Bachar Houli - بشار حولي,

[Harry]

People stop looking for scapegoats look at systems and why we couldn't score when we clearly dominated play ie most of the third qtr for bugger all reward.

good point. we matched them in clearances and inside 50's but got belted. physically we can match it with teams in contested play (Jackson, Martin, Deledio, Cotchin, Grigg are well developed players - so we can't use lack of size as an excuse) but our style of play and game plan is a massive concern imo. same old story unfortunately. we just don't know how to move the ball efficiently and effectively, and don't know how to run to support and spread and link up.

 

[TOT70]

I'm probably biased when I watch Houli but I reckon he has not been hard enough when he needs to be. It's a tough game and I wouldn't be putting my head and body where most of these guys do but to me the hawks were much more committed and desperate and guys like Houli & Connors (both go to ground too easy) did not match their opponents desperation and I reckon it's what we can expect to get from them time and again. If they were able to provide some hurt the other way it would be OK. Houli appears to be a very good kick so may provide some value the other way. Connors - meh.

If Jason Gram can have a good GF then I suppose soft outside players can provide value. Houli's other problem is his lack of pace, something Gram has.

If we are now starting to compare the Hawks desperation on Saturday night with ours, then there is no comparison.

I'm more concerned about the lack of run than anything else. Standing under hard balls and getting smacked into next week is an over-rated exercise and one that you never see the best players doing anyway. When was the last time you saw Judd waiting under a high ball in the hot spot while a massive pack came for him? As fans, we love to watch the guy who loves to take the hits but all it ever leads to in the end is injury and missing games, the gun players rarely put themselves in this situation.

The true courage in this game now is in the run. That's where the Hawks belted us. Our guys don't spread from the contest like the better teams do. They do occasionally, and it looks great when they do, but it doesn't always happen.

 

[GEDS1]

Harry that's it exactly - I don't know how many times I used the word effective on Sat night it was many I guarantee. The way we fought and cracked in way good and all for very little return and when the ball popped out they would whip it down the other end and score.

Is it just me or is our forward line always clogged and the opposition forward line has plenty of space - can't work that one out.

 

[Tigers of Old]

Is it just me or is our forward line always clogged and the opposition forward line has plenty of space - can't work that one out.

In the last couple of weeks I've noticed teams are playing a LMID against us largely I'm guessing to combat the 'Jack' factor.
Then they're setting up a rolling zone in the midfield which is putting pressure on our forwards whilst opening up their own forward lines.

 

[evo]

If we are now starting to compare the Hawks desperation on Saturday night with ours, then there is no comparison.

I'm more concerned about the lack of run than anything else. Standing under hard balls and getting smacked into next week is an over-rated exercise and one that you never see the best players doing anyway. When was the last time you saw Judd waiting under a high ball in the hot spot while a massive pack came for him? As fans, we love to watch the guy who loves to take the hits but all it ever leads to in the end is injury and missing games, the gun players rarely put themselves in this situation.

The true courage in this game now is in the run. That's where the Hawks belted us. Our guys don't spread from the contest like the better teams do. They do occasionally, and it looks great when they do, but it doesn't always happen.

good post.

I reckon he's a decent player. Just needs to work harder ( like most of the team)

 

[Hairydolfin]

I think he plays better at Etihad, always dry and not as far to run.

 

[Big Cat Lover]

If we are now starting to compare the Hawks desperation on Saturday night with ours, then there is no comparison.

I'm more concerned about the lack of run than anything else. Standing under hard balls and getting smacked into next week is an over-rated exercise and one that you never see the best players doing anyway. When was the last time you saw Judd waiting under a high ball in the hot spot while a massive pack came for him? As fans, we love to watch the guy who loves to take the hits but all it ever leads to in the end is injury and missing games, the gun players rarely put themselves in this situation.

The true courage in this game now is in the run. That's where the Hawks belted us. Our guys don't spread from the contest like the better teams do. They do occasionally, and it looks great when they do, but it doesn't always happen.

I'm not expecting that from Houli, he'll rarely be in that position. But I'd like him to stick his tackles and to keep his feet in the contests.

Good points on the running courage. Maybe our guys simply don't trust each others skills enough to take those running risks?

 

[yandb]

bcl you mean to say we gave our most corageous player the flick last season . Jordan mcmuffin :rofl :rofl :rofl would run all the time but that did not make him courageous, far from it in fact many of the traits of jordan can be seen in bachar.
I am just hoping that dimma can put the acid on him and he responds to the challange.

 

[shawry]

I think the expectations are too high in terms of what you and others expect from a guy into his third game at a new club in a new system.

He isn't quick, he never was advertised as so. He is a player with flaws, no doubt, but it is what he adds to the team that is what Hardwick and the coaches see benefitting us.

I saw great signs last night. He hit the contests harder I thought, and his kicking was a lot better. As he understands the running patterns and systems that we want his kicking will get even better. It's about knowing, understanding and playing your role. He is an outside spread runner that will deliver the ball with penetration to our forwards to break zones, clusters and presses. As we improve as a team so too will his role and so will he.

Not every player has to be the star, some just have to be good reliable role players. I am hoping he will develop into that. He is improving every week, I don't know what more we expect?

'
I'm with you Bob. this is how I saw it too. I thought he went hard when he had to, I thought his kicking in tough conditions was elite in my opinion. I have a feeling there is much natural bias towards this player. Very harsh by many on this thread in my opinion, though of course this is Richmond. Everyone expects everyone to be flawless, except Cotchin who seems to have more kicking errors than anyone (I am a fan before I get shouted down).

 

[Tiger_4_Life]

I think he plays better at Etihad, always dry and not as far to run.

Pity we wont be playing many games there from 2011 onwards

 

[goose]

he is what he is, an outside finsher that we need.

 

[TOT70]

I'm not expecting that from Houli, he'll rarely be in that position. But I'd like him to stick his tackles and to keep his feet in the contests.

Good points on the running courage. Maybe our guys simply don't trust each others skills enough to take those running risks?

Now you are onto something.

Collingwood, Geelong, Hawthorn. They win the ball and they run forward of it. Just watch Franklin's 4th or 5th goal on Saturday night. He was in position to leap for the mark but just ran past the pack instead to the goal-side. That's where the ball ended up, easy goal.

Do our forwards have the confidence to commit to the glide past the pack, knowing that someone else will knock it towards them? When they do, the ball turns over and they are on the useless side, watching an easy clearance. You can only be an effective cherry-picker if you know that someone will feed you.

 

[Big Cat Lover]

Now you are onto something.

Collingwood, Geelong, Hawthorn. They win the ball and they run forward of it. Just watch Franklin's 4th or 5th goal on Saturday night. He was in position to leap for the mark but just ran past the pack instead to the goal-side. That's where the ball ended up, easy goal.

Do our forwards have the confidence to commit to the glide past the pack, knowing that someone else will knock it towards them? When they do, the ball turns over and they are on the useless side, watching an easy clearance. You can only be an effective cherry-picker if you know that someone will feed you.

It was interesting listening to Malthouse before the Rich/Saints game on SEN. (no better guy to listen to talking footy IMO). He said Leigh Brown's value was that he is the most predictable footballer at collingwood. His teammates knew exactly what he was going to do at every contest.

We aren't predictable enough to each other, in part due to lack of games together, but also as Harry & Atsute are pointing out we don't seem to have a game plan other than bomb it long.

Looking at the pies individually they are not that much more talented than most other lists, but they know when and where to run and obviously have the skills to execute most of the time.

 

[TOT70]

It was interesting listening to Malthouse before the Rich/Saints game on SEN. (no better guy to listen to talking footy IMO). He said Leigh Brown's value was that he is the most predictable footballer at collingwood. His teammates knew exactly what he was going to do at every contest.

We aren't predictable enough to each other, in part due to lack of games together, but also as Harry & Atsute are pointing out we don't seem to have a game plan other than bomb it long.

Looking at the pies individually they are not that much more talented than most other lists, but they know when and where to run and obviously have the skills to execute most of the time.

That confidence to run forward of the play is generally the thing that comes last and only comes after plenty of success.

That’s why Knights failed as a coach at Essendon. He was encouraging players to run forward of the ball at every opportunity and they were being torched on the turnovers. It is also why Wallace failed at Richmond and, going back a few years, why Walls failed at Richmond.

So far, Hardwick has given the team a more defensive mindset, especially since about round 7 last year. Because they don’t put enough scoreboard pressure on, this will only take them so far. Still, it is much easier to pull out of a contest and run ahead of the ball like Franklin did when you are 10 goals up than when you are 10 goals down, or even on level terms.

Hardwick is essentially right, we need more goal-kickers.

 

[Leysy Days]

The other thing with Collingwood that we shouldnt overlook is they nearly all cover the ground very well & without exception are extremely fit.

 

[bullus_hit]

One thing that stood out for me was his ability to hit targets from 40 metres out. There was one occasion where he kicked to the corridor where we had one man loose but that player had three Hawks bearing down. The kick found it's target and within moments we were lining up for goal. Houli isn't an inside mid, he's a link man with excellent kicking skills and that's something that we've missed for years. Think back to Leon Cameron and how important he was to our 2001 campaign. Not every player on the list has the same attributes, it comes down to finding the best mix of players who are capable of maintaining possession and playing end to end football. Houli will probably end up being the best PSD pick we've had for many years and should be around when we eventually push for a top four spot.

 

[michael roach]

One thing that stood out for me was his ability to hit targets from 40 metres out. There was one occasion where he kicked to the corridor where we had one man loose but that player had three Hawks bearing down. The kick found it's target and within moments we were lining up for goal. Houli isn't an inside mid, he's a link man with excellent kicking skills and that's something that we've missed for years. Think back to Leon Cameron and how important he was to our 2001 campaign. Not every player on the list has the same attributes, it comes down to finding the best mix of players who are capable of maintaining possession and playing end to end football. Houli will probably end up being the best PSD pick we've had for many years and should be around when we eventually push for a top four spot.

I noticed that bit of play too,I think it was Deledio he picked out in that passage of play,Deledio then put the ball on one of our player's chest and we were lining up for goal.

It was so quick and simple and the perfect example of what we need more of,easy goals,or at least easy and swift entries into our forward 50.

Most of our goals are like pulling teeth.

When our players can start creating more space and getting on their own and providing options to kick to then the kicking skills of blokes like Houli and Deledio will be like gold.

At the moment their kicking skills are largely wasted because they only have contests to kick to.

 

[Tigerbob]

The other thing with Collingwood that we shouldnt overlook is they nearly all cover the ground very well & without exception are extremely fit.

Something that needs to be investigated.

Now with greater facilities, is better personnel needed to get our players to that level?

I have my doubts we have the right guys in charge in this area.

 

[Leysy Days]

What leysy wouldn't give for David Buttifant Bob. Reckon he's just about the most important man in AFL football ATM.

Everyone thats had anything to do with Collingwood speaks so highly about his involvement in Collingwoods rise.

As for us, leysy agrees. We need to be worlds best practice in this area. Hornsby is a guy that has basically come from fitness coach to be our leader of sports science. We need to be better. Leysy would like us to get a fresh set or three of experienced eyes in this vital area.

If it costs quite a few bob so be it. Developing your players right physically is one of the most important parts of football in the high paced modern game of burst running.

 

[seven]

The other thing with Collingwood that we shouldnt overlook is they nearly all cover the ground very well & without exception are extremely fit.

Plus they hardly turn over the ball, so less chasing the opposition's tail all the time.