Ben Cousins a Tiger (Merged)

[Tigers of Old]

Re: Ben Cousins a tiger?

I'm sorry but I have to laugh at all the flack Ricky Nixon is copping over this sorry saga.

For goodness sakes, Ben Cousin's is a grown man. When are people going to make him accountable for the decisions HE has made?

I am sick to the eyeballs for everyone making excuses for this guy just because he was a formerly great footballer.

 

[Chiang Mai Tiger]

Re: Ben Cousins a tiger?

Wasnt it that pr!ck Nixon who was Wayne Carey's manager and made a complete Dunderklumpen of himself trying to make Carey out as the victim in the Stevens scandal?

 

[Freezer]

Re: Ben Cousins a tiger?

KB and Jon Ralph adamant on SEN this morning that Cousins will not be a Tiger under any circumstance.

 

[Redford]

Re: Ben Cousins a tiger?

Ben Cu zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz ins.

 

[Dyer Disciple]

Re: Ben Cousins a tiger?

I'm sorry but I have to laugh at all the flack Ricky Nixon is copping over this sorry saga.

For goodness sakes, Ben Cousin's is a grown man. When are people going to make him accountable for the decisions HE has made?

I am sick to the eyeballs for everyone making excuses for this guy just because he was a formerly great footballer.

Couldn't agree more ToO.

Though I'm not joining in with you at laughing at Nixon.

I understand your coming from a different angle, and I agree utterly with you, but isolating Nixon's performance and duty as a Player Manager...he has been dreadful.

I'm sure Ricky knows his stuff behind the scenes, but his usage of the media and lack of professionalism is woeful.

To me it's just one more example of Cousins making a wrong decision of who he surrounds himself with.

.............

As far as ending the delusion of coming to RFC, couldn't agree more. I'll be so glad once we get through the PSD.

There has been and will be, no chance of Cousins coming to the club if we are making the smart decisions we want the club to for prolonged success.

Anyone doubting this needs to ask why 15 other clubs agree. No one will pick him up.

Just because I like to throw some curve balls out, here's everyone's scary thought for the day... >

The Cousins circus might not be over after the PSD. When you nominate for the National Draft, you nominate for 2 years!

:rofl :rofl :rofl

 

[Tigers of Old]

Re: Ben Cousins a tiger?

Though I'm not joining in with you at laughing at Nixon.

I understand your coming from a different angle, and I agree utterly with you, but isolating Nixon's performance and duty as a Player Manager...he has been dreadful.

I'm sure Ricky knows his stuff behind the scenes, but his usage of the media and lack of professionalism is woeful.

To me it's just one more example of Cousins making a wrong decision of who he surrounds himself with.

Not really my point DD, Nixon may well be a ruthless scumbag but he manages a heap of players in the AFL without any issues whatsoever.

My point is Ricky can't nursemaid all of his clients, all of the time.
Ben Cousins is old enough and experienced enough to largely make his own decisions.
For example Nixon can't be following Cuz down to the local salon and he can't grow his hair back for him either.

Nixon is just another in a long line of people that some want to blame for the situation BC has created for himself.

 

[Dyer Disciple]

Re: Ben Cousins a tiger?

Not really my point DD, Nixon may well be a ruthless scumbag but he manages a heap of players in the AFL without any issues whatsoever.

My point is Ricky can't nursemaid all of his clients, all of the time.
Ben Cousins is old enough and experienced enough to largely make his own decisions.
For example Nixon can't be following Cuz down to the local salon and he can't grow his hair back for him either.

Nixon is just another in a long line of people that some want to blame for the situation BC has created for himself.

I understood it wasn't your point, I even mentioned you coming at it from a different angle...

I also agree with you, Cousins only has himself to blame for where he is at.

My point however is, while I agree with you, there is no question Nixon has handled this badly. How many times is this guy going to get excused himself?

Nixon is good at what he does fundamentally and knows his stuff, but he has handled this atrociously.

Nixon is no saint ToO and your not quite right about his history, he has plenty of history in the media.

Hell he is the only Player Manager I know who got sacked by a client for getting on air pissed and bagging his client.

I realise your focussing on Cousins, but I wouldn't be given Nixon a pass either, that's all I am saying.

 

[Tigers of Old]

Re: Ben Cousins a tiger?

I realise your focussing on Cousins, but I wouldn't be given Nixon a pass either, that's all I am saying.

Understood and fair enough.
Without really being behind the scenes though it's hard to say.
Benny's renowned cockiness may well have been reflected through his manager. Nixon may just have played it out the way Ben wanted it and was probably thinking it would be easy to find him a home at a good price to boot.
I get the feeling that once cleared by the AFL to play, that they both thought that it would be a walk in the park on their terms and it's blown up in their face due to a few very poor decisions.
If in all likelihood Cousin's doesn't get picked up at all I wouldn't be surprised if there's some legal action to follow from the Cousins/Nixon team but it's going to be a tough ask for them to win.

 

[johnson2richo2003]

Re: Ben Cousins a tiger?

A few older footballers who changed clubs did help lift their second club considerably - more recently Judd, Dew and over the years Healy Ottens the list does go on.

Not quite good examples there RT.
Judd still has 5yrs left in him
Dew geez he plays one good game and all of a sudden it was a gamble that paid off.Spare me.If we got Cousins and he only played one good game in that year we,d all be calling it a failure.
Healy still had many run in his legs when he moved to Sydney
Ottens.How old was Otto when he went to the cats? 25ish?

 

[Dyer Disciple]

Re: Ben Cousins a tiger?

Understood and fair enough.
Without really being behind the scenes though it's hard to say.
Benny's renowned cockiness may well have been reflected through his manager. Nixon may just have played it out the way Ben wanted it and was probably thinking it would be easy to find him a home at a good price to boot.
I get the feeling that once cleared by the AFL to play, that they both thought that it would be a walk in the park on their terms and it's blown up in their face due to a few very poor decisions.
If in all likelihood Cousin's doesn't get picked up at all I wouldn't be surprised if there's some legal action to follow from the Cousins/Nixon team but it's going to be a tough ask for them to win.

Agree on all accounts with you. I have no doubt Cousins would be a VERY difficult client to represent, how far that goes, we can't tell from the outside. His circumstances and history is bad enough, but based on how he has gone about things, I suspect his not the "you tell me how to best handle this and I'll do it" type when it comes to advisors.

If I'm right, then that makes it a tough gig in fairness to Nixon. However there comes a point where you have to cash out on dollar or reputation value potential and say, well if I can't do my job I can't represent you. If Nixon has had little influence on Cousins he shouldn't be representing him.

I've dealt with a fair few trouble athletes and you have to be able to sum up their talent against their character and make a decision no matter how much potential they have, for themselves or to make you a dollar/name.

Comes back to the old, "You can't help someone who doesn't want to help themself".

 

[Dyer Disciple]

Re: Ben Cousins a tiger?

Dew geez he plays one good game and all of a sudden it was a gamble that paid off.Spare me.If we got Cousins and he only played one good game in that year we,d all be calling it a failure.

Not if that one good game was in a premiership and he won it for us we wouldn't. ;D

Agree with your post, just being mischevious, though i do think your undervaluing Dew's return slightly.

They are all certainly bad examples though Remote Tiger, the issue about Cousins is not about his football ability like it was those players you mentioned.

The issue is first and foremost about his personal demons and secondly his age. Very different.

 

[Tiger74]

Re: Ben Cousins a tiger?

My point is Ricky can't nursemaid all of his clients, all of the time.

They do though.

Many of the managers pay their clients rent, manage utility payments and the bills, and handle the issues with their accountants and lawyers for their tax and property transfers. Some even get involved in issues like their divorce.

Players get their managers to pretty much run most aspects of their daily life from when they sign on at 18, so its not surprising they are ignorant when they hit the real world post football.

 

[Tigers of Old]

Re: Ben Cousins a tiger?

They do though.

Many of the managers pay their clients rent, manage utility payments and the bills, and handle the issues with their accountants and lawyers for their tax and property transfers. Some even get involved in issues like their divorce.

Players get their managers to pretty much run most aspects of their daily life from when they sign on at 18, so its not surprising they are ignorant when they hit the real world post football.

I am sure that's right 74 but at the end of the day how much a player chooses to let someone else run their life is their choice.
You can't simply blame a manager for a footballer's ineptitude. Players are still grown ups and individuals and the bottom line is they are responsible for their actions. They make the final call.
You'll always get the Hirds/Harveys who Nixon probably considers a dream to manage and then you'll get the Careys/Cousins who are probably a nightmare.
Blaming the manager is just another cop out for these guys doing the wrong thing.

 

[Tiger74]

Re: Ben Cousins a tiger?

I am sure that's right 74 but at the end of the day how much a player chooses to let someone else run their life is their choice.
You can't simply blame a manager for a footballer's ineptitude. Players are still grown ups and individuals and the bottom line is they are responsible for their actions. They make the final call.
You'll always get the Hirds/Harveys who Nixon probably considers a dream to manage and then you'll get the Careys/Cousins who are probably a nightmare.
Blaming the manager is just another cop out for these guys doing the wrong thing.

Part of this is the managers fault though, as they have encouraged this dependance. They don't want a player that can live without them, they want someone who's life is so linked to the management group, that leaving the group will be a personal crisis. This way their churn rate is minimized.

Some managers are great, and look after their clients as well as they possibly can. Others are the Jerry Maguire imitations, who only care about maximizing their immediate return from their "asset".

 

[Tigers of Old]

Re: Ben Cousins a tiger?

Part of this is the managers fault though, as they have encouraged this dependance. They don't want a player that can live without them, they want someone who's life is so linked to the management group, that leaving the group will be a personal crisis. This way their churn rate is minimized.

The system has created that dependence somewhat and I agree managers are a part of that. Some fault lies with them for sure.

However I still think it's ultimately a players responsibility to make the final decisions on their career and life for that matter.
if unhappy or uncertain, they can say 'no' to their managers & if they don't/can't, then it's pretty hard to blame anyone else but themselves.
Responsibility seems to be a dirty word when it comes to elite footballers like Cousins/Carey/Ablett or cricketers like Warne.
We excuse them a heck of a lot because we enjoy seeing what they do and treat them largely as kids even when they are grown men

Getting back to Cousin's though..like Nixon or not as a person, he must have done plenty right by the overwhelming majority of his clients to have lasted as long as he has in this business. Can't imagine he would have lasted as long as he has if he didn't look after most of his players very, very well.

I can't recall too many complaints about him from players apart from Carey and this is Wayne Carey we are talking about, his record as a bloke speaks for itself. Archer too may have vocally registered his disapproval of Nixon but that is probably as a direct result of the Carey incident.

The bottom line is whilst Nixon has to bear some of the blame for the way this has unfolded of the past few weeks, Ben has to wear most of it.

 

[Tiger74]

Re: Ben Cousins a tiger?

The system has created that dependence somewhat and I agree managers are a part of that. Some fault lies with them for sure.

However I still think it's ultimately a players responsibility to make the final decisions on their career and life for that matter.
if unhappy or uncertain, they can say 'no' to their managers & if they don't/can't, then it's pretty hard to blame anyone else but themselves.
Responsibility seems to be a dirty word when it comes to elite footballers like Cousins/Carey/Ablett or cricketers like Warne.
We excuse them a heck of a lot because we enjoy seeing what they do and treat them largely as kids even when they are grown men

Getting back to Cousin's though..like Nixon or not as a person, he must have done plenty right by the overwhelming majority of his clients to have lasted as long as he has in this business. Can't imagine he would have lasted as long as he has if he didn't look after most of his players very, very well.

I can't recall too many complaints about him from players apart from Carey and this is Wayne Carey we are talking about, his record as a bloke speaks for itself. Archer too may have vocally registered his disapproval of Nixon but that is probably as a direct result of the Carey incident.

The bottom line is whilst Nixon has to bear some of the blame for the way this has unfolded of the past few weeks, Ben has to wear most of it.

Don't argue with any of that, but as for why Nixon is a success, he was one of the first to get in on the gig, and has defended his turf pretty well. Also you need to remember he is competing with the likes of Peter Jess, so....... :cutelaugh

 

[gustiger12]

Re: Ben Cousins a tiger?

Comes back to the old, "You can't help someone who doesn't want to help themself".

Game over :clap

 

[benny_furs]

Re: Ben Cousins a tiger?

Game over :clap

Only if Ben doesn't want to help himself.

We don't know how he feels.

Game on :clap

 

[meltiger]

Re: Ben Cousins a tiger?

How amusing.

The way one particular poster is carrying on, you'd swear it was all Ben's fault this posters family failed one of their own.

 

[ronnit]

Re: Ben Cousins a tiger?

please explain....