Coronavirus | PUNT ROAD END | Richmond Tigers Forum
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Coronavirus

MD Jazz said:
Agree. And Dan is busy writing letters.

note to self, never ever ever ever question Dan.
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The Health Dept is not perfect MDJ. I think that they are doing a pretty decent job and Prof Sutton has been hugely impressive, a view I know that is held by many in the sector.
However they will make mistakes as will the politicians, the premier included, but I have far more trust in him than I do in the State Health Minister. Managing these clusters is very difficult but we have to understand that they will happen for a long time, especially when things open up.
I have never been a great fan of Andrews but to me he deserves praise for the job he has done, so far. Unfortunately for the Liberal Party he stacks up incredibly well against Michael O'Brien who imo is acting like a complete pillock.
Of course you are right we should question Dan like we question all politicians but we also have to recognise that these people are working in an environment that is completely new to all of them and the job they are doing hugely difficult. The actual work on the ground around the virus clusters is done by the public health people in the bureaucracy and the pollies have to trust them to get it right, or as right as they can.
 
Sintiger said:
Of course you are right we should question Dan like we question all politicians but we also have to recognise that these people are working in an environment that is completely new to all of them and the job they are doing hugely difficult. The actual work on the ground around the virus clusters is done by the public health people in the bureaucracy and the pollies have to trust them to get it right, or as right as they can.
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Nice one. The observation is one set of criteria is used to judge scomo and one for Dan.
 
Another 2.5K deaths in the US and they are re-opening. Not sure how this can work for them
 
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Tigers of Old said:
Is it possible to be angry about a workplace outbreak but also scream for isolation rules to be relaxed?
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Who is angry about a workplace outbreak? Just interested it appears different criteria is used to judge the response depending on the party involved. And really it shouldn't be surprising that political bias is accentuated in these situations.
I read the Dan Andrews response about how infectious it is and how difficult it is to manage. Yes, all correct. But did they investigate the initial case properly? Read the below comments from Dr Sutton. If it turns out they did not contact this guys workplace back at start of April (surely that is a matter of course to confirm his response that he was not there) what would that tell you about the investigation?

We can only go on what we're told," Victoria’s Chief Health Officer Brett Sutton told radio station 3AW on Wednesday morning, adding he wasn’t aware if the abattoir was asked about the worker's attendance.
"If you or I get diagnosed with COVID and say we normally go to Flinders Street Station on Friday but haven’t been there for the last month, we wouldn’t put that down as a site of exposure."
Professor Sutton said he did not believe the worker diagnosed in early April was the source of the second and third cases. He said Cedar Meats may never have been informed about the initial infection because the worker said he had not been to work.
"I have been told that that early case wasn't part of the cluster – wasn't on site," he said. "We'll really struggle to understand who introduced it and when."

BTW I think it is poor that the opposition labelled this a Ruby Princess. It should be all about could/should things have been done differently and if yes that changes are made to future case investigations.
 
MD Jazz said:
Nice one. The observation is one set of criteria is used to judge scomo and one for Dan.
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Talk about jumping to a conclusion. I responded to a comment you made about Dan , nothing to do with the PM
I’ve already said elsewhere that I reckon both have done a decent job. Not sure why I need to keep repeating it
 
Sintiger said:
Talk about jumping to a conclusion. I responded to a comment you made about Dan , nothing to do with the PM
I’ve already said elsewhere that I reckon both have done a decent job. Not sure why I need to keep repeating it
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I should have separated the lines. I meant nice one in regards to your reply it was appreciated.

The next sentence was not directed at you, apologies in inferred that way.
 
Coburgtiger said:
Stay the **** home.
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agree burger.

Im sticking with the old rules a bit longer.

Im making hay while semi-hermits are brave Aussie heroes.

As an aside, if this is hardship*, I dont see it as that hard.

sure I'm not broke, mortgaged to the hilt, haven't lost my job, my elderly relatives are healthy.

but give me this over a war, decades of despotic rule or famine any day of the week.

* expecting some proper, 1930's/40s style hardship ahead. A mix of post boom economic depression, climate changed environmental volatility, and war. expect the worst, hope for the best.
 
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KnightersRevenge said:
Dr. Judy Mikovits PhD, for your consideration:


Snopes has had a look at the good Dr.


Vaccine Scientist Jailed

Here's a bit of the conclusion:

"Therefore, Mikovits’ speculative claims linking her research to vaccine science, drawing the ire of “Big Pharma” and the “Deep State”, and her subsequent arrest are not rooted in science or reality. But although she may have lost the support of the scientific community, she appears to have found a new home in the pseudoscientific conspiracy world."
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It's certainly interesting how different people/agencies have different perceptions and conclusions even in the scientific world. It would be so very easy to just accept the mainstream voices without question and yet as we are finding now in the midst of the covid19 situation all countries and their states/territories have different outlooks, protocols, agendas, and policing. There appears to be no 'one size fits all' as more and more questions are raised by a wide variety of people across all fields both medical and scientific along with those in the economic areas before we even start on any political agendas. Every individual will have their own questions, their own truths, their own curiosities and that in turn will mean some will search much deeper for the knowledge before the answers are revealed.

www.prnewswire.com

"Plague of Corruption" by Dr. Judy Mikovits and Kent Heckenlively, with a foreword by Robert F. Kennedy Jr., released by Skyhorse Publishing, Inc.

/PRNewswire/ -- Dr. Judy Mikovits is a modern-day Rosalind Franklin, a brilliant researcher shaking up the old boys' club of science with her groundbreaking...
www.prnewswire.com www.prnewswire.com

Robert F. Kennedy Jr. concludes his foreword to Plague of Corruption with, "This account by Judy Mikovits and Kent Heckenlively is vitally important both to the health of our children and the vitality of our democracy. My father believed moral courage to be the rarest species of bravery. Rarer even than the physical courage of soldiers in battle or great intelligence. He thought it the one vital quality required to salvage the world. If we are to continue to enjoy democracy and protect our children from the forces that seek to commoditize humanity, then we need courageous scientists like Judy Mikovits who are willing to speak truth to power, even at terrible personal cost."

PRAISE FOR PLAGUE OF CORRUPTION

"One of the main problems of our time is the public loss of confidence in the scientific community because of a too often corrupt coalition of governmental and corporate entities. Judy Mikovits's and Kent Heckenlively's book delves into the midst of this rampant corruption, which hides from the public scientific truths which might go against these corporate economic interests."
—Dr. Luc Montagnier, 2008 Nobel Laureate for the isolation of the HIV retrovirus

"What this book teaches you more than anything else is that science is a dangerous game. The notion that science is precise and unambiguous is wrong. When there is doubt, there is the potential for powerful interested parties to make life miserable for a scientist with integrity. Throughout the book, intrigue is seamlessly intertwined with fascinating revelations about the still poorly understood science behind the potential role of retroviruses in mysterious debilitating diseases like chronic fatigue syndrome and autism."
—Dr. Stephanie Seneff, Senior Research Scientist, MIT Computer Science and Artificial Intelligence Laboratory


 
amc11 said:
Robert F. Kennedy Jr. concludes his foreword to Plague of Corruption with, "This account by Judy Mikovits and Kent Heckenlively is vitally important both to the health of our children and the vitality of our democracy. My father believed moral courage to be the rarest species of bravery. Rarer even than the physical courage of soldiers in battle or great intelligence. He thought it the one vital quality required to salvage the world. If we are to continue to enjoy democracy and protect our children from the forces that seek to commoditize humanity, then we need courageous scientists like Judy Mikovits who are willing to speak truth to power, even at terrible personal cost."
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RFKjr the antivaxxer who went to Samoa in June last year to spruik his message to the Samoans. The result, over 50 dead infants in a measles outbreak.

arstechnica.com

Measles outbreak spurred by anti-vaxxers shuts down Samoan government

Of the 53 dead, 48 are children aged 4 and younger.
arstechnica.com arstechnica.com

That's moral courage for you.
 
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Anit-Vaxxers, the *smile* both the left and right want to see dead.
 
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amc11 said:
It's certainly interesting how different people/agencies have different perceptions and conclusions even in the scientific world. It would be so very easy to just accept the mainstream voices without question and yet as we are finding now in the midst of the covid19 situation all countries and their states/territories have different outlooks, protocols, agendas, and policing. There appears to be no 'one size fits all' as more and more questions are raised by a wide variety of people across all fields both medical and scientific along with those in the economic areas before we even start on any political agendas. Every individual will have their own questions, their own truths, their own curiosities and that in turn will mean some will search much deeper for the knowledge before the answers are revealed.
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Unfortunately in the batshit world of habitual conspiracy theory followers "deeper knowledge" is usually neither. It isn't deep and it isn't knowledge. It is possible to understand that not all sources are created equal. You need to learn to vet the incoming information for accuracy and consistency. RFK Jr is a known anti-vaxxer but he also has no expertise so there is no reason to consider his opinion as especially noteworthy. The good Dr. Mikovits isn't reliable due to very poor judgment and practices . When good scientists are found to be wrong, they put their hand up and use the opportunity to re-direct their research. They don't cry conspiracy.

As I have said before I find "convergence" a better word than the more common "consensus". The latter sounds like a bunch of pointy heads sit in a room and decide on a message for the media. The former is what is happening with the data and usually leads to consensus. The data is converging on an answer. Many different and crucially, independent labs and researchers are seeing the same or similar outcomes. This is what is really meant by consensus. That some are stood outside the circle saying their results don't conform to those seen by the majority doesn't mean that they are wrong. But what happens when to process is followed properly, is that they publish the unvarnished facts and data so that all those others have the opportunity to independently attempt to recreate the conditions and see if they can produce the result of the outlier. When this consistently fails it become less and less likely that the outlier is on to something. It's almost never a conspiracy.
 
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This Cedar meats thing gets worse and worse.
www.theage.com.au

Labour hire firm told of COVID-19 outbreak days before Cedar Meats

The revelation raises further questions over the state government’s handling of the abattoir outbreak, which is Victoria’s biggest coronavirus cluster.
www.theage.com.au www.theage.com.au
Had the government named and shamed them on 2 April, they could have tested all workers and shut up shop. Sounds like a cess pit at this abattoir, WorkSafe investigations, RSPCA investigations. Shocking.
 
KnightersRevenge said:
Unfortunately in the batshit world of habitual conspiracy theory followers "deeper knowledge" is usually neither. It isn't deep and it isn't knowledge. It is possible to understand that not all sources are created equal. You need to learn to vet the incoming information for accuracy and consistency. RFK Jr is a known anti-vaxxer but he also has no expertise so there is no reason to consider his opinion as especially noteworthy. The good Dr. Mikovits isn't reliable due to very poor judgment and practices . When good scientists are found to be wrong, they put their hand up and use the opportunity to re-direct their research. They don't cry conspiracy.

As I have said before I find "convergence" a better word than the more common "consensus". The latter sounds like a bunch of pointy heads sit in a room and decide on a message for the media. The former is what is happening with the data and usually leads to consensus. The data is converging on an answer. Many different and crucially, independent labs and researchers are seeing the same or similar outcomes. This is what is really meant by consensus. That some are stood outside the circle saying their results don't conform to those seen by the majority doesn't mean that they are wrong. But what happens when to process is followed properly, is that they publish the unvarnished facts and data so that all those others have the opportunity to independently attempt to recreate the conditions and see if they can produce the result of the outlier. When this consistently fails it become less and less likely that the outlier is on to something. It's almost never a conspiracy.
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You know you're talking mega *smile* when you're removed from Facebook
 
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