Coronavirus | PUNT ROAD END | Richmond Tigers Forum
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Coronavirus

The Pfizer advice from the AMA is based on the following: 3.1 clotting events per 100K for under 50's, 2.7/100K for 50-60, 1.5/100K for 60-80. Hence ATAGI decreed Pfizer preferred for u60's as that is where they deem the "acceptable" cutoff is, given the decreased frequency of blood clots with AZ after 60. But it's a sliding scale and you could still suffer clotting if you're over 60.
for clarity what I meant by boundary conditions in my previous post is what these odds are being compared against for the AMA to give their advice. And my view is that they are comparing against now and not against the future, but my disappointment is that this isn’t made clear.
 
Queensland heaping lead in the Nations saddlebag again.

Paluzcech and her CHO seriously muddying the waters on vaccination,

by politicing and running with the rheoric

'I dont want 18 yo's to die from vaccines in queensland'

and misquoting medical advice.

he may have *smile* up the execution, but I'm with Morrison on this one,

give whatever brand vaccine we have, to everyone.
 
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Queensland heaping lead in the Nations saddlebag again.

Paluzcech and her CHO seriously muddying the waters on vaccination,

by politicing and running with the rheoric

'I dont want 18 yo's to die from vaccines in queensland'

and misquoting medical advice.

he may have *smile* up the execution, but I'm with Morrison on this one,

give whatever brand vaccine we have, to everyone.
Morrison's Gov is responsible for the mixed messaging. One minute AZ's only ok for over 50's, nek minute only over 60s, then everyone? Without any consultation with national cabinet, their CHO's or the AMA. This from a bloke who was front of the queue for Pfizer. The fish rots from the head.
 
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Morrison's Gov is responsible for the mixed messaging. One minute AZ's only ok for over 50's, nek minute only over 60s, then everyone? Without any consultation with national cabinet, their CHO's or the AMA. This from a bloke who was front of the queue for Pfizer. The fish rots from the head.

i agree.

however, the notion of taking vaccines out of a storeroom

and injecting them into whoever want immunity

is sound and should be embraced, irrespective of past mistakes or poltics
 
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Morrison's Gov is responsible for the mixed messaging. One minute AZ's only ok for over 50's, nek minute only over 60s, then everyone? Without any consultation with national cabinet, their CHO's or the AMA. This from a bloke who was front of the queue for Pfizer. The fish rots from the head.
“Front of the queue” meant for Scotty.
 
i agree.

however, the notion of taking vaccines out of a storeroom

and injecting them into whoever want immunity

is sound and should be embraced, irrespective of past mistakes or poltics
Exactly we need pragmatism over politics.

benevolent dictatorships better than democracies but unfortunately they seem to turn into authoritarian regimes eventually. We need a way for democracy to spit out leaders who can act in long term interests of the population vs the short termism / political opportunism we see now. I think most (?) are fed up with what we have right now and see the alternate party as not offering much hope either. Topic for a different thread. Sorry.
 
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Why would you take Suttons view over The QldnChO ? Both seem to be equally qualified.

Yes they are, but Brett Sutton is a familiar face to me now and I find him trustworthy. Not so much the PM.

I actually thought the QLD CHO came across as quite hysterical yesterday and wasn't helping.
 
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for clarity what I meant by boundary conditions in my previous post is what these odds are being compared against for the AMA to give their advice. And my view is that they are comparing against now and not against the future, but my disappointment is that this isn’t made clear.
I saw these numbers too and for plus 70 and 80 the rate was nearer 1.8 and 1.9 . Those numbers don't seem radically different to the young people's 3.1 to a layman like me.

Is there a theshold in the medical world where they draw the line ...like 2.0, 2.5, 3.0

Or as Governor-elect Young says is it a question of optics? a young person dieing from a vaccine is far more tragic and reflects negatively on the government compared to a geriatric in a nursing home suffering the same fate.
 
I saw these numbers too and for plus 70 and 80 the rate was nearer 1.8 and 1.9 . Those numbers don't seem radically different to the young people's 3.1 to a layman like me.

Is there a theshold in the medical world where they draw the line ...like 2.0, 2.5, 3.0

Or as Governor-elect Young says is it a question of optics? a young person dieing from a vaccine is far more tragic and reflects negatively on the government compared to a geriatric in a nursing home suffering the same fate.
It does get into utilitarian ethics / triage thinking.

do you value all life equally?
Do you consider how many years of life people have?
Do you judge the quality of the remaining life?

I’m in the maximise quality years camp but understand the some people find this abhorrent. Taken to extreme would you value the life of someone with one day to live equally with a one day old baby?

etc etc. you could in one view multiply the young persons number by a factor that takes into account their remaining expected life. My understanding is this is what hospitals do quite often when facing a triage situation. But it will vary widely from FIFO to lottery to age based etc
 
Queensland heaping lead in the Nations saddlebag again.

Paluzcech and her CHO seriously muddying the waters on vaccination,

by politicing and running with the rheoric

'I dont want 18 yo's to die from vaccines in queensland'

and misquoting medical advice.

he may have *smile* up the execution, but I'm with Morrison on this one,

give whatever brand vaccine we have, to everyone.
Yeah Slomo and the feds have *smile* the vaccine rollout royally but the QLDers are being recalcitrant dickheads on this. Their CMO stating that the risk of an 18 year old dying from AZ blood clot is higher than dying from COVID infection is blatantly incorrect; that is coming from Dr. Coatsworth. She said they "probably won't die from COVID". Well they probably won't die from AZ vaccine either. What's the difference? Is she also going to recommend 18 year olds stop driving cars as well? Because they have a substantially increased chance of dying in a car accident in comparison to an AZ jab.

The politicising of this issue is just absolute *smile*. The Feds have done it and now some states are making it worse. AZ is what we have at the moment. We need to vaccinate the country quickly. People should be encouraged to consult with a medical professional and understand the (very minor) risks and proceed if they are comfortable. We didn't need the PM and Feds creating mass confusion in the first place. We now certainly don't need State Premiers and CHOs creating over the top hysteria as well.
 
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I actually thought the QLD CHO came across as quite hysterical yesterday and wasn't helping.
It was a disgraceful performance by her and the Premier. It was just creating unnecessary hysteria for the sake of politicking.
 
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Some mistakes will always happen, the key is to have robust systems that will minimise mistakes and hotel quarantine is not it.
Agree (there has to be a more robust system ..edit in). I did read/heard we have had (rough) 370,000 people through the system with 26 breaches that 10 escaped into the public. That is pretty successful.

Even if we have designated quarantine system, honestly (after further thought), human error is still prevalent. Same issues could arise. Still need to transport people for example. When I heard the driver did not wear a mask, just couldnt believe the BS on that!.
 
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Some mistakes will always happen, the key is to have robust systems that will minimise mistakes and hotel quarantine is not it.
Yep, they've had plenty of time to realise HQ is not the answer and setup a longer term Q strategy. And failed. Zero leadership from scomo. To me its the single biggest failure. We only get the virus from OS, we had an opportunity to have a virus free country. Q was the most important issue and the feds appear to have not wanted a bar of it. No strategy. No leadership. It's a common theme with scomo. And clearly no strategy around vaccination. He should be embarrassed.
 
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The other night I decided to tune in to Paul Murray to get his take (dont shoot me haha).
I listened just to the facts and he actually covered something I was hoping for. That chart that showed a handful of countries and their vaxx rates and of course Aus was last. Personally thought how BS when I saw it. But enough for the media & Labor to put the boot in with it.

When I first saw it in the media, thought how its contrived to manipulate data for a purpose. Then he came up with one with 10 countries with similar population using the same data, We werent last but 2nd in comparison. We also had 66 ! countries below us on the initial chart that wasnt shown. So we werent last!

But yes, agree with the view we should have been further along but its not as bad as its made out to be.
 
Agree (there has to be a more robust system ..edit in). I did read/heard we have had (rough) 370,000 people through the system with 26 breaches that 10 escaped into the public. That is pretty successful.

Even if we have designated quarantine system, honestly (after further thought), human error is still prevalent. Same issues could arise. Still need to transport people for example. When I heard the driver did not wear a mask, just couldnt believe the BS on that!.
The problem with these stats is that they include everyone coming through the system - ie people without covid as well as with. The better metric to use is to only look at the number of breaches as a proportion of the number of people who had covid. That's a better measure of the risk from an academic viewpoint.
 
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