Damien Hardwick

[King Kong]

I have posted on this before.

The idea that we need a fresh look coaching wise is IMO too premature. We are in a transition period regarding the list. But I do believe that there is a lot of promising young players on our list.

People (on here and many footy ‘experts’) calling for change seem to believe that we went all in this year with an ageing list to try and pinch another flag. Exhibit A apparently trading away amongst other things a first round pick for Taranto and Hopper.

The fact that our poor start to the season seems to have ruled us out of a flag chase is seen as a failure. But there are some big assumptions in this position, not the least being that that is what the club thought.

I take a different view. Firstly, I think we are right in the hunt for a finals spot this year. We are a team, even now, that no one really wants to play in a final.

Secondly, while I think the club did try to give itself the best chance of a flag that it could this year, it also has a longer term view that was actually the priority. The recruitment of Taranto and Hopper was about providing a solid midfield platform for moving forward in the next few years with a promising list of young players. Yes we will have some holes to cover and it cost us a first round pick, but the bedrock framework is still there.

Quite frankly, Dimma is in the best couple of coaches in the league at the moment. Coaches with his experience, ability and success rate are rarely available at any time, let alone at the moment. He has a proven track record, at our club for goodness sake, of building a formidably successful team.

I think he remains the best coach for us. If he wants out, then OK, but if he wants to stay, we need to facilitate that. Reinvigoration can come in many forms. If we need it, then go for it but I don’t see that issue being properly addressed by replacing Dimma.

I get your thinking but look at Clarko. His was the best coach in the league for 10 years and eventually the club politics, his own personality and some poor list management decisions lead to the club's complete demise. They are now a rabble after 7 or 8 years of middle of the road finishes. That is absolutely the same path we are on.

Dimma has off-field interests now, off-field issues and seems to lack the same focus and desire he had early on and the motivational methods ain't working now. Our confidence, skills, fitness and injuries are below the comp standard.

The best outcome for both Clarko and the Hawks has been to part ways and in hindsight it should have happened 3 years earlier than it did.

I'm of the firm belief you don't rebuild with a multiple premiership coach. It never works. Sheedy, Roo's, Malthouse and Clarko destroyed clubs with their continual desire to top up to stay competitive. After getting to the top of the mountain - ego and impatience gets in the way of starting again.

We need to reset if we fail again this year (which looks inevitable) and I would like to see a team of Leppa, Grigga and Chris Newman return to start that process from next year.

 

[TigerForce]

If the new up and comers embrace Dimma from this year and next year and we see the line going up, then it's best for Dimma to do a Bill Belichick and extend for another 5 years. Because Fly has gone, I can't see any other reasonable coach taking us on. Just get better assistants.

 

[Dont Argue]

Hardwick never coached a senior AFL side before us.

No retreads for mine.

Richmond was rabble when they gave Hardwick the job.
Previously experienced quality coaches wanted nothing to do with us.
We rolled the dice, albeit after a very thorough interview process. We were always due some luck.
As for retreads, Clarkson, Lyon and Scott aren’t faring too badly with young, developing lists.
Saying that, I’m in balls deep with Dimma.

 

[Dont Argue]

I get your thinking but look at Clarko. His was the best coach in the league for 10 years and eventually the club politics, his own personality and some poor list management decisions lead to the club's complete demise. They are now a rabble after 7 or 8 years of middle of the road finishes. That is absolutely the same path we are on.

Dimma has off-field interests now, off-field issues and seems to lack the same focus and desire he had early on and the motivational methods ain't working now. Our confidence, skills, fitness and injuries are below the comp standard.

The best outcome for both Clarko and the Hawks has been to part ways and in hindsight it should have happened 3 years earlier than it did.

I'm of the firm belief you don't rebuild with a multiple premiership coach. It never works. Sheedy, Roo's, Malthouse and Clarko destroyed clubs with their continual desire to top up to stay competitive. After getting to the top of the mountain - ego and impatience gets in the way of starting again.

We need to reset if we fail again this year (which looks inevitable) and I would like to see a team of Leppa, Grigga and Chris Newman return to start that process from next year.

Add Jack Riewoldt to the coaching panel

 

[T-Shirt Tommy]

We're only 2 and a half years from when Dimma just won a 3rd flag in four years, and people want him gone.

2 and a half years.

People are acting as if we still have a peak Cotch, Jack, Dusty, Lambert et al available. The side is in transition, and people still want flags. It doesn't work that way. The system just doesn't allow it.

Dimmas message won't get stale as he is now coaching a new wave with the likes of Clarke, Gibcus, Ryan etc. Even Lynch has only had him for just over 4 years. Mind you the message didn't get stale for our then 2 time premiership heroes at the time early in 2020 and Hardwick had them since 2010.

This situation sounds eerily familiar to when Hafey got given the flick - a very successful coach who had a period when we didn't win flags and then sacked him, where he went on to coach successfully (albeit without winning a premiership).

I can see Hardwick making a seriously good fist of it at say a Port Adelaide who let's face it, if they even get a whiff of Dimma being on shaky ground will dump Hinkley without a second thought and offer Dimma the world.

As the cliche says, you don't know a good thing till it's gone.

 

[tigerman]

Some sinister media stuff going on atm.

The media stepping things up after Dimma said in the post game presser that the media aren't much good.

 

[TigerForce]

The media stepping things up after Dimma said in the post game presser that the media aren't much good.

Especially employing 5 year olds like Cornhead who just needs to throw a tantrum when he doesn't like something.

 

[Carter]

One thing we all forget sometimes is that Dimma loves educating. I personally think it’s his 1 wood over tactics and even motivational skills.

If a transition is on the cards, he is the perfect man to oversee it.

Provided he is as hungry as ever and his message is still fresh, I am chips in on Damien Hardwick

 

[Brodders17]

I get your thinking but look at Clarko. His was the best coach in the league for 10 years and eventually the club politics, his own personality and some poor list management decisions lead to the club's complete demise. They are now a rabble after 7 or 8 years of middle of the road finishes. That is absolutely the same path we are on.

Hawthorn are in the *smile* now because between 2009 and 2019 (or thereabouts they had about 2 1st rd picks and maybe 5 2nd rd picks. The ignored the draft once they got good, continued to ignore the draft when they were good, and once there decline hit they still ignored the draft for another year or 2.
is that what we have done?

 

[TigerForce]

One thing we all forget sometimes is that Dimma loves educating. I personally think it’s his 1 wood over tactics and even motivational skills.

If a transition is on the cards, he is the perfect man to oversee it.

Provided he is as hungry as ever and his message is still fresh, I am chips in on Damien Hardwick

Going by his recent attitude shown in the media, he is starving!

 

[tigersnake]

Dimma all the way.

He's shown he can change and adapt and win flags. He's also shown he can dig us out of holes. Personally I reckon he's smarter and more flexible than the old chestnut examples put forward, especially Clarko. I actually reckon the fact we have not done what Clarko did puts that to bed.

I'm happy to back him to oversee the next phase for 2 main reasons. 1 credit in the bank. Its a thing. GR is dead. Dimma has shown he can build a list, develop a game plan and deliver flags. 2. The odds of Dimma redeveloping the list successfully are much better than an untried coach. There's no guarantees of course, there never is.

I'd love to see success rates of untried coaches over the last say 20 years, 11 or 12 premiership coaches over that time?, while most clubs churn, what, average 4 coaches? Back of the envelope very raw data, 6 to 1 or worse? And you have to give them 3 years.

 

[mrposhman]

Hawthorn are in the *smile* now because between 2009 and 2019 (or thereabouts they had about 2 1st rd picks and maybe 5 2nd rd picks. The ignored the draft once they got good, continued to ignore the draft when they were good, and once there decline hit they still ignored the draft for another year or 2.
is that what we have done?

Hawthorn is a good example. Haven't played finals since 2018, have only just "bottomed out", and have the youngest list in the comp. They are going to be 3-4 years away from finals at a minimum, so essentially from the last time they made finals, it would be close to 10 years before they then made finals again.

Thats what "bottoming out" relates to. You will stay half decent until your best players ultimately leave or retire, you won't have added good picks in the interim, and you will then slide to the bottom of the ladder for a number of years.

This is the cycle we are trying to break, we don't want to bottom out and are filling in the gaps with trades of older players that were top 10 picks, instead of waiting for the inevitable drop and the years of waiting in the wilderness.

 

[craig]

Hawthorn is a good example. Haven't played finals since 2018, have only just "bottomed out", and have the youngest list in the comp. They are going to be 3-4 years away from finals at a minimum, so essentially from the last time they made finals, it would be close to 10 years before they then made finals again.

Thats what "bottoming out" relates to. You will stay half decent until your best players ultimately leave or retire, you won't have added good picks in the interim, and you will then slide to the bottom of the ladder for a number of years.

This is the cycle we are trying to break, we don't want to bottom out and are filling in the gaps with trades of older players that were top 10 picks, instead of waiting for the inevitable drop and the years of waiting in the wilderness.

Hawthorn is like the RFC.

Weve both got 3 cups to cry into and 3 flags to wipe the tears away with.

Throw in 2008 and the hawks have 4.

Both sides are seriously inferior to the McCopies Magpies anyway apparently, neither would stand a chance against the current crop of Skunks.

 

[St Kevin]

I have posted on this before.

The idea that we need a fresh look coaching wise is IMO too premature. We are in a transition period regarding the list. But I do believe that there is a lot of promising young players on our list.

People (on here and many footy ‘experts’) calling for change seem to believe that we went all in this year with an ageing list to try and pinch another flag. Exhibit A apparently trading away amongst other things a first round pick for Taranto and Hopper.

The fact that our poor start to the season seems to have ruled us out of a flag chase is seen as a failure. But there are some big assumptions in this position, not the least being that that is what the club thought.

I take a different view. Firstly, I think we are right in the hunt for a finals spot this year. We are a team, even now, that no one really wants to play in a final.

Secondly, while I think the club did try to give itself the best chance of a flag that it could this year, it also has a longer term view that was actually the priority. The recruitment of Taranto and Hopper was about providing a solid midfield platform for moving forward in the next few years with a promising list of young players. Yes we will have some holes to cover and it cost us a first round pick, but the bedrock framework is still there.

Quite frankly, Dimma is in the best couple of coaches in the league at the moment. Coaches with his experience, ability and success rate are rarely available at any time, let alone at the moment. He has a proven track record, at our club for goodness sake, of building a formidably successful team.

I think he remains the best coach for us. If he wants out, then OK, but if he wants to stay, we need to facilitate that. Reinvigoration can come in many forms. If we need it, then go for it but I don’t see that issue being properly addressed by replacing Dimma.

Hear hear.

 

[yo_eddy]

Hawthorn is like the RFC.

Weve both got 3 cups to cry into and 3 flags to wipe the tears away with.

Throw in 2008 and the hawks have 4.

Both sides are seriously inferior to the McCopies Magpies anyway apparently, neither would stand a chance against the current crop of Skunks.

So true. At three quarter time in the 1971 GF Hawthorn and St Kilda had one premiership each.

Flags are everything and we have a hell of a GF record - 8-2 in my lifetime. Collingwood is 2-11. Never mind clubs who have had really, really good teams over a four to five year period and come up empty.

 

[King Kong]

Hawthorn are in the *smile* now because between 2009 and 2019 (or thereabouts they had about 2 1st rd picks and maybe 5 2nd rd picks. The ignored the draft once they got good, continued to ignore the draft when they were good, and once there decline hit they still ignored the draft for another year or 2.
is that what we have done?

We are well on the way after trading out of the 2020, 2022 and 2023 drafts and drafting half a dozen 1st and 2nd round spuds since Clarke took over.

 

[22nd Man]

Occurred to me that every premiership coach for 50 years 1966 to 2015 has coached at least one other club before or after their premiership club. Only exceptions Nicholls M Williams and Chris Scott and Longmire. All the premier coaches since 2016 plus the last two are still at their original club, early days. On that history Hard to say that Hardwick would not be interested in plying his trade elsewhere.
17 premier coaches in that time have coached at another club after premiership.

 

[Little Ziggyadee]

Occurred to me that every premiership coach for 50 years 1966 to 2015 has coached at least one other club before or after their premiership club. Only exceptions Nicholls M Williams and Chris Scott and Longmire. All the premier coaches since 2016 plus the last two are still at their original club, early days. On that history Hard to say that Hardwick would not be interested in plying his trade elsewhere.
17 premier coaches in that time have coached at another club after premiership.

Remember Jeans in 92?
Walls in 96?
They took us to premiership glory.

 

[BillyJean17]

I get your thinking but look at Clarko. His was the best coach in the league for 10 years and eventually the club politics, his own personality and some poor list management decisions lead to the club's complete demise. They are now a rabble after 7 or 8 years of middle of the road finishes. That is absolutely the same path we are on.

Dimma has off-field interests now, off-field issues and seems to lack the same focus and desire he had early on and the motivational methods ain't working now. Our confidence, skills, fitness and injuries are below the comp standard.

The best outcome for both Clarko and the Hawks has been to part ways and in hindsight it should have happened 3 years earlier than it did.

I'm of the firm belief you don't rebuild with a multiple premiership coach. It never works. Sheedy, Roo's, Malthouse and Clarko destroyed clubs with their continual desire to top up to stay competitive. After getting to the top of the mountain - ego and impatience gets in the way of starting again.

We need to reset if we fail again this year (which looks inevitable) and I would like to see a team of Leppa, Grigga and Chris Newman return to start that process from next year.

What off field issues and interests does he have , he’s well ensconced in a de facto relationships , he’s looking pretty happy to me . One thing that protagonists refuse to believe is that 30y plus vets should still be playing at same level as vintage 2017+ form . Doesn’t happen , anywhere . Most of our sen players are at about 70% where they were and can’t cover for 9 youngsters , yet the short sighted default to oh the coach has problems ,,, hello , dusty ain’t in 2017 form anymore buddy ,hello grimes ain’t I vintage firm anymore buddy , get real

 

[BillyJean17]

Shaun Grigg, Kane Lambert or Leppistch. Rance assistant

I think Newman would be rated no 1 , he’s successfully coached own side in box hill , has all hallmarks of being a qty coach in modern era . Grigg hasn’t done that , he too I believe would be very good , may be a risk without that experience