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IMPORTANT // Please look after your loved ones, yourself and be kind to others. If you are feeling that the world is too hard to handle there is always help - I implore you not to hesitate in contacting one of these wonderful organisations Lifeline and Beyond Blue ... and I'm sure reaching out to our PRE community we will find a way to help. T.
Coronavirus
- Thread starter Tigers of Old
- Start date
Apparently the Cedar Meats outbreak was handled perfectly though
has anyone claimed that it was? Can't recall that being said anywhere.
I recall the Premier and the Health Minister at the time were reported as saying all protocols were followed to the letter and not much else could have been done.
That said it was a while ago and my memory is not perfect so may not have got that completely right. That's my recollection though.
No worries Rids, and what they said may be true. This is an insidious virus that hides in outwardly healthy people, and certain occupations and situations are high risk. The Security firm debacle is a clear case of major eff-up, on that I agree 100%.
This is the new normal.
Terrible for Melbourne people.
the Dalia Lama said once,
if you get struck with an arrow, dont worry about where the arrow came from.
now I'm sure you see the flaw in that,
there could be a bloke there about to bury another arrow in you, and if you see him, you could duck?
But Its the best bit of fridge magnet wisdom I could think of for all you facing another tough 6 weeks.
I think in this instance, I mean, try not get angry about why your in lockdown, and just get through it. day by day.
The venerable Dimma put it more simply, only worry about what you can control.
I hope the tigers can win the next 6 on the trot for you.
the Dalia Lama said once,
if you get struck with an arrow, dont worry about where the arrow came from.
now I'm sure you see the flaw in that,
there could be a bloke there about to bury another arrow in you, and if you see him, you could duck?
But Its the best bit of fridge magnet wisdom I could think of for all you facing another tough 6 weeks.
I think in this instance, I mean, try not get angry about why your in lockdown, and just get through it. day by day.
The venerable Dimma put it more simply, only worry about what you can control.
I hope the tigers can win the next 6 on the trot for you.
I don't know what your issue is.
I never said schools have been the main driver of transmission. If you look at what I actually posted it was this.
Scomo has been over simplifying/misleading about schools from the beginning.
In his first messaging, he actually said closing schools would make the spread of the virus worse.
We started to get a handle on it once school holidays started.
Forget that there's a thousand plus kids at a lot of city schools. You could even forget that there's a hundred plus staff members (not just teachers - ES staff are normally forgotten in all this).
One of the big benefits to having schools closed is the reduction in all the subsequent travel. Parents dropping kids off, kids on public transport, high school kids travelling far and wide during lunch times/free periods/after school etc.
Plus there's the big one: attitude. As soon as schools open, there'll be a lot of 'Well if I can be around a thousand people at school, surely I can hang out with my ten mates afterwards.' And it'll be hard to argue with that.
So I guess the question is, when can we open them. One of the best things I heard from our federal government is that they're trying to get the infrastructure in place to test, trace and target isolate. As soon as that happens, then you're in a much better position to be opening up.
If we could target test every single person in a school community (kids/staff/carers) then we should be able to open up. If that seems impossible, then that tells you just how many people there are in a school community that could spread it if we open up too soon.
I think we are (optimistically) also potentially in a position to eradicate the community spread of this virus. If we open up prematurely, that's off the table.
Side note: As I microbiologist, I don't want schools open yet. As a teacher, I can't *smile* wait. Teaching online sucks. 5 - 6 hours of zoom every weekday, nearly double the amount of parent communication, prep time has nearly tripled to the point that I'm now working 7 days a week, and marking/monitoring is a nightmare. Plus, I know some kids are slipping through the cracks, and it's a horrible feeling.
Also, there is no English word for the feeling of trying to video conference 26 year seven students while they each struggle to type in a password to an online textbook, and you're simultaneously being a maths teacher, tech support, lion tamer and emotional support.
Maybe 'Frustpointlesshausting'.
If teachers are saying schools shouldn't be open, it's not because they think that's the easier option.
That was before we relaxed restrictions by the way. I suggested the issue wouldn't be transmission at schools, but the associated community interactions with opening them.
I've also suggested that social distancing is impossible in schools, from my experience, below:
Teachers split on merits of Victoria's return-to-school plan
Teachers are divided on the merits of returning to school but hope a month of remote learning will trigger a shift towards more online teaching in Victoria.www.google.com
"" There will be a whole range of protocols so we don’t have adults mingling, we don’t have parents mingling. There will be staggered drop-offs, there will be staggered breaks for play, for lunch," Mr Andrews said.
Teachers and staff will socially distance and there will be increased cleaning, with an extra $45 million in funding."
This has to be one of the most out of touch things I've read during this period.
Staggering lunchbreaks is essentially impossible without constructing a new timetable. By the way, constructing a timetable that caters for thousands of students and hundreds of teachers, all of whom have unique combinations of classes is a massive undertaking that usually takes the best part of a term to do. It is logistically impossible to do.
Also it is pretty hilarious to say we will be social distancing. Unless someone's come up with a way of accessing extra dimensions, we will not be social distancing.
Over the last few years, I've taught classes in storage rooms, had to teach science in the library (sometimes while sharing the space with another class), while others have taught classes in the canteen.
Only last year, we had to split a classroom in two to create enough room for a staff room, where 5 people sit in about 8 or 9 square metres.
My staff room is about the size of your average living room and has 6 teachers in it. The only way we're social distancing is if we sit on the roof. And no matter what we do, we will be crammed up close and personal with students.
I understand arguments for getting schools back open. But don't *smile* us about what's going to happen.
No there hasn't been significant transmission in schools. I've never said there was. Yes schools are being closed because of coronavirus concerns, even though this spike is happening during the school holidays.
I think what you're really upset about is that you were agitating for restrictions to be eased, I pointed out it was too early, and here we are.
Neither of our opinions, informed or otherwise, had any bearing on the current situation, but you've been wrong a lot. And I think you're very upset about it.
Sage words ezy but I gotta tell you I am angry. *smile* angry
.As a country we all got behind the process to contain this virus and we just about had it licked. I was very pleased with how our federal and state governments all responded. The National Cabinet was a great success. Sure there were some major issues particularly in NSW with Ruby Princess and Newmarch House and they can not be forgotten. I've never been a huge fan of Dan Andrews (don't dislike him either) but I thought his initial leadership was generally first rate.
But I am really angry about the hotel quarantine disgrace (Vic Govt wears this) and for the selfish people that blatantly ignored advice and spread the virus like wildfire throughout the northern and western suburbs because they couldn't stay away from mass family gatherings. One woman who was interviewed even said "Oh, we thought it was over!" *smile* off that is just *smile*!
I feel for the vast majority of people in this great state; I really do. But now I need to take a deep breath and acknowledge that there are so many people worse off than I am. Those innocent people who have done the right thing and have still been severely impacted, whether it be physically, mentally or financially, by the spread of this virus through no fault of their own. These silent victims are the ones that I'm thinking of. Wishing them all the very best.
You may be correct that Daniel Andrews bowed to the pressure, ( i would say more so to public opinion and own economical pressure than anything the Prime Minister said), I think Dan was revelling in dancing to the beat of his own drum.
In reality it may not have mattered considering some of our protocols were seriously flawed.
Sydney, our closest comparison in population density, were reporting similar numbers when restrictions were eased but seemingly have things under control for now at least.
If only we could go back in time and right the wrongs but we are where we are, stuffed!.
The restrictions easing is not the reason we are here no matter how often you say it is. Gov't failure is the main cause. Cedar meats -- fail. Hotel quarantine - fail - end result massive (relatively speaking) spike in cases. Cause - not restrictions easing, not bunnings shoppers, not schools opening, not golf or fishing. NSW started well behind VIC but for some reason have managed it better - is that down to luck? Schools opened earlier, larger family groups were allowed earlier, the list goes on.
And, it is very easy to argue against easing when you are on the gov't payroll getting paid regardless. Spare a thought for the businesses and young suffering. And now suffering further simply because of gov't failure. Perhaps some ambulance chasing lawyer firm could organise a class action against our incompetent gov't.
I could care less about my ego, get plenty wrong if you read these boards enough.
I think part of NSW advantage was that they had an outbreak scare so early in the piece. The Ruby Princess was a real wake up call for NSW and put the public there on higher alert. Victorians got ahead of thenselves and thought they had already done the hard yards.
Definitely agree with this. Reckon many Victorians dropped the ball on how serious this is, including those security guards working at the quarantine hotels. It was almost as if Victorians felt as if this was over. Clearly it isn’t. I just hope we can get the genie back in the bottle but the community transmissions may make it very difficult now. That’s the real concern..
if it makes you feel better, anecdotally NSW have relaxed BiG TIME too.
I drove through Byron (Australias smallest city) at 9pm last Thursday night,
and it could have been NYE 1999.
no *smile*.
I dont think its Melbourne misbehaviour.
I think it's 1. big dense city and 2. bad luck
I think its extremely counter productive and unhealthy and unrealistic for mebournians to feel like leapers or feel like their fellow citizens dropped the ball.
remember '#we are all in this together',?
we all live on a pretty small ball
Would happily bet on Adelaide winning the flag this year ahead of another state not having a lapse/second wave within the next month. Would be very surprised if it doesn't happen.
I don't go along with the view that the government is totally at fault for the hotel quarantine screwup. Yes some protocols should have been better around PPE and secondary jobs, however some of what we now know security guards did is plain common sense and we shouldn't have to set protocols over. Quarantine is pretty clear what it is, no protocols should have to state that you shouldn't root the quarantined, thats logic. It shouldn't have had to state that they shouldn't share cigarettes / lighters etc, again this is common sense. The security guards are complete dumbasses clearly.
BTW I'm not a labour voter.
BTW I'm not a labour voter.
So you're trying to say that this rapid increase of community transmission had nothing to do with eased restrictions? Nothing to do with large family groups gathering? Nothing to do with perceptions about the danger having passed?
I'm assuming you're also going to say then that going back into lockdown is a waste of time? Clearly, if it has no impact on transmission?
