Coronavirus

[AngryAnt]

But the health commissioner claims the decision was made on medical advice. Police logistics isn't medical advice.

It would make sense to circumvent the legal action by letting the public in on the secret advice.

This is an ongoing confusion/conflation. Doctors and epidemiologists aren't policy makers or population control experts. The medical advice is "we've found the virus is frequently transmitted where larger groups of people gather inside a house for a few hours, like when these idiots insist on throwing parties at night". It's then up to the government/police to come up with legislation and tactics to prevent these gatherings from happening.

So it's a policy or tactic created by the appropriate people in response to medical advice.

 

[Ridley]

No, it ain't. It's speculation, with no evidence. It's like Trump's "lots of people are saying". As has been mentioned Somuryek's thesis runs counter to actual evidence given at the inquiry anyway.

Are you assuming that the evidence given by ministers and senior bureaucrats (most of which was I can’t remember, I don’t recall and I don’t know) at the inquiry was accurate and true?

I hold zero regard for Somuyrek but I also have a similar amount of regard for those ministers and bureaucrats. IMO they lied through their teeth and employed lawyers and QCs (at a cost of tens of thousands of dollars per day to the Victorian electorate) to help them do so.

A disgrace.

 

[LeeToRainesToRoach]

No, it ain't. It's speculation, with no evidence. It's like Trump's "lots of people are saying". As has been mentioned Somuryek's thesis runs counter to actual evidence given at the inquiry anyway.

I'll rewrite it for you.

"It's common knowledge that Dan gave the order. I've been told why but since I'd have a hard time proving it to legal satisfaction, I'm not going to write anything actionable."

Exactly the same.

 

[AngryAnt]

Are you assuming that the evidence given by ministers and senior bureaucrats (most of which was I can’t remember, I don’t recall and I don’t know) at the inquiry was accurate and true?

I hold zero regard for Somuyrek but I also have a similar amount of regard for those ministers and bureaucrats. IMO they lied through their teeth and employed lawyers and QCs (at a cost of tens of thousands of dollars per day to the Victorian electorate) to help them do so.

A disgrace.

Unless you are telling me they all got together beforehand to coordinate their lies I don't buy that they lied.

I do buy that some have had convenient "memory lapses". That's different from getting them all in a room and concocting coordinated lies to protect Dan.

On the issue of QCs and legal representation, that's the way the world is mate.

 

[Althom]

Unless you are telling me they all got together beforehand to coordinate their lies I don't buy that they lied.

I do buy that some have had convenient "memory lapses". That's different from getting them all in a room and concocting coordinated lies to protect Dan.

On the issue of QCs and legal representation, that's the way the world is mate.

SOME have had convenient memory lapses??????
Make that MOST of them and the fact is you don't need much time to concoct a story along the lines of "Just say you don't recall"

 

[AngryAnt]

I'll rewrite it for you.

"It's common knowledge that Dan gave the order."

I'll rewrite it for you. "People are saying that Joe Biden takes performance enhancing drugs". D. Trump.

Exactly the same tactic.

If someone is prepared to come out and says "Andrews gave the order in this email or this meeting or in a conversation with this person" I might start taking this nonsense more seriously. In the meantime it's your usual anti-Andrews fantasyland waffle, motivated by your personal dislike of the man.

Any update on the sensible people considering the terrorism route? Has Dan left Melbourne and hid in a bunker yet as per your considered advice?

 

[AngryAnt]

SOME have had convenient memory lapses??????
Make that MOST of them and the fact is you don't need much time to concoct a story along the lines of "Just say you don't recall"

I haven't watched any of the inquiry - maybe you can tell me which ones resorted to this tactic, and in response to what questions. That matters.

 

[Althom]

I haven't watched any of the inquiry - maybe you can tell me which ones resorted to this tactic, and in response to what questions. That matters.

If every single newspaper and news service in the country are lying then I guess you may be right.

 

[LeeToRainesToRoach]

Any update on the sensible people considering the terrorism route?

Refresh my memory on the sensible people thing.

Has Dan left Melbourne and hid in a bunker yet as per your considered advice?

It's kinda like the advice sometimes offered to surfers - if you don't want to get eaten, stay out of the shark's territory. Dan might yet be hit by a white pointer.

 

[Ridley]

Unless you are telling me they all got together beforehand to coordinate their lies I don't buy that they lied.

I do buy that some have had convenient "memory lapses". That's different from getting them all in a room and concocting coordinated lies to protect Dan.

On the issue of QCs and legal representation, that's the way the world is mate.

I never said they concocted the lies as a collective. They just lied to cover their own arses and their incompetence. They knew they *smile* it completely and they are all doing everything they can to avoid any portion of blame. That includes blatant lying and the sudden onset of amnesia. And they would all happily throw someone else under a bus to save themselves.

They have treated the Victorian electorate with contempt and all the while 800 people are dead. Disgraceful behaviour.

 

[AngryAnt]

If every single newspaper and news service in the country are lying then I guess you may be right.

so who in particular used the "i can't recall" excuse and to what questions? Should be easy to tell me given all the papers carried it.

 

[AngryAnt]

I never said they concocted the lies as a collective. They just lied to cover their own arses and their incompetence. They knew they *smile* it completely and they are all doing everything they can to avoid any portion of blame. That includes blatant lying and the sudden onset of amnesia. And they would all happily throw someone else under a bus to save themselves.

sounds like a lot of generalisations to me. "they all lied, they all would throw each other under a bus, they are all avoiding blame". I doubt they are all are doing all these things.

 

[Ridley]

sounds like a lot of generalisations to me. "they all lied, they all would throw each other under a bus, they are all avoiding blame". I doubt they are all are doing all these things.

Really? So none of these politicians and bureaucrats that “earn” hundreds of thousands of dollars each every year, paid by the taxpayer, had any idea of what was going on? Or they couldn’t remember what was going on? Come on Ant. If I didn’t know better I’d think you were saying that politicians and bureaucrats don’t lie. But I’m pretty sure you’re a lot smarter than that.

Either they are incompetent, ignorant or lying. In some cases it’d be all three.

 

[AngryAnt]

Really? So none of these politicians and bureaucrats that “earn” hundreds of thousands of dollars each every year, paid by the taxpayer, had any idea of what was going on? Or they couldn’t remember what was going on? Come on Ant. If I didn’t know better I’d think you were saying that politicians and bureaucrats don’t lie. But I’m pretty sure you’re a lot smarter than that.

Either they are incompetent, ignorant or lying. In some cases it’d be all three.

Of course, but they don't lie all the time. They are not ignorant of everything. Most of them are highly competent most of the time, otherwise they wouldn't be there.

It's the simplistic generalisation that I don't buy. Sure some of them lied. Some were incompetent, or at least made mistakes. The inquiry has uncovered a lot of that.

 

[IanG]

On the impact of super spreaders:

Largest study of COVID-19 transmission highlights essential role of super-spreaders

A study of 660,000 Indians finds that a few individuals spread most new infections and that children transmit the coronavirus just as well as adults.

www.latimes.com

 

[IanG]

The curfew's legality is being challenged by a lawsuit against the state. It's controversial.

By an aspiring LNP politician.

 

[MB78]

Really? So none of these politicians and bureaucrats that “earn” hundreds of thousands of dollars each every year, paid by the taxpayer, had any idea of what was going on? Or they couldn’t remember what was going on? Come on Ant. If I didn’t know better I’d think you were saying that politicians and bureaucrats don’t lie. But I’m pretty sure you’re a lot smarter than that.

Either they are incompetent, ignorant or lying. In some cases it’d be all three.

Most likely all three. And with powerful leader you will find that they are all too busy up managing in a fear factory environment, too scared to step out of line to protect themselves.

 

[22nd Man]

I can tsee that case fizzling out. There was clearly a need for the curfew and most people had no problems with it.

It's a court case not an opinion poll. But I think the curfew was the least crap decision of Andrews though it has given him a good guide to what he can get away with.

 

[22nd Man]

Unless you are telling me they all got together beforehand to coordinate their lies I don't buy that they lied.

I do buy that some have had convenient "memory lapses". That's different from getting them all in a room and concocting coordinated lies to protect Dan.

On the issue of QCs and legal representation, that's the way the world is mate.

The conga line of fools looked a lot like collusion but as you say the the way the world works is that the QCs individually counsel,their clients to play dumb.

 

[DavidSSS]

I really don't get the legal challenge on the curfew.

Lee, you keep saying that the government will need to justify the curfew in court case, nothing could be further from the truth.

Justified or not, the only way you could challenge the curfew would be to challenge it on the basis that the government did not have the legal power to impose a curfew. Nothing to do with whether it was justified or not. I reckon the State Government would have no trouble with the claim they have the legal power to impose a curfew.

DS