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  • IMPORTANT // Please look after your loved ones, yourself and be kind to others. If you are feeling that the world is too hard to handle there is always help - I implore you not to hesitate in contacting one of these wonderful organisations Lifeline and Beyond Blue ... and I'm sure reaching out to our PRE community we will find a way to help. T.

Coronavirus

caesar said:
The VIC trajectory is startling and an indictment on Victorian behaviors, you cannot separate us from what NSW has done.

NSW took 55 days to go from zero cases to 200 VIC only 31 days :eek:
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Yep. And I get it... I'm over it too. I don't break the rules except probably spending too much time outside walking the dog. i walk around with a mask on even though its just me and him mostly. He's fit as now, got ribs and abs like Alex Rance. Dunno why but it's not having the same effect on me.
 
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Just got news my son in law, just lost a 2nd uncle in Sth Africa.
Unsure at this stage if vaxed or which strain of Covoid he was exposed to.
 
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lamb22 said:
I would argue that all knowledge flows up like the steroid example I gave earlier. I would also argue that quite a number of experts (who have been employed by WHO to review the efficacy of medical evidence) have done so and found efficacy.
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And here's another problem for you - the Tess Lawrie who you cited earlier as being employed by WHO, produced work of dubious quality.

Lawrie's work was taken from the FLCCC - another pro-Ivermectin group you've cited before. And here are just some of the problems with the work she and the FLCCC cite.

1630659738715.png

healthfeedback.org

Ivermectin isn’t a highly effective drug for treating COVID-19

Scientific evidence doesn’t support the use of ivermectin as a treatment for COVID-19. Clinical trials must be designed and executed appropriately to show the efficacy and safety of a given drug for treating a particular disease. Clinical trials that show beneficial effects of using ivermectin...
healthfeedback.org healthfeedback.org

It's a classic case of confirmation bias - cite studies that bear out the results you want, and try really hard not to the notice the flaws in those studies.
 
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lamb22 said:
I would argue that all knowledge flows up like the steroid example I gave earlier. I would also argue that quite a number of experts (who have been employed by WHO to review the efficacy of medical evidence) have done so and found efficacy.
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The other expert you mentioned - Andrew Hill. He was indeed employed by WHO and produced the meta study referred to here.

swprs.org

Covid-19: WHO-sponsored preliminary review indicates Ivermectin effectiveness (2020)

WHO-sponsored review of ivermectin trials indicates 83% reduction in covid mortality.
swprs.org swprs.org

All good, very effective, big tick for ivermectin.

But no - this study included to the discredited and withdrawn Elgazzar study from Egypt - around half of the total of the aggregated sample came from this study. By the way, when I mentioned this study earlier you said you were well aware of it. This was a study where the RESEARCHER FAKED THE DATA showing ivermectin was effective, and you wonder why some of us are sceptical. But still, just one guy right? Doesn't disprove Ivermectin's effectiveness.

The discovery and removal of the faked data led to the removal and revision of Hill's study. Hill seems to be a stand up guy though.

"Lead author Andrew Hill, PhD, of the University of Liverpool in England, said in an email to MedPage Today that his team will be "re-running our analysis with the Elgazzar trial removed."

Hill added that his team will also include a recently published 500-patient randomized controlled trial from Argentina, published in BMC Infectious Diseases, which found no effect for ivermectin in terms of preventing hospitalization in patients with COVID-19. It also found that those who received ivermectin required invasive ventilation sooner than those on placebo.

"In our published paper, we emphasized the preliminary nature of our results and the need to continue more definitive studies," Hill noted in the email."

www.medpagetoday.com

Large Ivermectin Study Retracted

Preprint publisher finds evidence of plagiarism, problems with raw data
www.medpagetoday.com www.medpagetoday.com

And you claim that some of us don't argue in "good faith".
 
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I don't have any problem with relevant data Anty, and adding it to the mix. That trial you mentioned was linked by me earlier in this thread in that site you mocked. As I've said I've provided links to all the studies positive equivocal and negative. That's probably arguing in good faith rather than just cherry picking outliers.
 
Al Bundy said:
Just got news my son in law, just lost a 2nd uncle in Sth Africa.
Unsure at this stage if vaxed or which strain of Covoid he was exposed to.
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Thanks all.
Was advised unvaxed.
Rest of the family caught it too in the same houshold but to date they are doing okay. Didnt need hospitalisation. (unsure if they were vaxed) didnt want to ask Qs, just listened. Unsure of CV19-strain.

As we have all seen from last yr, he died alone in hospital.
 
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Al Bundy said:
Thanks all.
Was advised unvaxed.
Rest of the family caught it too in the same houshold but to date they are doing okay. Didnt need hospitalisation. (unsure if they were vaxed) didnt want to ask Qs, just listened. Unsure of CV19-strain.

As we have all seen from last yr, he died alone in hospital.
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Very sad, and sobering to hear individual accounts, condolences!

It's easy to forget the tragic stories behind the daily numbers we wake up to each morning.
 
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lamb22 said:
I don't have any problem with relevant data Anty, and adding it to the mix. That trial you mentioned was linked by me earlier in this thread in that site you mocked. As I've said I've provided links to all the studies positive equivocal and negative. That's probably arguing in good faith rather than just cherry picking outliers.
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So why did you use both Tess Lawrie (discredited study) and Andrew Hill (flawed metastudy) as examples of experts? Because despite banging on about how data-focussed you are you haven't actually read their work, or the critiques of them.

Here's a challenge - provide 1 (one) peer-reviewed, double blind, placebo controlled, randomised study that's up in a tier one medical journal that supports ivermectin as a beneficial treatment ie that reduces actual mortality.

For example, here's a double blind randomized peer-reviewed clinical trial that showed no benefit. https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/fullarticle/2777389
 
caesar said:
Very sad, and sobering to hear individual accounts, condolences!

It's easy to forget the tragic stories behind the daily numbers we wake up to each morning.
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True, until it hits the home front...

I remember reading ealrier I think Ian4 was mentioning how the family finally convinced his mum to get the jab. Great.
In melb, I have the opposite, uncle & auntie in late 80s after sometime, finally got vaxed yet their sons (my cousins) wont. Sad. keep trying to nudge one I'm close too but to no avail.
 
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DavidSSS said:
You're the one arguing to let it rip, I am just wondering if you are willing to be one of the people who die as a result of more virus circulating? I don't want to let it rip, I want everyone to be safer with low case numbers until we have all had the chance to be vaccinated.



Yeah, my exercise when I can get out is to go for a ride. I ride past Elwood, StKilda and Brighton beaches. I stay on the road because of the traffic on the beach bike path, and anyway, I don't want whatever they might have. You are so right about the crowds on the beach, really busy, all the parking spots taken. No-one can tell me they all live within 5KM, clearly too many people at the beach. If this is a lockdown how come so many people are driving to the beach and the beach is packed all day when we're only allowed out for a couple of hours of exercise? The crap weather coming over the weekend will at least stop all those people hanging around together on the beach, and mixing nearby at coffee shops and the like. Just silly.
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Dead'll b dead, cooties, traffic accident, old age, won't make any difference.

Hope you live somewhere in the middle of that suburban graphic there David. Reckon you might be pushin *smile* out of your 5K boundary if your at either end, might be wise to bring your tape measure.
 
Well it seems the Ivermectin "proof" is shredded, time to wait for some real research. Time to stop touting it as some miracle cure too, grossly irresponsible to do so.

TigerMasochist, yep, I live somewhere in the middle, there were 5KM maps last year, I know where I can go and, no, I don't go beyond 5KM.

Wasting time on the latest rubbish from social media and RWNJs is simply boring, and distracts from the real issues.

Despite locking down we seem to be heading in the wrong direction in Vic, not sure if it a case of the lockdown not being followed or the new variant being too hard to control, but, it ain't looking good at the moment. A couple of graphs from the Guardian show a disturbing trend:

COVID Cases VIC 03092021.jpg

Hopefully it will turn at some point. The crap weather over the weekend in Melbourne might help. The only thing helping us in Victoria is the lower case numbers which would be easier to trace, but it is looking very difficult.

Higher numbers but a less steep curve in NSW:

COVID Cases NSW 03092021.jpg

Can't believe Gladys is claiming it will turn in the next couple of weeks. Why is it likely to flatten out or peak, what evidence suggests that? None I can see.

No visiting on Fathers' Day I'm afraid, we need to get this down and get vaccinated

DS
 
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Not sure if reported in mainstream media.

In the last week, an additional 9 reports of blood clots and low blood platelets have been assessed as confirmed or probable TTS. Sadly, two people died this week – a 59-year-old woman from Queensland with confirmed TTS and a 54-year-old man from NSW with probable TTS. Both were following their first dose of the AstraZeneca vaccine.
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COVID-19 vaccine weekly safety report - 02-09-2021

Information about the TGA's safety monitoring of COVID-19 vaccines.
www.tga.gov.au www.tga.gov.au
 
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