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Coronavirus

No point putting the Army in charge of a vaccine rollout when you know there isn't enough vaccine around to keep them busy.

It's a typical ScoMo move. Delegate to someone else and appeal to authoritarianism at the same time. Why would an army bloke know about vaccine distribution anyway?

What has worked really well is the state run vax centres, limited only by advertising and the usual fear mongering by the anti-vaxx nuts, as well as the age limitations. GPs as distribution points less so - often limited by supply. Do it all, but provide the supply and run a national vax ad campaign, no Liberal Party badging on it. This is what Morrison is meant to be good at.
 
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I guess we’ll have to accept “We don’t know”.
 
Out of respect for the rest of the thread readers I'm not going to run with this idiocy any further.
And you're too stupid to understand what's happening, even though it's been spelt out previously.

The rollout is slow because there's no detailed roadmap.

There's no detailed roadmap because...

Ready or not, the nation will reopen (paywalled)

The cold, hard truth about what comes next in the fight against Covid-19 is beyond depressing. It involves choices, all of which include negative outcomes.

Having done so well suppressing the spread of the virus – saving lives and livelihoods – countries such as Australia are in for a rude shock. We stay locked away from the rest of the world indefinitely or we accept that the time is coming soon when we need to open borders and let the virus rip through the community once everyone has had the chance to be vaccinated.

But here is the problem. Even once vaccines are fully available, it’s unlikely more than 70 per cent of the country will get the jab. We might be lucky to get to 60 per cent.

And that’s including a heroic assumption that those who do get vaccinated get their second jabs on time. If they don’t, or don’t get their second jab at all, the protection the vaccine provides is much more limited.

Even the countries doing the best job of securing widespread vaccinations aren’t nudging beyond the 70 per cent mark. That includes model states such as Israel. Most are nowhere near it.

While anyone who gets the vaccine is protected to the point of avoiding serious illness or death, once vaccinated you still can catch Covid and you absolutely still can pass it on to others. The hope is that it becomes no worse than the flu. In fact, the evidence seems to be that when you’re vaccinated Covid symptoms aren’t even that bad.

But if less than 70 per cent of Australians ultimately get the jab, that leaves three out of every 10 voters (at least) who don’t. They will continue to be at risk of serious illness or death from the virus. While for most of them that’s their choice, their fault, their stupidity, they are still voters in our democratic polity.

It’s a brave political leader who simply tells them: “Bad luck, you’ve got another month to sort out your vaccinations, after which we are opening the borders and we wish you all the best avoiding death.”

But in time that message, albeit delivered with more nuance, might be necessary.

Covid isn’t going away any time soon. It will be circling the globe for many years to come. Once every Australian has had the chance to be vaccinated, good public policy likely will dictate that we need to open back up.

But allowing Covid to enter Australia in a way it has not yet done will make lockdowns such as the current one in Melbourne completely unsustainable on the low numbers we are seeing now.

Are our political leaders willing to let potentially thousands of people catch Covid every week? Because that’s not unrealistic. If that happens simple maths tell us hundreds of them won’t be vaccinated, meaning in turn many Australians will get seriously ill and die.

Most will be anti-vaxxers, who arguably get what they deserve. Some will be citizens who are time-poor or disorganised. Their failure to take personal responsibility will be something they may rue. But there also will be the vulnerable: the homeless, for example, and Australians who for health reasons can’t get the jab.

Certainly they all will be at greater risk when things open back up.

Unless countries like us that have been better at managing the worst of the virus stay closed off, they soon will experience a micro-version of what nations such as the US and Britain did early on during the pandemic.

What can we do about it beyond brace for the inevitable?

Awareness campaigns to get more people vaccinated are one option. Carrots and sticks to increase the numbers are another. We could make it mandatory to get the jab, but that’s unlikely to happen. Forcing Australians to get an injection sounds more like a sci-fi thriller than reasonable government policy.

For the government’s part, it still doesn’t know how it plans to approach this looming moment. It hopes only to have to do so after the next election, which is probably right. But planning for it must start now. It will be the single biggest challenge of the crisis. It will be the moment political leaders must find a way to cut through with the public when urging as many as possible to get vaccinated. And it will be a tough ask for our politicians to stay the course if they do decide we must open up and people start dying.

What happens when the number of cases dramatically increases? Does the media fearmonger? Does the opposition take political advantage of that moment? Do the federal and state governments stay on the same page or fracture with differing responses?

We have seen plenty of issues divide communities through the years, here and abroad. The vaccinated and the unvaccinated loom as perhaps the most powerful dividing line of our generation, depending on how political leaders manage the challenge.

- - - - -

Nobody is in a rush to make a decision that will cause Australians to die.
 
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Why would an army bloke know about vaccine distribution anyway?
I think you're selling the Army short when it comes to logistics. The UK rollout was overseen by the military and they did an amazing job.
 
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And you're too stupid to understand what's happening, even though it's been spelt out previously.

The rollout is slow because there's no detailed roadmap.

There's no detailed roadmap because...

Ready or not, the nation will reopen (paywalled)

The cold, hard truth about what comes next in the fight against Covid-19 is beyond depressing. It involves choices, all of which include negative outcomes.

Having done so well suppressing the spread of the virus – saving lives and livelihoods – countries such as Australia are in for a rude shock. We stay locked away from the rest of the world indefinitely or we accept that the time is coming soon when we need to open borders and let the virus rip through the community once everyone has had the chance to be vaccinated.

But here is the problem. Even once vaccines are fully available, it’s unlikely more than 70 per cent of the country will get the jab. We might be lucky to get to 60 per cent.

And that’s including a heroic assumption that those who do get vaccinated get their second jabs on time. If they don’t, or don’t get their second jab at all, the protection the vaccine provides is much more limited.

Even the countries doing the best job of securing widespread vaccinations aren’t nudging beyond the 70 per cent mark. That includes model states such as Israel. Most are nowhere near it.

While anyone who gets the vaccine is protected to the point of avoiding serious illness or death, once vaccinated you still can catch Covid and you absolutely still can pass it on to others. The hope is that it becomes no worse than the flu. In fact, the evidence seems to be that when you’re vaccinated Covid symptoms aren’t even that bad.

But if less than 70 per cent of Australians ultimately get the jab, that leaves three out of every 10 voters (at least) who don’t. They will continue to be at risk of serious illness or death from the virus. While for most of them that’s their choice, their fault, their stupidity, they are still voters in our democratic polity.

It’s a brave political leader who simply tells them: “Bad luck, you’ve got another month to sort out your vaccinations, after which we are opening the borders and we wish you all the best avoiding death.”

But in time that message, albeit delivered with more nuance, might be necessary.

Covid isn’t going away any time soon. It will be circling the globe for many years to come. Once every Australian has had the chance to be vaccinated, good public policy likely will dictate that we need to open back up.

But allowing Covid to enter Australia in a way it has not yet done will make lockdowns such as the current one in Melbourne completely unsustainable on the low numbers we are seeing now.

Are our political leaders willing to let potentially thousands of people catch Covid every week? Because that’s not unrealistic. If that happens simple maths tell us hundreds of them won’t be vaccinated, meaning in turn many Australians will get seriously ill and die.

Most will be anti-vaxxers, who arguably get what they deserve. Some will be citizens who are time-poor or disorganised. Their failure to take personal responsibility will be something they may rue. But there also will be the vulnerable: the homeless, for example, and Australians who for health reasons can’t get the jab.

Certainly they all will be at greater risk when things open back up.

Unless countries like us that have been better at managing the worst of the virus stay closed off, they soon will experience a micro-version of what nations such as the US and Britain did early on during the pandemic.

What can we do about it beyond brace for the inevitable?

Awareness campaigns to get more people vaccinated are one option. Carrots and sticks to increase the numbers are another. We could make it mandatory to get the jab, but that’s unlikely to happen. Forcing Australians to get an injection sounds more like a sci-fi thriller than reasonable government policy.

For the government’s part, it still doesn’t know how it plans to approach this looming moment. It hopes only to have to do so after the next election, which is probably right. But planning for it must start now. It will be the single biggest challenge of the crisis. It will be the moment political leaders must find a way to cut through with the public when urging as many as possible to get vaccinated. And it will be a tough ask for our politicians to stay the course if they do decide we must open up and people start dying.

What happens when the number of cases dramatically increases? Does the media fearmonger? Does the opposition take political advantage of that moment? Do the federal and state governments stay on the same page or fracture with differing responses?

We have seen plenty of issues divide communities through the years, here and abroad. The vaccinated and the unvaccinated loom as perhaps the most powerful dividing line of our generation, depending on how political leaders manage the challenge.

- - - - -

Nobody is in a rush to make a decision that will cause Australians to die.

I know exactly what's gone on, and what is going on. The past - a commitment from the feds that they failed to achieve. A series of revised targets, missed. Australia being leapfrogged by countries in much worse positions, who will open up sooner. You can't or won't admit this because of your ideological focus on locking Australia up, terrorism and an inabilty to admit that ScoMo can make errors.

You on the other hand claimed that the roll-out was "low priority", surely the most boneheaded statement on the thread. Even the Libs have woken up that it's not low priority. And that article doesn't dispute the priority at all. It's high priority.

Read it again. That article is all about the politics of the botched roll-out and how the Coalition can recover.

Look, everyone in Australia knows the vaccine roll-out has been an unmitigated disaster, even if The Australian is trying it's best to cover the SloCo's arse. And here's the key line from the article that you missed.

"Covid isn’t going away any time soon. It will be circling the globe for many years to come. Once every Australian has had the chance to be vaccinated, good public policy likely will dictate that we need to open back up."

Speed up the vaccine roll-out. It will protect the vulnerable and the healthy. It will protect business and prevent future lockdowns. It will allow industries like tourism and education to open up again. Sounds good eh?
 
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I think you're selling the Army short when it comes to logistics. The UK rollout was overseen by the military and they did an amazing job.

Yeah scomo's not doing that though. He's got an ex-military bloke to "oversee" the program. The UK roll-out and vaccination rate has been incredibly impressive and that's pretty good for a Boris Johnston led government. We could definitely learn from that.
 
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I know exactly what's gone on, and what is going on. The past - a commitment from the feds that they failed to achieve. You can't or won't admit this. A series of revised targets, missed. Australia being leapfrogged by countries in much worse positions, who will open up sooner.

You on the other hand claimed that the roll-out was "low priority", surely the most boneheaded statement on the thread. Even the Libs 0have woken up that it's not low priority. And that article doesn't dispute the priority at all. It's high priority.

Read it again. That article is all about the politics of the botched roll-out and how the Coalition can recover.

Look, everyone in Australia knows the vaccine roll-out has been an unmitigated disaster, even if The Australian is trying it's best to cover the SloCo's arse. And here's the key line from the article that you missed.

"Covid isn’t going away any time soon. It will be circling the globe for many years to come. Once every Australian has had the chance to be vaccinated, good public policy likely will dictate that we need to open back up."

Speed up the vaccine roll-out. It will protect the vulnerable and the healthy. It will protect business and prevent future lockdowns. It will allow industries like tourism and education to open up again. Sounds good eh?
It just won't sink in with you that the vaccine rollout has been - as I've said previously - LOW PRIORITY.

What you're raging against is the delay in opening up and the consequent deaths of thousands of Australians. You're in a rush like - as I've said previously - a lemming.

Should the feds have a concrete plan? Probably. What should the plan be? :help
 
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It just won't sink in with you that the vaccine rollout has been - as I've said previously - LOW PRIORITY.

What you're raging against is the delay in opening up and the consequent deaths of thousands of Australians. You're in a rush like - as I've said previously - a lemming.

Should the feds have a concrete plan? Probably. What should the plan be? :help

So low priority that they are running at 25% of their own vaccination targets. You thought it should be low (wrong), the government said it was high (lies) and reverted to the "it's not a race" BS once it was clear they had lost the race against the virus and the new variants.

Here's a plan, which is bloody obvious really.

1. Set up genuine quarantine facilities - probably too late for this part of the pandemic, but may come in useful in future.
2. Develop a real strategy for future pandemics - pretty clear we didn't have one, which is not the current government's fault, but let's make one
3. Source more vaccines of all types - don't put all your eggs in the one vaccine basket. We put all eggs with Uni of QLD - fail because of the HIV positive issue, and AZ because of Morrison trying to save a few bucks. Get moderna, AZ, Pfizer, and set up local manufacturing if possible.
4. Sort out distribution - we have the infrastructure at state and GP level but they are grossly undersupplied. Sort that out.
5. Get vulnerable people vaccinated - elderly, disabled, so far this is a fail. VicGov is now taking up the slack.
6. Get frontliners vaccinated - so far this is a fail. VicGov has just set up a program for ambos and paramedics for example. More of this.
7. National "Get Vaccinated" campaign - no BS liberal party badging on it either. Encourage everyone to vaxx, with sound science to back it up. Make tough decisions about those who refuse vaccinations around domestic travel and education.
8. Make vaccines available to everyone who wants them regardless of age - the priority system has been a fail so far.
9. Make a real target of when the country will be vaccinated enough to open up. "We will be 80% vaccinated by March next year and then we will do a controlled open up by this date" - these types of travellers can enter, these industries will open up - eg education for these overseas students from these countries, tourism for these travellers from these countries provided they are vaccinated
Businesses and industries need a plan and some certainty.
10. Support for education/tourism industries to help them stand up again.
11. Monitor the science, consider revising plans if we get new variants that are totally vaccine resistant for now, for example.

There you go, came up with that in 5 minutes.
 
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Since you don't want to talk meaningfully about this, I'm going to pass. Go Tiges.

PS - look up the meaning of the word "literally".
 
Since you don't want to talk meaningfully about this, I'm going to pass. Go Tiges.

PS - look up the meaning of the word "literally".
You’re raging against a problem that does not exist. I’ve stated this when I tried to explain why I haven’t been vaccinated and it prompted personal attacks.

But go ahead and rant against evil Scummo.
 
You’re raging against a problem that does not exist. I’ve stated this when I tried to explain why I haven’t been vaccinated and it prompted personal attacks.

But go ahead and rant against evil Scummo.

So who's responsibility is it to set the roadmap for Australia?
 
So who's responsibility is it to set the roadmap for Australia?
Morrison’s of course! People would be justified in demanding to know the plan. He’s getting off very light on that score.

A rolled gold certainty is that opening up won’t happen until every Australian has been given ample opportunity to be fully vaccinated.
 
Sad to see what small business owners are going through. This city is a ghetto as most want to WFH.
 
Morrison’s of course! People would be justified in demanding to know the plan. He’s getting off very light on that score.

A rolled gold certainty is that opening up won’t happen until every Australian has been given ample opportunity to be vaccinated.

He's already suggested that though. They just haven't stated what the % is before they start to re-open.

In terms of reopening once vaccines are out. I expect unless we see significant hospitalisations (ie. covid + flu should theoretically be at a similar level to previous flu seasons, maybe marginally higher) then we shouldn't see lockdowns and then we start to live with it. I suspect covid will still kill people but we will see a decline in the numbers that die from flu (ie. they will be replacement deaths), but we must be vaccinated prior to opening again.
 
He's already suggested that though. They just haven't stated what the % is before they start to re-open.

In terms of reopening once vaccines are out. I expect unless we see significant hospitalisations (ie. covid + flu should theoretically be at a similar level to previous flu seasons, maybe marginally higher) then we shouldn't see lockdowns and then we start to live with it. I suspect covid will still kill people but we will see a decline in the numbers that die from flu (ie. they will be replacement deaths), but we must be vaccinated prior to opening again.
The only vague timeline provided has been “mid-2022”, and I doubt they’ll open in autumn/winter. Those already vaccinated may well require a booster by then.
 
Morrison’s of course! People would be justified in demanding to know the plan. He’s getting off very light on that score.

A rolled gold certainty is that opening up won’t happen until every Australian has been given ample opportunity to be fully vaccinated.

Exactly what we've all been saying, thanks.