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David Hicks [Split from Saddam thread]
- Thread starter Liverpool
- Start date
Just remember this:
http://forevergeek.com/articles/38_ways_to_win_an_argument.php
...in particular rule-38:
Become personal, insulting and rude as soon as you perceive that your opponent has the upper hand.
In becoming personal you leave the subject altogether, and turn your attack on the person by remarks of an offensive and spiteful character.
This is a very popular technique, because it takes so little skill to put it into effect. (this is what trolls like to do)
Spot on Tygrys! :clap
It's quite ironic all this.
Here we have the 'supporters' of David Hicks (or should I say, the "Anti-Howard Lobby" :
complaining about the human rights abuses that Hicks had endured, with many of them saying that by letting the Yanks treat an Australian citizen like this, is against everything this nation stands for, and that we are now being just as abusive as the terrorists themselves.
If this was true, he would not be alive...he would have been beheaded, live on the internet for everyone to witness, 5 years ago.
It is because we are NOT like the terrorists that he was captured, is still alive after 5 years, been fed and had shelter, and by all reports, seems to be in good health considering the "5 relentless years of torture" he has had to endure. :
Maybe if the Americans had been more like the terrorists when they captured him, then we wouldn't be debating Hicks human rights on this thread.
http://forevergeek.com/articles/38_ways_to_win_an_argument.php
...in particular rule-38:
Become personal, insulting and rude as soon as you perceive that your opponent has the upper hand.
In becoming personal you leave the subject altogether, and turn your attack on the person by remarks of an offensive and spiteful character.
This is a very popular technique, because it takes so little skill to put it into effect. (this is what trolls like to do)
Tygrys said:
Spot on Tygrys! :clap
It's quite ironic all this.
Here we have the 'supporters' of David Hicks (or should I say, the "Anti-Howard Lobby" :
complaining about the human rights abuses that Hicks had endured, with many of them saying that by letting the Yanks treat an Australian citizen like this, is against everything this nation stands for, and that we are now being just as abusive as the terrorists themselves.If this was true, he would not be alive...he would have been beheaded, live on the internet for everyone to witness, 5 years ago.
It is because we are NOT like the terrorists that he was captured, is still alive after 5 years, been fed and had shelter, and by all reports, seems to be in good health considering the "5 relentless years of torture" he has had to endure. :
Maybe if the Americans had been more like the terrorists when they captured him, then we wouldn't be debating Hicks human rights on this thread.
Is "at least the US aren't as bad as terrorists" the best defense they've got?
Whether or not what the US did was better or worse than what Al Queda would have done, they still did the wrong thing!
He didn't commit a crime, and should not have been jailed without a trial. Simple.
I'm not defending David Hicks' philosophies, and I don't share them, but the simple fact is he did not commit a crime.
Whether or not what the US did was better or worse than what Al Queda would have done, they still did the wrong thing!
He didn't commit a crime, and should not have been jailed without a trial. Simple.
I'm not defending David Hicks' philosophies, and I don't share them, but the simple fact is he did not commit a crime.
David Hicks convicted Terrorist and future Australian Democrats Candidate?
On a more humourous note about David Hicks, I read today that Sandra Kanck leader of the Australian Democrats in South Australia stated that she would be happy for Hicks to seek a political career as an Australian Democrat. To quote Ms Kanck, "I certainly wouldn't rule him out" and that "The national executive would consider any protest (against Hicks) but I'd be surprised if any such protest occurred". I assume this means that if he does run as a candidate that the party will officially adopt Sharia law as practiced under the Taliban and in Saudi Arabia as part of their platform (presumably Ms Kanck is shopping around for a berka as I write this). Hicks made no secret of his love of that form of governance having converted to Islam and beared arms for its preservation and extension.
One could be charitable and say this is the last murmurings and gasps of what is effectively a political corpse. But still it boggles the mind what a low benchmark the Democrats apply for their prospective candidates. I guess it means that if Osama Bin Laden or Abu Bakar Bashir were Australian citizens they'd be eligible too in Ms Kancks eyes. In what are no doubt the desperate last months of the Australian Democrats federal parliamentary existence, it's still mind boggling to say the least. Personally I don't think they are even sure in what they believe in anymore.
On a more humourous note about David Hicks, I read today that Sandra Kanck leader of the Australian Democrats in South Australia stated that she would be happy for Hicks to seek a political career as an Australian Democrat. To quote Ms Kanck, "I certainly wouldn't rule him out" and that "The national executive would consider any protest (against Hicks) but I'd be surprised if any such protest occurred". I assume this means that if he does run as a candidate that the party will officially adopt Sharia law as practiced under the Taliban and in Saudi Arabia as part of their platform (presumably Ms Kanck is shopping around for a berka as I write this). Hicks made no secret of his love of that form of governance having converted to Islam and beared arms for its preservation and extension.
One could be charitable and say this is the last murmurings and gasps of what is effectively a political corpse. But still it boggles the mind what a low benchmark the Democrats apply for their prospective candidates. I guess it means that if Osama Bin Laden or Abu Bakar Bashir were Australian citizens they'd be eligible too in Ms Kancks eyes. In what are no doubt the desperate last months of the Australian Democrats federal parliamentary existence, it's still mind boggling to say the least. Personally I don't think they are even sure in what they believe in anymore.
Anduril said:
Absolutely, after all we are obviously comparing apples with apples, because we all know that Iranian and Islamic justice and society is every bit as fair and as open as we have in the west. That's why at least as many western Christians, homosexuals, women etc from the United States, Australia and Europe are seeking refugee status in Iran as vice versa. It goes without question that an admission when in custody of the revolutionary guard should be believed in (it would be politically incorrect to believe anything else).
Tygrys said:
We don't get any decent news here in Australia.
If David didn't financially support, or take part in any terrorist activities, then how is what he did a crime?
Andy, it was actually Iranian waters, if they had been in Iraqi waters (and according to them they were) there would have been no issue in the first place.Anduril said:
Amnesty International are trying to get Guantanamo Bay closed.
You can help at:
www.amnesty.org.au
You can help at:
www.amnesty.org.au
Hey Pesto! said:
And for the others out there....what you can do, to keep it open:
http://julescrittenden.blogspot.com/2007/01/top-10-things-you-can-do-to-keep.html
....and don't forget your Guantanamo Bay gear:
http://www.cafepress.com/iheartgitmo
8)
Good idea, Livers. That'll keep those Mid-East types off our slopes in Winter!
Cyanide & Happiness @ Explosm.net
Cyanide & Happiness @ Explosm.net
I watched the news last evening and saw a man clad in orange coloured overalls being escorted from a plane into an aircraft hanger somewhere in South Australia.
The news reporter said this is the end of an 8 year odyssey for David Hicks.
Right at that moment my thoughts of David Hicks – “You stupid *smile*. Your foolish actions, your penchant for army life has led not only you but the rest of the Australian people on a sad and misguided dance.”
My wife said what do you reckon? – I replied – “I have a distinct disdain for the man – his selfish intentions to sate his own lust for army life on either side of the divide (remember he applied for the Australian Army and was rejected – so he went overseas to join a militia, any militia). But on the same token I feel his true story has dragged the value of Australian Citizenship down because he was not helped by our elected government for over 5 years. What the government finally did – and aren’t they crowing about it – should have been done in the first 12 months of his capture.”
The whole saga is a mess from start to finish.
Hicks has been incredibly foolish – The Howard Government has mismanaged the values of an Australian Citizenship - And the nation remains divided on the whole issue because some can’t see past the accusations of what Hicks has meant to have done – whilst others could only see the way an Australian Citizen was treated with no Australian Government intervention. The later constantly reminding us that as an Australian you are innocent until proven otherwise.
Then for whatever purpose (political or not) he is given a plea bargain – and of course he took it – just to get out of the bloody gaol and the way he was being (mis)treated for 60 months. Part of the plea bargain is that he cannot tell his side of the story until after March next year. (Coincidentally that is well after our next Federal Election – pardon my cynicism).
To me this David Hicks case is like the infamous Lindy Chamberlain baby and the dingo case at Ayres Rock years ago - I fear the truth will never be known
Whatever - It is a sad chapter in our history……..
The news reporter said this is the end of an 8 year odyssey for David Hicks.
Right at that moment my thoughts of David Hicks – “You stupid *smile*. Your foolish actions, your penchant for army life has led not only you but the rest of the Australian people on a sad and misguided dance.”
My wife said what do you reckon? – I replied – “I have a distinct disdain for the man – his selfish intentions to sate his own lust for army life on either side of the divide (remember he applied for the Australian Army and was rejected – so he went overseas to join a militia, any militia). But on the same token I feel his true story has dragged the value of Australian Citizenship down because he was not helped by our elected government for over 5 years. What the government finally did – and aren’t they crowing about it – should have been done in the first 12 months of his capture.”
The whole saga is a mess from start to finish.
Hicks has been incredibly foolish – The Howard Government has mismanaged the values of an Australian Citizenship - And the nation remains divided on the whole issue because some can’t see past the accusations of what Hicks has meant to have done – whilst others could only see the way an Australian Citizen was treated with no Australian Government intervention. The later constantly reminding us that as an Australian you are innocent until proven otherwise.
Then for whatever purpose (political or not) he is given a plea bargain – and of course he took it – just to get out of the bloody gaol and the way he was being (mis)treated for 60 months. Part of the plea bargain is that he cannot tell his side of the story until after March next year. (Coincidentally that is well after our next Federal Election – pardon my cynicism).
To me this David Hicks case is like the infamous Lindy Chamberlain baby and the dingo case at Ayres Rock years ago - I fear the truth will never be known
Whatever - It is a sad chapter in our history……..
RemoteTiger,
I agree with you....I also think the Australian Citizenship has been devalued......by David Hicks, first and foremost.
Its very easy for Terry Hicks to come on TV, pointing the finger at the Government....however, he is just another example of someone blaming everyone else for the predicament his son was in, a position David put himself in.
A shame Terry Hicks doesn't come on TV and publicly vilify his son, for his anti-Australian actions, by fighting and colluding with forces AGAINST Australian Citizens serving in our armed forces.
To me, this is the greatest crime against Australian citizenship....to actively fight against your own people in war.
This seems to be forgotten by the "Save Poor Hicksy" campaigners.
Finally, the biggest mistake the Government here made, was bringing him home.
He should have been treated like every other Australian citizen who commits a crime overseas, and that is, they get tried and sentenced overseas.
Schapelle Corby, the Bali-9, Barlow & Chambers, Nguyen Tuong Van....and even today:
http://www.theage.com.au/news/world/australian-considers-murder-appeal/2007/05/22/1179601364546.html
Why shouldn't Hicks be tried and sentenced in Afghanistan?
Why should he be treated differently, and more favourably, than other Australian citizens who have committed crimes overseas, by serving his sentence here, in what his lawyer has claimed:
David McLeod says the South Australian prison system will be more favourable to his client than Guantanamo Bay in Cuba.
"He's moving from a prison facility operated and run by interrogators to a prison facility operated and run by Correctional Services staff," he said.
"The focus in the former is in respect of interrogation and the focus of the latter is rehabilitation, so I think he'll find it's like moving from a campsite into the Hilton."
http://www.abc.net.au/news/newsitems/200705/s1928983.htm
The Hilton, eh?
Gee, I am sure the many other Australians overseas in rat-infested cells, are wishing their Australian citizenship was as "devalued" as David Hicks' has been by the Australian Government.
Terry Hicks and David Hicks should be on their hands and knees thanking the Australian Government.
I agree with you....I also think the Australian Citizenship has been devalued......by David Hicks, first and foremost.
Its very easy for Terry Hicks to come on TV, pointing the finger at the Government....however, he is just another example of someone blaming everyone else for the predicament his son was in, a position David put himself in.
A shame Terry Hicks doesn't come on TV and publicly vilify his son, for his anti-Australian actions, by fighting and colluding with forces AGAINST Australian Citizens serving in our armed forces.
To me, this is the greatest crime against Australian citizenship....to actively fight against your own people in war.
This seems to be forgotten by the "Save Poor Hicksy" campaigners.
Finally, the biggest mistake the Government here made, was bringing him home.
He should have been treated like every other Australian citizen who commits a crime overseas, and that is, they get tried and sentenced overseas.
Schapelle Corby, the Bali-9, Barlow & Chambers, Nguyen Tuong Van....and even today:
http://www.theage.com.au/news/world/australian-considers-murder-appeal/2007/05/22/1179601364546.html
Why shouldn't Hicks be tried and sentenced in Afghanistan?
Why should he be treated differently, and more favourably, than other Australian citizens who have committed crimes overseas, by serving his sentence here, in what his lawyer has claimed:
David McLeod says the South Australian prison system will be more favourable to his client than Guantanamo Bay in Cuba.
"He's moving from a prison facility operated and run by interrogators to a prison facility operated and run by Correctional Services staff," he said.
"The focus in the former is in respect of interrogation and the focus of the latter is rehabilitation, so I think he'll find it's like moving from a campsite into the Hilton."
http://www.abc.net.au/news/newsitems/200705/s1928983.htm
The Hilton, eh?
Gee, I am sure the many other Australians overseas in rat-infested cells, are wishing their Australian citizenship was as "devalued" as David Hicks' has been by the Australian Government.
Terry Hicks and David Hicks should be on their hands and knees thanking the Australian Government.
Liverpool said:
I don't think he meant that it would the Hilton. Liverpool. I think the point he was making was that the conditions in G-Bay are so deplorable that it will 'seem' like the Hilton.
And the reason he didn't get tried in Afghanistan was because the US took him to their home soil. That's hardly Hicks' fault.
