Beefed-up Tigers (RFC)

[tigerlandishome]

I'm not in any clique mate. Been around a long time, but 1700 posts in over 8 years hardly qualifies me for a clique. Usually try not to offend but happy to speak my mind if I feel strongly about something. Feel free to have a shot at me and my opinion if you please, it's all a bit of fun and I enjoy a good argument.

You'll get over it.

 

[Disco08]

Lovely irony.

 

[linuscambridge]

Lovely irony.

I would agree with you but I might be accused of being in a "clique group" so in this case I strenuously disagree.

 

[tigerlandishome]

Thanks mate,

You're welcome.

 

[TigerMoz]

I have mate,

I have worked there for 11 years and I have seen how they approached the weight sessions
There are a few "senior" players that look very similar to the day they walked in the door

The kids I agree with you,they are where they should be in terms of lean mass and age

I'm waiting with anticipation to see how the new regime approach the training
The coaching staff seem happy so far

And regarding the argument of free weights versus machines,
You need predominately free weights, but you still need machines to achieve a balanced physique,

Yes the cage fighters do a variety of training methods , and it shows

Very interesting. I hope the club is on the right track in this area. It seems we have a ways to go before we reach professionalism in 'all' areas.

I did some research on Vitargo and it sounds promising although the site did mention this:

"Many of the world´s best athletes are prevented to go on record about using Vitargo. The list of Olympic Gold winners, professional football teams, tennis players, professional rugby teams and individual athletes is as long as impressive"

I wonder why they are prevented from talking about it... And you too by the looks of it... It seems bemusing.

 

[linuscambridge]

Very interesting. I hope the club is on the right track in this area. It seems we have a ways to go before we reach professionalism in 'all' areas.

I did some research on Vitargo and it sounds promising although the site did mention this:

"Many of the world´s best athletes are prevented to go on record about using Vitargo. The list of Olympic Gold winners, professional football teams, tennis players, professional rugby teams and individual athletes is as long as impressive"

I wonder why they are prevented from talking about it... And you too by the looks of it... It seems bemusing.

Only research I have seen suggests it clears from the stomach much faster than standard sports drinks but produces no increase in blood sugar or insulin compared to sports drinks. Interesting stuff but unlikely to be revolutionary on that basis.

 

[brigadiertiger]

Vickery is on the senior list, so is a senior player.

Personally, I would consider that he has just emerged from his junior phase, into his development phase from 22 to 24yo, then a mature player at 25yo.

Vlastuin is on the senior list but surely you wouldn't consider him to be a senior player.

 

[JB11]

Only research I have seen suggests it clears from the stomach much faster than standard sports drinks but produces no increase in blood sugar or insulin compared to sports drinks. Interesting stuff but unlikely to be revolutionary on that basis.
[/quote

Correct it does leave the stomach quicker and with far less bloat, leaving your body to absorb it quicker.
We did our own testing and found if we took it before training or a game , our endurance was greater, of course it varied between each individual, but across the board ,endurance was greater as was recovery
If we took it after a game or training (or weight training) recovery was far quicker

The thing to remember is its still basically a food, it's main component is barley,
It just works better than loading with maltodextrin

Even with bodybuilders, we got them bigger and fuller and way leaner using vitargo than with maltodextrin .
I know a lot of the companies claim x % faster and x% better recovery, it's mainly advertising ,
We go by real world results , I believe it's worth using that's why I suggested it to the players

 

[JB11]

My appologys, if you no longer work at the club of course there is no problem with you sharing opinions on here. I hope I didn't offend you.

Rosy, I do however stand by my opinion of any employees of the club criticizing the club that pays their wage on a public forum in an anonymous way. If the club found out it would be grounds for dismissal, it's standard HR practice and there are many precedents.

All good , and I agree with u, employees shouldn't be criticizing the club

 

[JB11]

At a guess from an outside perspective these might be Riewoldt, Vickery & Nahas?

That's some of them

 

[TigerMoz]

Correct it does leave the stomach quicker and with far less bloat, leaving your body to absorb it quicker.
We did our own testing and found if we took it before training or a game , our endurance was greater, of course it varied between each individual, but across the board ,endurance was greater as was recovery
If we took it after a game or training (or weight training) recovery was far quicker

So you did testing. Was that a club incentive or did you conduct it privately?

Does the club have a dietician? If so what is their perspective on vitargo?

I am very curious as to why the club wouldn't want you talking to the players about something that you believe they could benefit from :-\

 

[JB11]

We did it privately

The club has a dietician,

Let's just say if I corrected the boys form in the gym , I made a certain staff member uneasy,
It's cool , i stopped doing it, after all that wasn't my role at the club
I wasn't there to make trouble for him , I just wanted the boys to get it right and get the most out of their training,

I explained the benefits to a few of players and some of the staff
They did research it and even got a tub to try
As the club is sponsored by musahi they couldn't be seen using a rival brand
As far as I know they gave up trying it as it didn't mix for them
There is a certain protocol to get it to,mix or it stays at the bottom of the shaker and is a *smile* to clean

 

[Danog]

What brand of Vitargo would you recommend?

 

[JB11]

GenerR8 vitargo S2 is my choice

Get the unflavored one and drink it with your protein shake
Add half the water , shake it thoroughly , then add the rest of the water , shake it more then drink it

 

[D85]

We did it privately

The club has a dietician,

Let's just say if I corrected the boys form in the gym , I made a certain staff member uneasy,
It's cool , i stopped doing it, after all that wasn't my role at the club
I wasn't there to make trouble for him , I just wanted the boys to get it right and get the most out of their training,

I explained the benefits to a few of players and some of the staff
They did research it and even got a tub to try
As the club is sponsored by musahi they couldn't be seen using a rival brand
As far as I know they gave up trying it as it didn't mix for them
There is a certain protocol to get it to,mix or it stays at the bottom of the shaker and is a b!tch to clean

Unfortunately that's pretty common these days in the world of S&C, lots of ego and self preservation.

 

[linuscambridge]

We did it privately

The club has a dietician,

Let's just say if I corrected the boys form in the gym , I made a certain staff member uneasy,
It's cool , i stopped doing it, after all that wasn't my role at the club
I wasn't there to make trouble for him , I just wanted the boys to get it right and get the most out of their training,

I explained the benefits to a few of players and some of the staff
They did research it and even got a tub to try
As the club is sponsored by musahi they couldn't be seen using a rival brand
As far as I know they gave up trying it as it didn't mix for them
There is a certain protocol to get it to,mix or it stays at the bottom of the shaker and is a b!tch to clean

I think these days JB you don't get a head S&C job at a footy club without at the very least a Masters in your field of study and many go further and have a PHD. This has it's strengths and weaknesses, obviously the amount of study undertaken you have some very bright people running the show. However I have met very few who really have the combination of education and the experience of really hitting the weights hard. It's a pity your experience with the weights wasn't appreciated and harnessed, I have seen some pretty poor form from some pretty smart people over the years, it does however sound like the coaches had a different priority.

I think the goal these days is for all the strength to be functional, very few machines involved, and in terms of muscle mass it really is the norm for players to have as little muscle as they can get away with for their positions. You just don't want to carry around an extra 5 kilos of muscle when you are running 15 to 20 kilometers every weekend. It's a bit different for the KP guys, but even a full back wouldn't want to be carrying much extra weight if he had to chase Buddy or Nick Reiwoldt around all day.

 

[IrockZ]

I think these days JB you don't get a head S&C job at a footy club without at the very least a Masters in your field of study and many go further and have a PHD. This has it's strengths and weaknesses, obviously the amount of study undertaken you have some very bright people running the show. However I have met very few who really have the combination of education and the experience of really hitting the weights hard. It's a pity your experience with the weights wasn't appreciated and harnessed, I have seen some pretty poor form from some pretty smart people over the years, it does however sound like the coaches had a different priority.

I think the goal these days is for all the strength to be functional, very few machines involved, and in terms of muscle mass it really is the norm for players to have as little muscle as they can get away with for their positions. You just don't want to carry around an extra 5 kilos of muscle when you are running 15 to 20 kilometers every weekend. It's a bit different for the KP guys, but even a full back wouldn't want to be carrying much extra weight if he had to chase Buddy or Nick Reiwoldt around all day.

What's functional training? Using kettleballs and bosu balls? Can't remember the last time I saw any of those on a footy field. I think some of these S&C guys always try to do something different when barbell and dumbbell work will always be king for strength. If a player is injured or coming back from injury then it might have some value but I bet if I went to an Eagles, Crows, Cats training session they would be doing some serious squats, deads, and military presses it shows on their physiques.

You seem to know your stuff JB11, Vitargo is a quality product and it amazes me what you said about the people in charge not knowing about. The players are probably using some crap like Musashi Bulk instead.

 

[linuscambridge]

What's functional training? Using kettleballs and bosu balls? Can't remember the last time I saw any of those on a footy field. I think some of these S&C guys always try to do something different when barbell and dumbbell work will always be king for strength. If a player is injured or coming back from injury then it might have some value but I bet if I went to an Eagles, Crows, Cats training session they would be doing some serious squats, deads, and military presses it shows on their physiques.

You seem to know your stuff JB11, Vitargo is a quality product and it amazes me what you said about the people in charge not knowing about. The players are probably using some crap like Musashi Bulk instead.

It's just one of those buzz words Irock that means you need to train for your sport. And there is plenty functional when it comes to AFL with Olympic lifting, clean and jerk, snatch, or just good old fashioned bench press's and chin ups. Probably the most important diference from old style training is that they do many movements that involve the whole body and the core so that the players develop the ability to apply their strength from a standing position with no support. This is obviously different from a pin loaded machine where more often than not you are braced in a position that gives you support and leverage so that you don't need to use your core.

The Demons of late are doing a lot of Greco roman style wrestling as part of their conditioning, can't get more functional than that if you are a forward or a back on the AFL field.

 

[D85]

the rest of their (Dees) training habits leave a lot to be desired tho. Richmond do a bit of wrestling too at the moment, most clubs would be now that they are starting to understand it a bit more.

I think free weights are the way to go, but there is no point doing free weights if you arent going to perform the movement correctly. That is what I have seen happen, and also what JB11 saw too from I have read. The best programming in the world cant prevent players not doing it properly, this is where having a good Strength & Conditioning Coach comes into play.

Not loading up and actually taking the time to get the technique locked in is massively important. You don't add weight to faulty movement patterns.

Kettlebells are ok if done properly, but like anything, they are another handy tool to have in the belt.


Great thread this is turning out to be.

 

[linuscambridge]

the rest of their (Dees) training habits leave a lot to be desired tho. Richmond do a bit of wrestling too at the moment, most clubs would be now that they are starting to understand it a bit more.

I think free weights are the way to go, but there is no point doing free weights if you arent going to perform the movement correctly. That is what I have seen happen, and also what JB11 saw too from I have read. The best programming in the world cant prevent players not doing it properly, this is where having a good Strength & Conditioning Coach comes into play.

Not loading up and actually taking the time to get the technique locked in is massively important. You don't add weight to faulty movement patterns.

Kettlebells are ok if done properly, but like anything, they are another handy tool to have in the belt.


Great thread this is turning out to be.

Agree with that.

Demons however are doing their second season under Misson who came from the successful era at St Kilda, so they should at least be getting that right. Mind you, silk purse and sows ear come to mind.