Alex Rance

[Rosy]

How about some of the more loved players get analysed to the 9th degree rather than just the whipping boys. I'd say Alex has improved more than most of our players this season. He's gone from being on the fringe to slotting a regular spot. He's far from the perfect player. He's certainly not alone there. I don't think we have a player anywhere near it on a consistant basis. I hope all of our players keep improving like Alex has, including Alex. We can't ask much more.

:gotigers

 

[Juffaricho]

I just hate the way Rance tries to cuddle the KPF every time a high ball comes in. I'm not talking about the ones where the pack is constantly moving in one direction, I'm talking about where the ball comes in high and he has 2 options, take the 3 steps and cuddle the guy and then try to spoil from a body on body position or stay off him, pause for a second and then take 3 big steps and jump into the KPF's back and use him as a launching pad and punch the crap out of it. That's what Grimes was doing beautifully and any decent KPD does when the opportunity arises. It just makes no sense to initiate body contact from behind when you have the opportunity to stay off the guy and launch and punch. All he does is give away his leaping advantage and makes it more likely to give away a free kick for holding (cos' he is very average using his body in a 1-on-1 marking contest) or hitting the arms.

Until, I see that type of composure from him I'll keep preferring him to play on the mid sized guys as a 3rd tall defender and being the cover for the KPD's. I think he can be very effective at that role.

 

[TOT70]

I actually think that Rance is our most improved player after Nahas, who is surely close to the most improved in the League. NAhas started from a lot further back at he start of the season though.

Rance is showing that he can become a dashing full back who will work hard to bring the ball to ground and then run off his man and try to set play up the ground. The coaching staff are clearly encouraging this and he his doing well in one-on-ones where he works hard to at least halve the aerial contest and then use his pace to scoot clear.

He still has his moments, with the occasional missed target lke the one that really hurt him on Saturday night and his overhead marking is still poor. His spoiling technique is vastly improved over last year though.

Let's just remember that he is a 30 game player who is still learning the game and will make more than his fair share of mistakes for a couple more years yet. In my opinion, he is capable of taking his place as one of our top 2 defenders in time.

In his last four weeks he has played the two best games of his career against Freo and Essendon and two average games against the Bulldogs and PA. Let's see what he is like when he gets past 50 games in a year or so.

I also think that he missed Grimes last week. The two of them had developed a good understanding deep in defence and not replacing Grimes with a similar player left Rance without much support. It also gave PA an opportunity to exploit mismatches by moving Robbie Gray into a key forward role and releasing Westhoff to play on Batchelor, where he caused a lot of trouble in the second half.

This wouldn't have been so bad with Grimes in the team. They should play Gourdis in Grimes' role for a couple of weeks to see if a similar understanding can be developed.

 

[Scoop]

So.

The vast majority are taken as easy uncontested marks that have no bearing on your overhead ability regardless of position. (Key forwards being the exception).

You certainly love throwing a stat out there & this is simply a poor one to show your point.

He has some ability of course. His spoiling has improved markedly with still a lot of work to be done with his body on body spoiling.

His overhead marking is still weak point in his game though no doubt.

Agree. Chip kicks in the back half are easy marks. And to be honest, Rance's overhead skills don't need to improve for him to be a good footballer.

 

[TigerMasochist]

Still got a niggling feeling that Rancealot needs his looknpeepers tested. He doesn't seem to have any major problem but perhaps just seems to miss focus a smidgin.
Big Bad Barry had his done while still at Sydney after starting to struggle judging his marks and I'm pretty sure there was another young player had his eyes upgraded over preseason or at the start of this year with a sizeable improvement in ability to properly judge the ball in flight.

 

[Disco08]

So.

The vast majority are taken as easy uncontested marks that have no bearing on your overhead ability regardless of position. (Key forwards being the exception).

You certainly love throwing a stat out there & this is simply a poor one to show your point.

I don't dispute the fact he takes a lot of uncontested marks. I just think the fact he rates in the top 10 must mean he's taking a few simple ones above his head (to me overhead ability includes uncontested marks taken above the head) and not just taking chest mark after chest mark. This was an area he did struggle in previously so I think it's an improvement worth noting when countering an assertion that Rance has almost no overhead ability.

He has some ability of course. His spoiling has improved markedly with still a lot of work to be done with his body on body spoiling.

I wasn't trying to say he was Richo. Thanks for dragging it out to the nth degree though.

 

[Leysy Days]

I don't dispute the fact he takes a lot of uncontested marks. I just think the fact he rates in the top 10 must mean he's taking a few simple ones above his head (to me overhead ability includes uncontested marks taken above the head) and not just taking chest mark after chest mark. This was an area he did struggle in previously so I think it's an improvement worth noting when countering an assertion that Rance has almost no overhead ability.

Your thinking too literally about it Disco. Taking an overhead mark whilst standing on your own is something every player can do 99/100. The average guy off the street thats played just a smidgen of footy can catch the ball overhead regularly when kicked to him on his own not moving. Doesnt make them good overhead marks.

Have a look at a lot of those guys listed in the leading mark category most are either outside midfielder/flankers or defenders. Exactly the type where a bit of ring a rosy is played.

Think about it in a football sense. Overhead ability is being able to take an mark overhead under pressure. Whether that be one-on-one, on a lead or in a pack.

Anyone can take them playing kick to kick which a lot on your list are known for.

If you wanted to use Rance's marking tally to show his hard running to make position for his teammates it would make more sense.

I wasn't trying to say he was Richo. Thanks for dragging it out to the nth degree though.

Jesus, you asked leysy about his overhead ability & he gave his opinion where its at. Far easier not to bother if it gets smart arse replies.

 

[Disco08]

Your response to the question shows we don't even disagree. If you kept in mind the statement I was disagreeing with you might not have found my posting so disagreeable.

Your thinking too literally about it Disco. Taking an overhead mark whilst standing on your own is something every player can do 99/100. The average guy off the street thats played just a smidgen of footy can catch the ball overhead regularly when kicked to him on his own not moving. Doesnt make them good overhead marks.

Have a look at a lot of those guys listed in the leading mark category most are either outside midfielder/flankers or defenders. Exactly the type where a bit of ring a rosy is played.

Think about it in a football sense. Overhead ability is being able to take an mark overhead under pressure. Whether that be one-on-one, on a lead or in a pack.

Anyone can take them playing kick to kick which a lot on your list are known for.

If you wanted to use Rance's marking tally to show his hard running to make position for his teammates it would make more sense.

Fine. So given he almost always tries to spoil when he's in a contested situation (as he should) and we both agree his spoiling has "improved markedly" WTF are we actually arguing about? If you read the discussion closely you'd even see that ICE asserted Rance only takes chest marks, hence my use of these stats in the first place.

 

[Tony Braxton-Hicks]

I also think that he missed Grimes last week. The two of them had developed a good understanding deep in defence

The understanding they have is that if Rance is in a one-on-one contest then Grimes will leave his man and spoil.

 

[jackfrost]

I can see this smilie gettin' a run any second now !!!

:dummyspit

 

[Punxsutawney Phil]

The understanding they have is that if Rance is in a one-on-one contest then Grimes will leave his man and spoil.

:hihi As long as Grimes arrives prior to Rance giving away the free kick, then it works well.

 

[Leysy Days]

Your response to the question shows we don't even disagree. If you kept in mind the statement I was disagreeing with you might not have found my posting so disagreeable.


Fine. So given he almost always tries to spoil when he's in a contested situation (as he should) and we both agree his spoiling has "improved markedly" WTF are we actually arguing about? If you read the discussion closely you'd even see that ICE asserted Rance only takes chest marks, hence my use of these stats in the first place.

Didnt think we were arguing. Leysy was simply pointing out some incorrect reasoning in your assertions.

On the highlighted. That will be the big challenge for Alex. To beat his opponent & take the mark rather than spoil. He's pre-programmed to spoil a lot of the time at the moment. Even when he has the better position on his man.

Have heard the coach say thats what he's instructing them, which is fair enough at this stage of his career. But the good fullbacks take marks on their opponent or teammates opponent regularly. Its obviously better for the team to have this in your armour. Hopefully he develops this ability.

 

[Brodders17]

:hihi As long as Grimes arrives prior to Rance giving away the free kick, then it works well.

as long as grimes doesnt just take rance out of the contest leaving an easy goal for rance's opponent as happened a couple of times against the roos.

 

[johnson2richo2003]

The understanding they have is that if Rance is in a one-on-one contest then Grimes will leave his man and spoil.

Thats all well and good for now.Won,t take clubs long to drag Grimes[or whoever] up feild and leaving Rance one on one.

 

[Disco08]

as long as grimes doesnt just take rance out of the contest leaving an easy goal for rance's opponent as happened a couple of times against the roos.

Yeah I was going to say that too brodders. Grimey and McGuane took him out together a couple of times IIRC.

Didnt think we were arguing. Leysy was simply pointing out some incorrect reasoning in your assertions.

On the highlighted. That will be the big challenge for Alex. To beat his opponent & take the mark rather than spoil. He's pre-programmed to spoil a lot of the time at the moment. Even when he has the better position on his man.

Have heard the coach say thats what he's instructing them, which is fair enough at this stage of his career. But the good fullbacks take marks on their opponent or teammates opponent regularly. Its obviously better for the team to have this in your armour. Hopefully he develops this ability.

Yeah, I've heard him say that too a couple of times. No problem with it either while we're still fairly clearly in development mode.

Disagree that all good fullback have to mark it in contests though. Fletcher, Glass and Scarlett are 3 great examples of fullbacks who take bugger all contested marks.

On my incorrect reasoning, it was only incorrect if you took it out of context mate.

 

[Brodders17]

Yeah I was going to say that too brodders. Grimey and McGuane took him out together a couple of times IIRC.

no, not mcguane, just grimes.

 

[Leysy Days]

Disagree that all good fullback have to mark it in contests though. Fletcher, Glass and Scarlett are 3 great examples of fullbacks who take bugger all contested marks.

Things arent always black & white with stats telling the full story.

Contested marks seem to be "marked" on a very strict criteria. Often not more than a handful for each team in a game.

However we are talking about taking marks on your opponent. If they all counted as contested marks there would be far more recorded.

Regardless of what stats you may throw up Scarlett is excellent at beating his opponent to take a clean mark & far ahead of Rance (as you would expect). Though from what you throw up you seem to disagree with that...

On my incorrect reasoning, it was only incorrect if you took it out of context mate.

The only context leysy had was simply that using total marks as any example of a players overhead ability is false.

 

[Disco08]

No, the context you had was where I repeatedly said it was to refute the fact Rance had no overhead ability and only took chest marks, like I pointed out. Not surprising though as now you're telling me I think Rance is better than Scarlett.

Not sure about judging contested marks either. I'd imagine there's marks in a contest and marks not in a contest which should be fairly straight forward most of the time. I'd say Scarlett takes quite a few uncontested because he reads the play so well. Doesn't really change the fact that he spoils the vast majority of the times when in a contest.

 

[Crumpet_Avenger]

not a KPP. will be better when these areas are strengthened. I know we got conca, but maybe missed the boat with watson?

 

[Aegean Tiger]

No one can deny there has been massive improvement from young Alex this yr. Let's hope the trend continues. For some strange reason i think it will!