Atheism

[Disco08]

Of course you do. The one thing that distinguishes to two sides though is that creationists have to fit the logic into your beliefs. Those of us with no religion or starting beliefs can allow our brains to find the logic naturally.

 

[jayfox]

Of course you do. The one thing that distinguishes to two sides though is that creationists have to fit the logic into your beliefs. Those of us with no religion or starting beliefs can allow our brains to find the logic naturally.

And they accuse Christians of being "holier than thou".

 

[Disco08]

If you came across something in The Bible that didn't seem logical to you, would you begin to question The Bible as The Word Of God?

BTW Jay, you might see it as holier than thou, but it is widely regarded that fundamental Christians apply bad logic or reasoning in many cases to make the evidence fit with their beliefs. This isn't just the opinion of atheists either, many liberal Christians (like the professor tigertime met) also seem to hold this to be true.

bad theology has led to bad science in the creation scientists' material interpretation of Genesis and their consequent torturing of the scientific facts to construct crazy scientific theories like the 6000 year old earth, that they believe, in genuine sincerity.

http://www.abc.net.au/rn/science/ockham/stories/s17040.htm

 

[AngryAnt]

And this is the problem. Christians want to have it both ways. "It's a matter of faith", "God is mysterious and unknowable", "God exists outside time and space" and yet they try to provide material evidence of poor quality to support their faith-based assertions. When this is challenged, or the inherent contradictions in Biblical texts are pointed out, jayfox labels us as "holier than thou".

Well yeah, our methodology and logic are much sounder than yours. If you don't like that as a criticism, improve your methodology.

 

[AngryAnt]

bad theology has led to bad science in the creation scientists' material interpretation of Genesis and their consequent torturing of the scientific facts to construct crazy scientific theories like the 6000 year old earth, that they believe, in genuine sincerity.

http://www.abc.net.au/rn/science/ockham/stories/s17040.htm

tigertime2 must be spewing he introduced this guy into the mix. He's giving us some of our best ammunition.

 

[evo]

And this is the problem. Christians want to have it both ways. "It's a matter of faith", "God is mysterious and unknowable", "God exists outside time and space" and yet they try to provide material evidence of poor quality to support their faith-based assertions. When this is challenged, or the inherent contradictions in Biblical texts are pointed out, jayfox labels us as "holier than thou".

Well yeah, our methodology and logic are much sounder than yours. If you don't like that as a criticism, improve your methodology.

Quite so.

 

[Six Pack]

is it my turn yet?

 

[Tiger74]

is it my turn yet?

Please, this place needs to sit back and relax a bit.

 

[Six Pack]

Please, this place needs to sit back and relax a bit.

yeah. :clap

no such thing as gods. gods were invented by ancient people to try and explain things they couldn't fathom and to keep the masses in order.

it's a huge conceit to think we might have a shot at life after death. Despite being higher order beings, we are the same as every living thing.

born, live die, nothing.

and there is not one skerrick of hard evidence to contradict this. not a thing. no books, no films, no pictures, no websites. just the feeling some relgious people have. and these feelings are all contradictory and often nonsensical and of course they cant all be right.

and atheists rock man! :clap

 

[Djevv]

But it's OK to ask others to break them. Thou shalt not kill only applies when it's convenient, but when there's so false idol worshiipers that need eradicating it's not that important? Didn't god also use His powers to send plagues and storms and the like to kill off a lot of people? This is an example of breaking His own rules surely?

Incorrect, the Pentateuch was an agreement between Himself and the children of Israel, and anyone else who would join them. The agreement was if you obey the rules and live right I will bless you and make you a great nation, otherwise you will be cursed and suffer all sorts of unpleasantness (Deut ch 27 & 28). So judgement of foreign peoples for sin doesn't fall under OT law. Biblically judgement often involves God intervening against heinous sin so it doesn't spread after an outcry - see Gen 18:20.

To be perfectly frank the Bible only gives hints of the rules that govern God's dealings with OT Gentiles and Satan, but you can be sure there are some.

 

[Freezer]

yeah. :clap

no such thing as gods. gods were invented by ancient people to try and explain things they couldn't fathom and to keep the masses in order.

it's a huge conceit to think we might have a shot at life after death. Despite being higher order beings, we are the same as every living thing.

born, live die, nothing.

and there is not one skerrick of hard evidence to contradict this. not a thing. no books, no films, no pictures, no websites. just the feeling some relgious people have. and these feelings are all contradictory and often nonsensical and of course they cant all be right.

and atheists rock man! :clap

But is there anything to say there's not life after death?

 

[tigertime2]

I already responded to this with no reply.

The advice was the genocide was not race related, but due to their sin.

As I mentioned already, I agree it was not about race, but I disagree it was about sin. All it was about was a whole race of people were living on the turf God wanted to give his chosen people, so they got given the green light to wipe out every man, woman, and child.

It may not be genocide motivated by race, but the outcome was genocide nonetheless.

Also it does not address my query on China. They reject everything about Jesus, and the oppress those that do. Given all these sins does this mean Christians are cool to wipe out China to build a Christian state?

No not at all, there will be a new jerusaleum, and a new Earth. It is spelt out cleary throughout the Bible. Christians do not have a right to destroy China, But God does because he is perfect in every way and he cannot sin. Read the book of Hebrews if you are open minded. Gods anger against the religious Jews for their legalism and rejection of the saviour is also spelt out. I was like you, I had similar views against God before I was converted and met the saviour, I have never experienced such love and peace as the hour I first believed.

 

[tigertime2]

But it's OK to ask others to break them. Thou shalt not kill only applies when it's convenient, but when there's so false idol worshiipers that need eradicating it's not that important? Didn't god also use His powers to send plagues and storms and the like to kill off a lot of people? This is an example of breaking His own rules surely?

So why not just make it like that from the beginning?

No not at all, man's heart is sinful and and when he says Thou shalt not kill. It actually means thou shalt not Murder. Jesus expanded on this as outlined on the link http://www.biblestudy.org/question/what-does-thou-shall-not-kill-mean.html

 

[tigertime2]

If you came across something in The Bible that didn't seem logical to you, would you begin to question The Bible as The Word Of God?

BTW Jay, you might see it as holier than thou, but it is widely regarded that fundamental Christians apply bad logic or reasoning in many cases to make the evidence fit with their beliefs. This isn't just the opinion of atheists either, many liberal Christians (like the professor tigertime met) also seem to hold this to be true.

bad theology has led to bad science in the creation scientists' material interpretation of Genesis and their consequent torturing of the scientific facts to construct crazy scientific theories like the 6000 year old earth, that they believe, in genuine sincerity.

http://www.abc.net.au/rn/science/ockham/stories/s17040.htm

Seek and ye shall find, the answer are there if you ask God to reveal spiritual truth he will answer you Disco.

Absolutely disagree with you on the Creationist, it is only the Evolutionist Propoganda that uses crazy scientific theories to say that the bible is wrong, we dont beileve in God and because we have 120 odd years of this crazy Evolution view and have infiltrated the Teaching profession, with Athiestic, Marxist educators we will defend our position becasue we dont believe in a creator and that is the truth, why do you think people are sending their children to Private schools, becasue they want their kids to believe that they are more than decendants from glob and wandering generalities.

 

[evo]

But is there anything to say there's not life after death?

It's not self-evident?

Even the phrase itself is a contradiction in terms.


It seems to me theres evidence everywhere,we observe it daily.Something dies,thats it--worm food.

Look at it this way.If you had've never heard of the idea of life after death, or a 'soul' that transmigrates from body to body,or body to eternal heaven/hell, then do you think you would've thought of it yourself.

 

[tigertime2]

I don't get that Djevv. How does God deal with sin in modern times through the sacrifice of Christ so long ago? How do you know God used to wipe out people for their love of sin but doesn't now? What basket does the recent China earthquake fall in to? Did God cause it? If so why did he want so many to die and why didn't Jesus' sacrifice earn them any brownie points?

Great question Rosy this may help that for you: http://www.christiananswers.net/gospel/gospel1.html

 

[tigertime2]

Jay you are taking this completely the wrong way. I am not arguing he was crucified, and I think we both accept the son of god bit comes down to a matter of faith.

What I am disputing is the degree of sacrifice we are discussing here. Personally I hold what Abraham was asked to do as being a much bigger sacrifice.

Abraham is a mortal, cannot "create" like God can, and at his age was assumed to have no more sons. Abraham had to take on faith that what he was doing was right, and that he and Issac would be rewarded. God did not need that faith, as he was in command of all, and would have known that Jesus would die, be resurrected, and return "home".

Satan himself, has the same argument that you do - he hates the fact that without sacrifice there is no forgiveness of SIN, The BLOOD of Jesus Christ cleansess from ALL SIN - Abrahams sacrafice was God showing him that he himself would pay the sacrifice for sin.

 

[Djevv]

yeah. :clap

no such thing as gods. gods were invented by ancient people to try and explain things they couldn't fathom and to keep the masses in order.

it's a huge conceit to think we might have a shot at life after death. Despite being higher order beings, we are the same as every living thing.

born, live die, nothing.

and there is not one skerrick of hard evidence to contradict this. not a thing. no books, no films, no pictures, no websites. just the feeling some relgious people have. and these feelings are all contradictory and often nonsensical and of course they cant all be right.

and atheists rock man! :clap

Panther, I thought you told me there was no such thing as a Fundy Atheist!

 

[tigertime2]

tigertime2 must be spewing he introduced this guy into the mix. He's giving us some of our best ammunition.

Remeber this guy was a committed skeptic and changed his view and converted to a faith in Christ. I spoke with length to him about his views and he was perplexed about a few issues and not as convinced as the article says. When someone is converted to Christ it does not mean they are perfect. I respect his views though but, but disagree with his Evolutionary views.

 

[tigertime2]

yeah. :clap

no such thing as gods. gods were invented by ancient people to try and explain things they couldn't fathom and to keep the masses in order.

it's a huge conceit to think we might have a shot at life after death. Despite being higher order beings, we are the same as every living thing.

born, live die, nothing.

and there is not one skerrick of hard evidence to contradict this. not a thing. no books, no films, no pictures, no websites. just the feeling some relgious people have. and these feelings are all contradictory and often nonsensical and of course they cant all be right.

and atheists rock man! :clap

Try the Bible - the biggest selling and distributed book of all time. I think you are conceted as howdo you prove we are a higher order of beings? I can tell you were you got that notion from - yep - Gods Word the Bible.