Atheism

[tigertime2]

It's not self-evident?

Even the phrase itself is a contradiction in terms.


It seems to me theres evidence everywhere,we observe it daily.Something dies,thats it--worm food.

Look at it this way.If you had've never heard of the idea of life after death, or a 'soul' that transmigrates from body to body,or body to eternal heaven/hell, then do you think you would've thought of it yourself.

The idea has been around since the beginning of time, Why? because it is real. I would much prefer to believe God's word than an atheist who aspires to be worm food.

 

[Tiger74]

No not at all, there will be a new jerusaleum, and a new Earth. It is spelt out cleary throughout the Bible. Christians do not have a right to destroy China, But God does because he is perfect in every way and he cannot sin. Read the book of Hebrews if you are open minded. Gods anger against the religious Jews for their legalism and rejection of the saviour is also spelt out. I was like you, I had similar views against God before I was converted and met the saviour, I have never experienced such love and peace as the hour I first believed.

Then why was the genocide at the reoccupation of Israel cool? This is actually celebrated, and it was fundamentally a bloodbath. This would be like having a party over Dafur.

 

[Tiger74]

Satan himself, has the same argument that you do - he hates the fact that without sacrifice there is no forgiveness of SIN, The BLOOD of Jesus Christ cleansess from ALL SIN - Abrahams sacrafice was God showing him that he himself would pay the sacrifice for sin.

Again you side step the actual issue.

The issue is not whether a sacrifice occured, but the relative worth of the sacrifice. Who's is greater, Abraham's or Gods, given God new his son would be resurrected and return to Heaven, while Abraham had to rely on hope and faith?

 

[tigertime2]

Again you side step the actual issue.

The issue is not whether a sacrifice occured, but the relative worth of the sacrifice. Who's is greater, Abraham's or Gods, given God new his son would be resurrected and return to Heaven, while Abraham had to rely on hope and faith?

Abraham's sacrifice was an act of faith and was at the instruction of God. Jesus is God.

 

[evo]

The idea has been around since the beginning of time, Why? because it is real.

You may not be aware but there a group of logical fallacies,this is a classic. The appeal to tradition,or ld :bs

I would much prefer to believe God's word than an atheist who aspires to be worm food.

Yes I would prefer to live for ever to...and to win tattslotto...and a couple of Richmond flags would be nice, unfortuantely wishing for those things doesn't make them true.

 

[Djevv]

Then why was the genocide at the reoccupation of Israel cool? This is actually celebrated, and it was fundamentally a bloodbath. This would be like having a party over Dafur.

I'll make the point unequivocally that what happened to the Canaanites, occupiers of the land prior to the Israelites was the Judgement of God on their nation, and nothing to do with God playing favorites:

Deut 9: 4 After the LORD your God has driven them out before you, do not say to yourself, "The LORD has brought me here to take possession of this land because of my righteousness." No, it is on account of the wickedness of these nations that the LORD is going to drive them out before you. 5 It is not because of your righteousness or your integrity that you are going in to take possession of their land; but on account of the wickedness of these nations, the LORD your God will drive them out before you, to accomplish what he swore to your fathers, to Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. 6 Understand, then, that it is not because of your righteousness that the LORD your God is giving you this good land to possess, for you are a stiff-necked people.

 

[Tiger74]

Thanks D, what wickness though, or is this just being wicked for not believing?

 

[Tiger74]

Abraham's sacrifice was an act of faith and was at the instruction of God. Jesus is God.

You side step answers better than Rudd.

We were arguing about the degree of sacrifice, I have no idea what your answer says to that question.

 

[AngryAnt]

I'll make the point unequivocally that what happened to the Canaanites, occupiers of the land prior to the Israelites was the Judgement of God on their nation, and nothing to do with God playing favorites:

Deut 9: 4 After the LORD your God has driven them out before you, do not say to yourself, "The LORD has brought me here to take possession of this land because of my righteousness." No, it is on account of the wickedness of these nations that the LORD is going to drive them out before you. 5 It is not because of your righteousness or your integrity that you are going in to take possession of their land; but on account of the wickedness of these nations, the LORD your God will drive them out before you, to accomplish what he swore to your fathers, to Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. 6 Understand, then, that it is not because of your righteousness that the LORD your God is giving you this good land to possess, for you are a stiff-necked people.

Every nation that goes to war has God on its side. Just ask George Bush, or Osama bin Laden for that matter.

If nothing else this is more evidence that the Bible is a historical political document of its own time. It tells us much more about the attitudes of the Hebrews to the indigenous populations of the lands they conquered than anything else.

 

[Djevv]

Thanks D, what wickness though, or is this just being wicked for not believing?

I found a good article on it which goes through all the 'issues' God had with the Canaanites, and all the skeptics challenges. But no, it was not because of unbelief.

 

[AngryAnt]

article

Since the accounts give so little attention to the issue and no direct explanation for the inclusion of young children in the extermination order, we are left to surmise an explanation indirectly from what information we have. I have two suggestions on this point.

First, after generations of the sort of moral degeneracy that characterized these peoples, it may be that even the smallest children were beyond civilizing. Apparently even they were abused and forced to participate in obscene conduct, such that they would have grown up psychologically and spiritually scarred-and perhaps threatened to perpetuate the cycle.

Second, the STDs and other infectious diseases that must have pervaded those cities may well have been carried by the smallest children, and if so, they may have posed a grave danger to the physical health of the Israelites. Imagine some of the nations today most ravaged by AIDS, but living more than three thousand years ago, with no access to even the most basic medical resources. It may be that infectious diseases were also ravaging the domestic animals in these cities, which would also explain why they were destroyed.

It's horrible to contemplate that things were so bad that it was actually necessary for even the youngest members of that society to be killed in order to stop the generational cycle of degeneracy and disease. But something along these lines seems likely to be the reason for God's order to leave alive nothing that breathed.

You have to be kidding me.

This is a prime example of fundamentalist Christian stupidity. It's in the Bible so we have to come up with bizarre scenarios as to why and how God's chosen people committed genocide.

 

[Disco08]

Seek and ye shall find, the answer are there if you ask God to reveal spiritual truth he will answer you Disco.

Absolutely disagree with you on the Creationist, it is only the Evolutionist Propoganda that uses crazy scientific theories to say that the bible is wrong, we dont beileve in God and because we have 120 odd years of this crazy Evolution view and have infiltrated the Teaching profession, with Athiestic, Marxist educators we will defend our position becasue we dont believe in a creator and that is the truth, why do you think people are sending their children to Private schools, becasue they want their kids to believe that they are more than decendants from glob and wandering generalities.

All schools outside of a handful of creationist ones teach evolution to their students. This is because the basically every single expert in the area (Christians included) agree that the evidence supporting it is extremely strong.

You really are kidding yourself if you think scientists come up with crazy theories just to contradict what The Bible says.

 

[Djevv]

Every nation that goes to war has God on its side. Just ask George Bush, or Osama bin Laden for that matter.

If nothing else this is more evidence that the Bible is a historical political document of its own time. It tells us much more about the attitudes of the Hebrews to the indigenous populations of the lands they conquered than anything else.

That is one of the skeptical challenges, but the passage above has God pointing out Israel's faults, which is hard to reconcile with your interp.

 

[Djevv]

You have to be kidding me.

This is a prime example of fundamentalist Christian stupidity. It's in the Bible so we have to come up with bizarre scenarios as to why and how God's chosen people committed genocide.

You do realise that many of the Canaanite's survived the invasion? Again it was a judgement, if you believe the Bible. If you don't you can make up whatever theory suits your theological perspective (or lack thereof).

 

[AngryAnt]

You do realise that many of the Canaanite's survived the invasion? Again it was a judgement, if you believe the Bible. If you don't you can make up whatever theory suits your theological perspective (or lack thereof).

So your theological perspective condones the slaughter of small children as they are depraved, have STDs and are psychologically scarred?

Do you agree with that or not? You posted the site, justify it.

 

[Six Pack]

how come every catholic i know uses artificial birth control techniques?

 

[AngryAnt]

That is one of the skeptical challenges, but the passage above has God pointing out Israel's faults, which is hard to reconcile with your interp.

Not at all. No nation claims to be perfect, but every nation claims to have God on their side in times of war. It's an easy message to sell - hey guys, you ain't perfect and need improvement, but we'll wipe out these other guys over there because they are incredibly sinful down to the last man, woman, and child. Oh, and it's ok, because it's a "judgement of God".

 

[Six Pack]

I think you are conceted as howdo you prove we are a higher order of beings?

ok we aint then. we are the same as carrots and fleas and daffodils.

i can accept that. and they are born they live and die. then there is nothing

 

[Djevv]

Not at all. No nation claims to be perfect, but every nation claims to have God on their side in times of war. It's an easy message to sell - hey guys, you ain't perfect and need improvement, but we'll wipe out these other guys over there because they are incredibly sinful down to the last man, woman, and child. Oh, and it's ok, because it's a "judgement of God".

Why would a nation record all it's faults when engaging in historical revisionism? Why not simply boast about your military prowess like other nations are recorded to have done?

Do you realise that your atheistic presuppositions are driving the way you answer these questions?

 

[Djevv]

So your theological perspective condones the slaughter of small children as they are depraved, have STDs and are psychologically scarred?

Do you agree with that or not? You posted the site, justify it.

I love loaded questions, I guess if I didn't I wouldn't be here . I think that particular section of the article was poorly done and comes across as a rationalisation - so I actually agree with your point here.

I think it is very hard to put ourselves in the shoes of an ancient people and very easy to be judgemental. After all we are so advanced we have invented political correctness!

This is why the invasion was justified in my Christian POV:
It was God's judgement. God hates sin and is uncompromising about that. Who are human beings to question God?
The sins of this people were horrific, and liable to quicky spread into the culture of the Israelites who were supposed to represent a Holy God (this actually happened if you read the rest of the OT).
It was kill or be killed for the Israelites. Their nationhood and very survival was on the line.
The actual people were not really all that bloodthirsty, and if it was meant to be a genocide, they botched the job completely.
God judged the Israelites during this time as well (read the story of Achan)
It is very rare in the Bible for God to wipe out a people like that in judgement using the nation of Israel - the only other example is the Amlekites. Generally the Pentateuch emplores the Israelites to treat 'the stranger in your midst' with respect and compassion.