Coronavirus | PUNT ROAD END | Richmond Tigers Forum
  • IMPORTANT // Please look after your loved ones, yourself and be kind to others. If you are feeling that the world is too hard to handle there is always help - I implore you not to hesitate in contacting one of these wonderful organisations Lifeline and Beyond Blue ... and I'm sure reaching out to our PRE community we will find a way to help. T.

Coronavirus

Why is appealing for people to show personal responsibility rubbish? What that means to me is don't put yourself in positions where you are at risk? Which then puts your family at risk. Don't go indoors anywhere unless its your own house or unless you really have to. eg food/medicine. Why is that rubbish?

Even when we have rules do 100% of the people comply? eg the couple that left Vic and took virus to Qld, the driver not wearing a mask in Syd, the removalists not complying with all the conditions of their permit, the families returning from NSW and not quarantining correctly. People not using the QR code system. What do we do with those people? Punish them?

Ultimately our federal government has failed miserably with zero leadership and allowed the different approaches and confusion and outbreaks that have followed. 95% is on Scomo.
Appealing for it to happen is not rubbish but expecting that everyone will do it is.
it just doesn’t work because all you need is a very small percentage of morons and it is all over for the rest of us. It is the naivety of Gladys and her government that somehow the reality is different that is the issue.
i would be happy to rely on people to do the right thing but I can’t and neither can our governments when the margin for error is so thin
 
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The sad thing is you and Brodders highlight what a lazy, boneheaded society we have become. Don't you think there is something wrong with this sentence?

but we don't know if the people that have tested positive and were in the community, whether they even knew they were at risk.


Hopefully Georgia can update us with the amount of spreading there has been from people being outdoors at the beach? Or in a park? Perhaps you could point out how many cases of transmission have occurred in these environments?

No, I don't see whats wrong with that. Are those of us who haven't been informed or a contact site not stated, not allowed to go and buy food for our families? Its one of the 5 reasons to leave the house.

What I'm saying before we hang the people that are "in the community", if contact tracing is so far behind (which it clearly is) then if those people hadn't been told that they were primary contacts at the time and therefore had to be in isolation then as long as they are just doing what they should be doing, then they haven't done anything wrong. The issue in that case is clearly with contact tracing and most likely the result of not going hard enough initially so that contact tracers could keep up with the demand. You see how quickly the number of primary contacts has grown in VIC, we've had 40 cases over the last 3 days and have 10,000 primary contacts. In the same time period (and they had way more before those 3 days before) NSW have had more than 300 cases, its feasible to assume they could have grown primary contacts by over 100,000 in the last 3 days, indicating how quickly CT can get away from you.

There are definitely people doing the wrong thing in Sydney, as I'm sure there are in Melbourne, but those that are testing positive may be doing the right thing.
 
I was just talking to a mate who just came back from a short family holiday to south Australia. They left here Tuesday morning before all the *smile* happened and came back to Melbourne Friday morning during the lockdown.
Arriving in Adelaide the passengers were immediately met by the police as they disembarked from the plane. They were told to make sure they were distanced from other passengers not in your group/ family. They were directed to officials and their permits checked and questions asked of each passenger. Arriving back at Melbourne airport there were no police, nobody to check permits, nobody questioned. They tried to social distance from others but were one of the few who bothered. To go to their baggage they brushed passed passengers waiting to fly out. They saw 2 COVID marshals and overheard one say to the other” maybe we should try and separate everyone”. Getting to the baggage carousel everyone was bumping and jostling each other. No security. The first cops they saw was when they were about to leave the terminal to get to their car.
Is the government serious about trying to prevent the “incursion” of this disease coming in from interstate/overseas or are they just happy to lockdown after it’s entered Victoria ?
 
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Just got back from walking dogs. Lots of people in the park, most no masks. No real social distancing. Kids in the playground. People walking dogs standing in groups chatting. This was typical of the Melb lockdown. Yet we have people posting photos of Sydney siders doing the same thing raging at their recklessness. Hypocrites.
 
On the eve of ‘Freedom day’, the UK is in the grip of Covid chaos (paywalled)

UK prime minister Boris Johnson has been promising for months that all coronavirus restrictions in the UK will end on Monday, with a “big bang” freedom day.

But with more than half a million people in isolation as cases hit more than 50,000 a day, one of his predecessors as prime minister says such loose language will only fuel Britain’s third wave. Tony Blair, 68, whose self-titled institute has dedicated its resources to fighting the pandemic, said: “I would have been reluctant to use that kind of language. The one thing we’ve learnt about Covid is that any hope we had at the beginning of this, which is that this would be a crisis with a defined beginning, middle and end, is unfortunately not correct.”

He added: “I understand why everyone wants these restrictions to end but ... you’ve just got to look at the data and it’s pretty clear this is not over.”

One in 95 people in England has Covid, according to the Office for National Statistics. In Scotland the figure is one in 90. The rate in Wales is lower, one in 360, and in Northern Ireland it is one in 290. Hospital admissions rose 61 per cent last week to 4.43 for every 100,000 people.

The figures are sobering after 16 months of unprecedented peacetime restrictions, including limits on social gatherings, compulsory facemasks in public places and Orwellian “stay at home” messages.

Hopes were raised that the worst of the pandemic was over when Johnson announced his plan to end restrictions tomorrow to boost the economy and national morale. Then it emerged that 530,126 alerts telling people to self-isolate had been sent in the seven days to July 7 - a 46 per cent rise on the previous week. The government is refusing to change the sensitivity of the NHS contact-tracing app that tells people when to stay at home. Downing Street insiders claim that the app in its present form acts as the ultimate “emergency brake” and is needed to stop cases spiralling “out of control”.

Blair predicted the number of people being “pinged” would rise further, plunging the economy into even more chaos. A report to be published tomorrow by the Tony Blair Institute for Global Change predicts that the number forced to isolate from now until August 16 - when a test-to-release scheme is expected for those who have been double-jabbed - could hit ten million. He adds that the risk with freedom day is that the country is moving in “two completely contradictory directions” by restoring liberties while sending huge numbers home through Test and Trace.

Tomorrow his report will recommend an immediate end to self-isolation for anyone double-jabbed or under 18 who comes into contact with a positive case. He will also recommend a fast release for the single-jabbed if they test negative four days after contact with a Covid case, with quarantine shortened from ten days to seven for those who test positive. “What we suggest is that for the double- vaccinated you treat them differently,” he said. “And even for those who are unvaccinated you use lateral flow tests to get them out of self-isolation fast.

“The starting point for me is that you’ve got to have a consistent risk calculus. There’s no point trying to obliterate risk in one part of the landscape while you’re opening yourself up to substantial risk in another part.” He added that treating vaccinated and unvaccinated people differently is at the heart of a “consistent approach to risk”.

Blair fears that unless the government cuts the level of chaos, millions of people will delete the NHS app. He has not given in to that temptation himself but knows people who have. “You risk the situation where there will be employers saying to their employees ... ‘You know, you’re double-vaccinated, you’ve got this app on your phone, you get pinged - I can’t run my business.’”

He added: “It just doesn’t make any sense. You’ve got a situation with Test and Trace where you are closing down large parts of the economy, which runs in completely the opposite direction to what the lifting of restrictions is supposed to do.

“Nothing is risk-free apart from permanent lockdown and isolation, which we know we can’t do. The question is to take a sensible view of risk.”

Blair believes that waiting until August 16 to change the self-isolation rules for those who have been double-vaccinated is a mistake and risks turmoil in tourism and hospitality during the vital summer months. “I just don’t understand why we don’t do it now,” he complains.

Blair’s report, “Risks and Restrictions: Striking the Right Balance”, proposes giving adolescents over 12 the Pfizer vaccine. He believes the law should continue to require facemasks in settings such as public transport and shops.

“I don’t think it’s a big imposition on people to wear masks, if they’re in spaces where you’ve got a lot of other people - public transport is a very obvious one,” he said. “You might get to the end of August/September and find that you can relax that. I would be worried about relaxing it now ... it’s very hard to make this voluntary ... I think you need to provide certainty; otherwise people start rowing with each other as to whether they should have a mask on or not. I just think you should be pretty clear about it.” He added that in a shop, bus or train, “I would still be wearing a mask ... I don’t think it’s a big hardship.”

Blair’s report backs the introduction of vaccine passports “to restore confidence in hospitality and to avoid super-spreader events”. He would have had such a scheme “from the very beginning”, as happened in Israel.

“I’ve spoken to several of the big tour operators and those operating cruise ships and so on,” he said. “Their customers are not prepared to come on unless they know that everyone’s vaccinated ... the very least the government should do is facilitate it in a simple way.”

Such a scheme would also incentivise those who are eligible for the jab but have not had it. “Significant numbers of the people in hospital are unvaccinated and eligible for the jab. You know, I’m not sympathetic at all. If you’re saying, ‘I’ve just decided not to get vaccinated’, I think you should be subject to more restriction. That’s your choice. But I don’t see why I shouldn’t - if I’ve been vaccinated - have the maximum freedom it is sensible to give to people who are vaccinated.”

Blair, who is the only living Labour leader to have steered his party to a general election victory, holding power for a decade from 1997, has become something of a prophet in the pandemic. He was an early proponent of mass testing, using the term “moonshot” in a report that foreshadowed the government’s later plan of the same name, as well as the use of masks and quarantine.

His biographer, John Rentoul, said recently: “So much of this is obvious to him and he struggles to understand why it isn’t obvious to others.”

So would he make a better prime minister now than he did when he had the keys to No 10? “I’ll tell you one thing which is shocking, which is how much you learn when you get out of the world of politics,” Blair laughs. “And I think ... one of the things you’ve got to do in a crisis like this is really scour the planet for the best ideas going and just absorb them.”

Since the pandemic began, Blair has repurposed his think tank to address Covid-19. It employs 230 people, the bulk of them in its government advisory arm.

He shifted the organisation’s focus partly because of what he perceived as a lack of international leadership. He has used his prominence in the Covid debate to influence policy and is understood to have held meetings with Matt Hancock, the former health secretary, and Baroness Harding of Winscombe, the former head of NHS Test and Trace, to share his thinking.

“I have a network of people that I speak to, not just in the UK but in different parts of the world, and we’ve been very lucky to acquire a really good group of people who are practical-minded,” he said. “I do talk to people in government ... they’re completely open to that.”

Blair has drawn praise from unlikely quarters during the pandemic, including Nigel Farage, the former Ukip leader, who called for him to head the vaccines effort. But would he ever accept a job in government?

“I’m perfectly happy to help in any way,” he replies. “But I understand why, if you’re in government and the existing prime minister, you might look askance at bringing someone like me in to do something.” He adds: “We speak to people in any political party. We just want them to get the right answer. And the work we do is available to everyone.”

He is vexed by the number of people waiting for hospital treatment, which Sajid Javid, the health secretary, warned last weekend could reach 13 million. Blair made cutting waiting lists a key promise for New Labour before his 1997 general election victory, along with a commitment to increase NHS funding by more than a third.

“This is a huge, huge problem,” he said. “I think it’s going to mean a big emergency recovery programme. There are lots of people who haven’t had their treatment - cancer, heart patients, just normal things. I mean, without going into detail, I know myself it’s actually really, really difficult ... to get things fixed at the moment.

“And I think the other thing you’ve got is large numbers of NHS staff who are either exhausted and need a break, or have been through real trauma in the last 18 months. And I would be not at all surprised if we see staff shortages.”

He added: “I think with the health service it won’t just be about money; you’re going to have to organise things differently. I haven’t studied the detail yet, but I’ve got a team of people working on it.”

Having spent much of lockdown focusing on the problems of a country he once ran, Blair has prompted speculation that he is hungry to return to the front line of British politics.

A poll by YouGov published at the beginning of this month revealed that Jeremy Corbyn is even less popular among card-carrying socialists than his old foe Blair. The survey of Labour members found more than half - 55 per cent - had a favourable opinion of the former prime minister, compared with 53 per cent for Corbyn.

But Blair says he is not “planning any comeback”. Not even if Corbyn’s seat of Islington North were to become available? He laughs: “There is still, I’m afraid, a large part of the Labour Party who would not be in favour of that.

“I’m totally switched on to British politics and what’s happening and I’m really interested in it. But even if I wanted to return, the difficulties are manifest. So I don’t spend my time thinking of it.”
 
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There are medical staff in isolation in Mildura because they treated someone who walked into the hospital. Should they have stayed outside?
I blame the government for not doing enough to let him know he was at an exposure site. It’s not his fault he was at the same place as someone with covid. It’s squarely on the VIC government.
 
Just got back from walking dogs. Lots of people in the park, most no masks. No real social distancing. Kids in the playground. People walking dogs standing in groups chatting. This was typical of the Melb lockdown. Yet we have people posting photos of Sydney siders doing the same thing raging at their recklessness. Hypocrites.
I blame the government for not doing enough to let him know he was at an exposure site. It’s not his fault he was at the same place as someone with covid. It’s squarely on the VIC government.
He was at the MCG members on the weekend before.
Tier 1 site.
Everyone in Vic knows it was.
He was required to isolate and have a covid test.
Appears he did not do this.
Surely you would notify in advance the hospital that you are presenting with symptoms of covid and have been in a tier 1 site to avoid exposure to staff.
Unless there is more to it , I think he is at fault and would have well known his responsibilities.
Also, contact tracers have contact numbers for all MCG members that night so have to assume he was contacted well before this and instructed to isolate and be tested.
 
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He was at the MCG members on the weekend before.
Tier 1 site.
Everyone in Vic knows it was.
He was required to isolate and have a covid test.
Appears he did not do this.
Surely you would notify in advance the hospital that you are presenting with symptoms of covid and have been in a tier 1 site to avoid exposure to staff.
Unless there is more to it , I think he is at fault and would have well known his responsibilities.
Also, contact tracers have contact numbers for all MCG members that night so have to assume he was contacted well before this and instructed to isolate and be tested.
No no no. It’s the governments fault for not letting him know. Dan should have called him personally. What a joke.
 
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We do need to be starting to have the discussions (although we are in lockdown) under what parameters we will open up. UK will show what we have to entertain.

There will be death and a different attitude required (like the road toll) where you need to take reasonable precautions and manage your risk. One of my mates is convinced we will continue to go for zero deaths for a long time. I just don’t see it as sustainable (once everyone has a reasonable chance to vaccinate). nor do most of the people I associate with But not sure what the overarching goal will be.

personally once everyone has a reasonable chance to get jabbed (and I’m not sure down to what until what age of kids) then I think it needs to be let rip (assuming no new variant the vaccine doesn’t work on). If that’s at 70% population then so be it. Or 80% etc.
 
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What? Source?

Can't reveal my source. But its accurate.

How is this Tik Tok nobody comedian getting the NSW numbers early? Is it a deliberate distraction? Bizarre.

remember the dud COVID Safe app we were all told to download in mid-2020? It’s being suggested the NSW numbers are being posted on this app (but no one has it anymore). i can’t be bothered downloading it to check... but if there is anyone on here that still has that app on their phone... maybe they can confirm or deny this?
 
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stop trolling.
Stop being selective. Not my fault is your mantra. The government let him down. Perhaps English isn’t his first language? If yes then probably another government failure for not publishing info in his native tongue.