disposal and no marks in a game (playing as a ruck) and has gone missing in similar ways to Jack and Lynch who play forward. And I see these as fair comparisons as Chol is a RUCK/FORWARD.

Also that assertion that Nank had more marks in one game than Chol's last seven is categorically incorrect. Please do your research.

I agree he needs to play well, but I would anecdotally assert that from my opinion he has been playing well, and the statistics in my opinion back up my arguement.

On the other hand, it appears you have a one dimensional view of Chol which is not applied to other players playing similar roles for some weird reason.

I hardly think he has been given a lifeline. Nank got a lifeline after playing in the same position as Chol and having one touch.

Nanks 6 marks last game. Chol 6 marks last 7 games. I think you get the point.

3 of last 4 games of Chol, 5 disposals in each. 3.3 effective. Yes that's less than 1 effective disposal in each and every quarter for 3 whole games. OK but he rucked well right. Well no he averaged just over 6 per game. Admittedly he played pretty well in 1 game in between but how much more 'anecdotal' evidence do you need that he goes missing? Comparing him to Nanks is ridiculous. Nanks has proven himself over and over and was coming back from injury. And you NEVER question his desire.

I just find your comparison of Chol with Lynch, Reiwoldt, Dusty and Nanks very strange. They are all proven premiership players who have played consistent footy for a long time. Chol has not and now through some luck for him been given the opportunity of his life. It's called a lifeline. 24yo, time to start proving himself. I hope he can because he has loads of talent. But many talented players have failed due to lack of application and many more will.

 

[Tony Braxton-Hicks]

I agree he is laconic, but that doesn't mean he is not putting effort in. I recommend you listen to Richo on TT talk about Bowden. Said he was such a hard worker, but just looked too laconic and effortless when he was running a lot of fans incorrectly thought he was lazy.

Anecdote.

I've watched a lot of VFL at the ground, and my pet peeve with Chol is that he's regularly third and fourth up in a marking contest, and doesn't impact the contest.

Fact: he did extra training over summer to overcome fitness issues, which would also explain why he's been last to reach the marking contest pre-2020.

Fact: he's averaging 6.2 disposals per game and 6.1 hitouts, both of which are considered below average. The 2020 averages are in line with his career averages when you allow for fewer minutes in games.

I haven't been able to see him live this year but the facts above suggest no statistical improvement in 9 games played despite the fitness gains over summer.

I hope he turns it on. He seems to be best when fresh, and he will hopefully only need to play 4 games with two weeks off in that time (if we win the first final).

 

[angle ankle]

Pretty sure nank will be teaching him at centre bounces to reduce his angle of attack on the opposition ruck....not so front on.
I reckon he's apprehensive about a knee to the whatever.
A more side on, less confrontational...even run with approach similar to what nank did to nicnat could do wonders for his confidence, leap & attack on the ball.
His potential for second efforts on ground ball contests is huge.

 

[Tigeronprowl]

I hope Chol proves me wrong as he has shown he has all the tools to be a very good footballer if he can consistently put it together, but i think it would be a huge risk to play him in a final, especially grand final if we make it. When he has a bad game he effectively goes missing and we are one man down as he doesn't even compete or apply pressure to opposition in a contest. I hope that if he is picked to play that he consistently attacks the contest to bring the ball to ground for our smalls. Anymore than that would be a bonus. Just can't afford him being invisible for an entire game.

 

[Knighta]

Nanks 6 marks last game. Chol 6 marks last 7 games. I think you get the point.

3 of last 4 games of Chol, 5 disposals in each. 3.3 effective. Yes that's less than 1 effective disposal in each and every quarter for 3 whole games. OK but he rucked well right. Well no he averaged just over 6 per game. Admittedly he played pretty well in 1 game in between but how much more 'anecdotal' evidence do you need that he goes missing? Comparing him to Nanks is ridiculous. Nanks has proven himself over and over and was coming back from injury. And you NEVER question his desire.

I just find your comparison of Chol with Lynch, Reiwoldt, Dusty and Nanks very strange. They are all proven premiership players who have played consistent footy for a long time. Chol has not and now through some luck for him been given the opportunity of his life. It's called a lifeline. 24yo, time to start proving himself. I hope he can because he has loads of talent. But many talented players have failed due to lack of application and many more will.

Hey took 6 marks in the last 5 games and 10 in his last seven. Get your stats right mate. Don't go missing with doing your research. It's just lazy.

Chol has played reasonably well for a 23/24 year old third forward second ruck. He can also improve. And has areas he can improve. But it is not as simple as he goes missing. He does not have the best position to get big numbers. I compared him to others to demonstrate even premiership stars can go missing in a game.

Your argument is he doesn't apply himself, which I think is wrong. He gets to contests. He worked on his fitness. Kicking at goal this year looks better

 

[Knighta]

Anecdote.

I've watched a lot of VFL at the ground, and my pet peeve with Chol is that he's regularly third and fourth up in a marking contest, and doesn't impact the contest.

Fact: he did extra training over summer to overcome fitness issues, which would also explain why he's been last to reach the marking contest pre-2020.

Fact: he's averaging 6.2 disposals per game and 6.1 hitouts, both of which are considered below average. The 2020 averages are in line with his career averages when you allow for fewer minutes in games.

I haven't been able to see him live this year but the facts above suggest no statistical improvement in 9 games played despite the fitness gains over summer.

I hope he turns it on. He seems to be best when fresh, and he will hopefully only need to play 4 games with two weeks off in that time (if we win the first final).

Some good points there. You must of been happy with the scratch match highlights where he took a lot of contested marks?

Just a question about the stats, not arguing as that is what they say. Are those stats AFL wide or positional? I have always wondered.

He looks good after a break. So I also hope he gets going.

 

[tigerlove]

Hey took 6 marks in the last 5 games and 10 in his last seven. Get your stats right mate. Don't go missing with doing your research. It's just lazy.

Chol has played reasonably well for a 23/24 year old third forward second ruck. He can also improve. And has areas he can improve. But it is not as simple as he goes missing. He does not have the best position to get big numbers. I compared him to others to demonstrate even premiership stars can go missing in a game.

Your argument is he doesn't apply himself, which I think is wrong. He gets to contests. He worked on his fitness. Kicking at goal this year looks better

Are you just playing dumb? Or any opportunity to call me lazy without any real counter argument? I don't really get what you're getting at, the premise of the reasoning doesn't change. My main drift was proving that Chol goes missing in games, it took 6, 7 games whatever the exact number is to take as many marks as Nanks did in his last game, it was just an observation The point is we know Chol goes missing, it is not anecdotal it's all there in the stats. Just over 5 disposals a game over his last 6 games, halves without touching the ball. I've seen a few of his games in VFL in previous seasons and it's always been an issue for him. I'm not arguing that he hasn't worked hard or not working on improving his fitness but I am arguing that he doesn't always apply himself to his best abilities. Not an uncommon trait, many potentially good payers have had lack of application or get down on themselves. Reiwoldt, Lynch, Dusty, Nanks don't have this issue that's why Chol is singled out for this and not those players as you bemoaned. As I said I think he is very skilled, he has great decision making and has a beautiful kick. We're all on the same page we want Chol to take his opportunity with both hands. 24 years old at the start of next season, he won't be getting too many more chances if he can't get his consistency up. I am very keen to see how he goes this weekend on the back of his solid scratch match performance.