Coronavirus

[LeeToRainesToRoach]

Not really. Those in favour of the slow down, championing the rights not to vaccinate, celebrating the AZ fuelled delays are only doing so because it masks the Governments complete *smile* up in it's responsibility to protect the country. There is no logic, fact or science that backs a "it's not a race" vaccine program.

Who's celebrating it? Yeah they have *smile* it up, that's why they've revised the rollout, phased out AZ and released a detailed vaccination roadmap.

We're not like most other countries with land borders etc. What you're effectively advocating is vaccination against hotel quarantine *smile*-ups.

Until there's a plan and a schedule for letting tourists in, it's all moot.

 

[Tigers of Old]

Re Gladys' successes..The Delta variant is 90% more transmissible than the previous Wuhan strain. I sincerely hope it does but what strategy's worked before won't necessarily work again. She'll be responsible if it doesn't.

 

[Redford]

Re Gladys' successes..The Delta variant is 90% more transmissible than the previous Wuhan strain. I sincerely hope it does but what strategy's worked before won't necessarily work again. She'll be responsible if it doesn't.

They have pretty good contact tracing up there. Few other things they do well. Here's hoping.

Do we know their numbers today yet ?

 

[RoarEmotion]

By his own admission he's not getting vaccinated because he doesn't have too. If the gov open up the country then he'll get the jab. I'm never embarrassed when it comes to ranting against anti-vaxxers. In fact I think it's everyone's civic duty to call out anti-vaxxers for what they are, a clear and present danger to society.,

This approach is proven to not work. It might make you feel better but it is highly unlikely to change the other persons mind. Depends what your purpose is.

labelling and grouping people is a slippery slope. I dont think Lee is anti vax he is just going to do it when it (in his opinion) makes sense. I don’t agree with it unless their are other medical reasons I don’t know about but I can see why.
I do have some sympathy that we don’t know long range effects of ANY vaccine so if delayed issues pop up with az (or pfizer() in the next six months he will have that info too.

I’ll have my second Pfizer in a couple of weeks.

 

[mrposhman]

Australia let down by failure to hedge bets on enough vaccines, experts say

The nation’s peak medical body and vaccine experts say the federal government made the right call at the time to back AstraZeneca, but public health specialists warn Australia was let down by a ‘narrow’ immunisation strategy.

www.theage.com.au

This is the key for me, not that they've made AZ off limits for some people.

Everyone knew vaccines were exploratory at the point of signing contracts so logic tells you that sharing the load across multiple providers would be the most appropriate response, but our government was so focused on owning the IP that they focused all our attention essentially on 1 vaccine which has lead us to the position that we are in.

Had they done the right thing and bought Pfizer, maybe some Moderna etc and spread the risk across multiple vaccine providers then we would have been at a much lower risk of our vaccine programme slowing down at this time and potentially coming to a complete halt.

This lack of risk mitigation in the completely unnecessary push for IP ownership is what puts us in the situation we are currently in.

 

[LeeToRainesToRoach]

By his own admission he's not getting vaccinated because he doesn't have too.

Yeah. And if you weren't automatically hostile to everything I post you'd be capable of seeing the sense in it.

Knowledge advances with time, e.g. as mentioned above they're finding improved effectiveness by mix-n-matching the first and second dose brands. Why shouldn't I take advantage of any new insights before I get the jab if it's not affecting anyone else?

 

[IanG]

I thought that last week. Then Barnaby Joyce became Deputy PM.

And has now been appointed to the Cabinet Taskforce on the status of Women. Its mind boggling.

 

[DavidSSS]

And has now been appointed to the Cabinet Taskforce on the status of Women. Its mind boggling.

Which might explain the hatchet job done on the front page of the Fairfax media (The Age at least) to the NT LNP Senator. Strange how being allegedly (and she denies it) drunk in parliament was all over the front page when we all know plenty of pollies have turned up drunk in the chamber.

DS

 

[Al Bundy]

Sure, if you exclude the fact that international travel into Australia by tourists, students and business people is important for the economy. The faster we vax, the faster we can open up.

Thats why I said disagree to a degree.
Its a reset globally by many countries in dealing with this virus escaping from China.
Build a base to work on, (agree with u) vax as the path out , have said it before too but dont destroy what we have first like in Vic that is affecting the country.

Also States & Feds have to all publicly be on board and all say it publicly in their states on how vaxed people will be treated. Not just the Feds, then States deny it later. Announcement by all State leaders with Feds in unison. Won't hold my breath on that on though. Make it a positive & and benefit of getting vaxed.

 

[Ian4]

remember how people lost their sh.it over woolworths Epping?

 

[Wildride]

Confusion over the exact number of new cases in NSW, but certainly >15 new cases announced overnight. They've announced a lockdown in 4 LGAs for the next week, plus for all those who've worked in the CBD over the past fortnight.

 

[Al Bundy]

Wrong. The UK only has 47% fully vaccinated. 65% is inclusive of only a first dose - which isn't sufficient protection.

One dose only gives about a 33% protection rate to the new dominating Delta variant which isn't good enough and hence why they have an extended lockdown until they get two jabs into everyone. After that, Johnson says he'll lift the restrictions i.e. hate to break it to you Lee but whilst it isn't a complete panacea it's the major arterial highway out of this mess.

But hey, I get you're happy to take the fire trail route. Or it could just be you're no more than a Slo Mo fanboi looking for any ridiculous excuse for this unmitigated disaster.

I havent followed the % of other countries. has the Uk stated what the target % is?? for what they call herd immunity.

Curious what the % are in some other countries and how successful they are in how the public can get back to normal as it use to be

 

[Redford]

22 new cases in NSW ? Is that right ?

 

[Sintiger]

UK has 80% of the population vaccinated with a single shot so far. Pfizer and AZ are only ~30% effective against Delta after 1 shot, but in the 90%s after 2 shots of the vaccine. Effective in this case is determined by the need for hospitalisation if the virus is contracted.

The UK knows it's a race to vaccinate. The difference there is the bulk of the media are all in lockstep and pushing the message that vaccination is the only way out of the lockdowns. Because it is. Everyone with a smidgen of common sense knows vaccination is the only answer.

I heard that the highest % vaccination of any country in the world is the Seychelles at 70% and they have just had another spike, in infections not deaths and hospitalisations so far.

 

[Wildride]

22 new cases in NSW ? Is that right ?

Looks like it, 5 included in today's numbers and 17 for tomorrow. 19 of those linked but not all in isolation, 3 under investigation but likely to be linked.

They're worried about the hair salon where 3 staff worked while infectious last week, with ~900 clients having passed through.

 

[Ian4]

2 cases in VIC (from NSW)
11 cases in NSW (including the 6 already announced yesterday, plus another 17 so far for tomorrows numbers).
2 cases in QLD.

4 LGA's in inner sydney being locked down. I believe that puts NSW at close to 70 active cases.

 

[MD Jazz]

Hands up who knows people who haven't hesitated to bag the Victorian government at every turn but haven't made a peep about the treacle-slow vaccine roll-out.

I'm happy to bag both for their incompetency.

 

[AngryAnt]

Be good if we could stick to facts here and get away from name calling.

the realist in me says that whether or not people get AZ it will make little difference now to when we get full vaccination coverage given the governments actions and that this is independent of any individuals decision . I think this is crap and the lack of speed in our rollout is damning. Critical path should be delivery capacity and not supply. The lack of a plan for how we exit lockdown that is communicated (subject to change) is also annoying.

everyone’s health circumstances are different. I don’t know Lee’s personal risks for AZ and haven’t seen anyone ask - just judge. I always refer back to one of coveys seven rules - ‘seek to understand before being understood’. If we found out his risk of death was material I think everyone would be a bit embarrassed with their rants.

in general I find AZ hesitancy distasteful as for a typical person the risk of blood clot has the same number of morts as driving 400 in your car. I think the government has put together some good visuals that show in the event of an outbreak how many would die from covid va would die from AZ depending on the severity of the outbreak.

https://www.health.gov.au/sites/default/files/documents/2021/06/covid-19-vaccination-weighing-up-the-potential-benefits-against-risk-of-harm-from-covid-19-vaccine-astrazeneca_1.pdf

so the pragmatist / realist in me says that the risk of dying from covid is low as our government will manage that until everyone has a chance to get vaccinated. Give. Because of this I can see why some people will reject AZ on an emotional level vs a pure numbers level. The purist in me says that is a decision that prioritises the individual (generally) ahead of the community as it will prolong the rollout time (I’m guessing by two to three months.) which imposes its own costs on society.

if a significant number of people chose not to get vaccinated at all then shame on us as a society for not helping people understand it is in their own and societies best interest

Good post Roar, but as I've said many times before, what Lee chooses to do as an individual is up to him. I don't care about that, his choice.

Covey says seek to understand - yes, I have sought to understand Lee's position. It's not hard to understand. He doesn't want to criticise the federal government and so twists every argument to that end. He's flipped from "we must defend the economy at all costs against selfish expats returning" to "we are a wealthy country, we can afford to wait, vaccination is a low priority". Again, his choice, but we can criticise that position.

So back to the policy debate here - why have the Feds botched the acquisition of Pfizer, why have they been painfully slow in rolling out AZ and other vaccines, why are they missing their own targets repeatedly. This is critical for our health and wellbeing as a society and an economy. Where is the "roadmap" that Lee insists we must have before anything meaningful can be done.

You say shame on us for not helping people understanding - experts have been saying for months a national campaign would help this, but the Feds are more interested in muddying the waters and obfuscating targets so they look less inept. Shame on them, my friend.

 

[AngryAnt]

Who's celebrating it? Yeah they have *smile* it up, that's why they've revised the rollout, phased out AZ and released a detailed vaccination roadmap.

We're not like most other countries with land borders etc. What you're effectively advocating is vaccination against hotel quarantine *smile*-ups.

Until there's a plan and a schedule for letting tourists in, it's all moot.

Here we go, the ridiculous "we can't do anything unless there is a plan" argument. It's the Feds role to create that plan. Where is it?

Vaccination is not just a strategy against "quarantine *smile*-ups" and you know it. It's a strategy for reopening our borders, for opening up tourism, for travelling overseas for business and to see dying relatives, for reopening education, for getting the economy kickstarted again.

 

[LeeToRainesToRoach]

Here we go, the ridiculous "we can't do anything unless there is a plan". It's the Feds role to create that plan. Where is it?

Exactly the question people should be asking.

They have fobbed the public off with "mid-2022" and that seems to have worked. That's what my vaccination decisions are based on, until I hear otherwise.