Global Warming

[poppa x]

I saw a rather horrid History channel show last week about what they called The Global Warning Conspiracy. The show was painful to watch but they did make one interesting claim.
They investigated and discovered that there is a company in the USA who stands to pocket Billions from their involvement (software) in helping big business to trade their emissions and be able to claim they are carbon neutral. This company is the Number One Emissions Consultancy in the USA.
Wanna guess who's on the Board?

Al Gore.

 

[AngryAnt]

Is the debate over?


Bill Gray, a professor emeritus at Colorado State, has been a member of the American Meteorological Society for more than 50 years. In a lengthy post at Watts Up With That, he expresses his dismay at the manner in which AMS has sold out science in the interest of politics:

Oh yeah, Bill Gray from the Heartland Institute, a "libertarian thinktank" that used to earn its money working with Phillip Morris to claim that secondhand cigarette smoke is not harmful. Now they get their dollars from energy companies too lazy to change their business models. A big chunk of their funding came from ExxonMobil, remember them? And the AGW denialists have the gall to claim that climate change science is all about the gravy chain.

As for the text of what he writes - he quibbles over sea levels and atmospheric feedback mechanisms, but he can't challenge the empirical data. It's the old denialist outcry of "your models are wrong". No, we are talking actual empirical measurements of real changes that have already happened, not modelling.

 

[tigersnake]

What the hell would he know...?

I bet he's one of those 'dumb' scientists.

Well he is an emeritus which generally means well past his or her prime, Would you put Royce Hart at CHF for the 2011 GF? but thats a side issue. You'll always be able to dig up a scientist that disagrees with any prevailing scientific view in any given area, but the science is prevailing for a reason.

Again the last section gives him away re : those pesky lefty governments ginving great dollops of research dough to those pesky lefty scientists. It is so ludicrous on so many levels. I've already outlined them, but in summary, status quo has far more power than a bunch of boffins, why would anyone, individual, government, anyone, want to promote CG or GW? Everyone wishes we could consume cheap stuff to our hearts content with no impacts on anything. I do. But unfortunately it doesn't work like that.

80 years of hard data and 40 years of peer reviewed science.

 

[tigersnake]

I saw a rather horrid History channel show last week about what they called The Global Warning Conspiracy. The show was painful to watch but they did make one interesting claim.
They investigated and discovered that there is a company in the USA who stands to pocket Billions from their involvement (software) in helping big business to trade their emissions and be able to claim they are carbon neutral. This company is the Number One Emissions Consultancy in the USA.
Wanna guess who's on the Board?

Al Gore.

But whats wrong with that? All he is doing is promoting a vision for the future and putting his money where his mouth is. Business people do it all the time, some get it wrong, some right. Its not like hes destabilisng a government to sell arms like *smile* Chaney. Its textbook capitalism in action. Nothing sinister about it at all. Its exactly the same as if I think a carbon price will happen and I buy shares in geothermal or solar. A lot of people will make a buck out of a price on carbon, like a lot of people make a buck out of any major economic reform.

 

[poppa x]

The problem with Gore is the people may think he's an honest politician telling us the truth about climate change. And to be fair, he may be.
But dig deeper, and he's got his hand in the trough just like everyone else.
I think it ruins his credibility.

 

[Big Cat Lover]

But whats wrong with that? All he is doing is promoting a vision for the future and putting his money where his mouth is. Business people do it all the time, some get it wrong, some right. Its not like hes destabilisng a government to sell arms like *smile* Chaney. Its textbook capitalism in action. Nothing sinister about it at all. Its exactly the same as if I think a carbon price will happen and I buy shares in geothermal or solar. A lot of people will make a buck out of a price on carbon, like a lot of people make a buck out of any major economic reform.

You're taking the p*ss with that post right?

Nothing sinister because it's Al Gore by any chance?

 

[Giardiasis]

You're taking the p*ss with that post right?

Nothing sinister because it's Al Gore by any chance?

There seems to be a common trend.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2011/06/22/nasa-scientist-accused-using-celeb-status-among-environmental-groups-to-enrich/#ixzz1Q3EfLDOI

 

[Brodders17]

There seems to be a common trend.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2011/06/22/nasa-scientist-accused-using-celeb-status-among-environmental-groups-to-enrich/#ixzz1Q3EfLDOI

good pick up. definitely a trend there. right-wing media quoting organisations with links to oil companies trying to decredit scientists who use science to show man has an effect on the climate.

 

[tigersnake]

You're taking the p*ss with that post right?

Nothing sinister because it's Al Gore by any chance?

Why would I be taking the *smile*? Read the post again. I reckon this is related to a theme of the denialist conspiracy obsessions. There seems to be this underlying beleif that capitalist society will somehow stop with a carbon price. The old 'we'll all be living in caves eating lentils' chestnut. All this is is an economic reform. If anything it will make the market more pure by removing a major failure, being zero price on pollution..

Al gore is a proven effective political operator, he actually won the primary vote in a presidential election. He knows the rules of the game in the US as well as anyone. Just like *smile* Chaney he picks which way he thinks the wind will blow and hitches his wagon to it. Name any cause, reform, innovation, good or bad, profit or not-for-profit, harmful or beneficial, people are lobbying and promoting it and getting paid.

Like I said, its exactly the same as me getting into a conversation down the pub, or on PRE, saying 'a carbon tax should and will happen' while holding shares in solar energy companies. It is like Henry Ford saying 'the car is the future' in the 1900s. You might think that is sinister, I just think its putting your money where your mouth is.

Capitalism will continue and strengthen under a carbon tax.

 

[Merveille]

Why would I be taking the p!ss? Read the post again. I reckon this is related to a theme of the denialist conspiracy obsessions. There seems to be this underlying beleif that capitalist society will somehow stop with a carbon price. The old 'we'll all be living in caves eating lentils' chestnut. All this is is an economic reform. If anything it will make the market more pure by removing a major failure, being zero price on pollution..

Al gore is a proven effective political operator, he actually won the primary vote in a presidential election. He knows the rules of the game in the US as well as anyone. Just like *smile* Chaney he picks which way he thinks the wind will blow and hitches his wagon to it. Name any cause, reform, innovation, good or bad, profit or not-for-profit, harmful or beneficial, people are lobbying and promoting it and getting paid.

Like I said, its exactly the same as me getting into a conversation down the pub, or on PRE, saying 'a carbon tax should and will happen' while holding shares in solar energy companies. It is like Henry Ford saying 'the car is the future' in the 1900s. You might think that is sinister, I just think its putting your money where your mouth is.

Capitalism will continue and strengthen under a carbon tax.

You forgot this bit - 'Al Gore is a big, fat hypocrite.'

 

[Sintiger]

You forgot this bit - 'Al Gore is a big, fat hypocrite.'

I am not necessarily an Al Gore apologist but why is he a hypocrite , because he is going to make money from this growing industry ?

Sounds smart to me .

 

[tigersnake]

You forgot this bit - 'Al Gore is a big, fat hypocrite.'

He is overweight, I'll give you that.

Seriously though, what kind of a reply is that? I outline why Gore is not doing anything wrong or untoward in a rational logical post, and its like I never posted, did you read it?. Fair dinkum, its like arguing with a little kid (maybe you are??) and the kid saying 'I know you are'. Lift Merv, lift.


Again, therein lies the heart of the denialists stance. Its not about the science. Its just about not liking the idea that our activities have been messing things up. The truth hurting or shooting the messenger, its a phenomenon as old as adam, but it gets you nowhere.

 

[Merveille]

I am not necessarily an Al Gore apologist but why is he a hypocrite , because he is going to make money from this growing industry ?

Sounds smart to me .

http://www.snopes.com/politics/bush/house.asp

just one example, add his personal jet and flying footprint, makes his total footprint massive, like his tum tum

 

[Merveille]

He is overweight, I'll give you that.

Seriously though, what kind of a reply is that? I outline why Gore is not doing anything wrong or untoward in a rational logical post, and its like I never posted, did you read it?. Fair dinkum, its like arguing with a little kid (maybe you are??) and the kid saying 'I know you are'. Lift Merv, lift.


Again, therein lies the heart of the denialists stance. Its not about the science. Its just about not liking the idea that our activities have been messing things up. The truth hurting or shooting the messenger, its a phenomenon as old as adam, but it gets you nowhere.

Its just about not liking the idea that our activities have been messing things up.

Let Al start fixing his own ay, then I'll start. HYPOCRITE is all I said. Maybe he needs to lift?

 

[tigersnake]

I beleive CG to be real but I still drive a car, use a heap of energy in general. I'm a hypocrite by that measure. I'd argue the benefits of Al swooping around in his jet promoting a carbon price far outwiegh the footprint. I beleive its big picture stuff, no individuals consumption will make much difference untile structural changes are made, ie, a carbon price. it is a legit point though.

 

[Merveille]

I beleive CG to be real but I still drive a car, use a heap of energy in general. I'm a hypocrite by that measure. I'd argue the benefits of Al swooping around in his jet promoting a carbon price far outwiegh the footprint. I beleive its big picture stuff, no individuals consumption will make much difference untile structural changes are made, ie, a carbon price. it is a legit point though.

Not sure you read the link? One of his 3 homes uses 12 times the energy of the average American home. 8 bathrooms..

So he uses in a month what others use in a year

 

[AngryAnt]

Let Al start fixing his own ay, then I'll start. HYPOCRITE is all I said. Maybe he needs to lift?

Why do you have to wait for a hypocrite to change his behaviour before you change yours? Seems a strange way to live. Take a leaf out of George Bush's example instead.

 

[Merveille]

Why do you have to wait for a hypocrite to change his behaviour before you change yours? Seems a strange way to live. Take a leaf out of George Bush's example instead.

Well at leat you have at least acknowledged he is a hypocrite, whilst having a dig at me along the way, naturally.

 

[Freezer]

"Workers earning more than $150,000 a year, ... , will largely bear the cost of the carbon tax without taxpayer-funded relief."

HeraldSun

Lots of incentive there for well paid workers to reduce their footprint.

 

[Tiger74]

"Workers earning more than $150,000 a year, ... , will largely bear the cost of the carbon tax without taxpayer-funded relief."

HeraldSun

Lots of incentive there for well paid workers to reduce their footprint.

Um actually there is. By getting less compensation they will actually have a greater financial incentive to reduce the amount of energy they consume by investing in more energy efficient purchasing decision. They are also the ones most equipped to afford it initially.