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Acceptance - we are now a middling side
- Thread starter Carter
- Start date
The question is do we have the balance right?
Last year we finished AFL 10th in points against, but we were AFL 1 in points for.
So far this year we are AFL 17 in points against but 14 in points for.
Is our defensive structure the factor that is hurting our forward efficiency? I think we need to find a better balance between defence and attack.
Why would you think that personnel won’t change as the season goes on? That’s what I meant by saying we have the pieces to the puzzle we just haven’t put it together yet. I agree that we are currently one paced, but I also know that this will not be the side that we are selecting in the second half of the season. The same thing happened last year and the year before that and the year before that and the year before that
Agree but think he has to get it in hand earlier. Top 4 is a must. Even in 2017 top 4 wasn’t sealed until we beat Saints in the last round.
Same with 2019 and 2020. Cuts it fine! Last year we missed
There is a difference between the notion of ‘we’ll build into the season’ and ‘we need personnel changes to improve’
This year is slightly different for me in that we have decorated players potentially holding us back.
Right now, the major culprits here are Grimes, Nankervis and Riewoldt.
A watch also on Graham, Vlastuin and Cotchin against the Dogs.
You were hard on Nank last year Carts, and again this season.
Toby Nankervis
2023 Statistical Rankings | |||
| ● Ranked 3rd in Hitouts Per Game | ● Ranked 6th in Stoppage Clearances Per Game | ||
| ● Ranked 6th in Tackles Per Game | ● Ranked 10th in AFL Fantasy Score Per Game | ||
| ● Ranked 10th in Supercoach Score Per Game | ● Ranked 20th in Clearances Per Game | ||
| ● Ranked 3rd in Total Hitouts | ● Ranked 5th in Total Stoppage Clearances | ||
| ● Ranked 5th in Total Tackles | ● Ranked 7th in Total Supercoach Score | ||
| ● Ranked 8th in Total AFL Fantasy Score | ● Ranked 18th in Total Clearances |
Toby Nankervis of the Richmond Tigers Player Profile and AFL Stats
Toby Nankervis of the Richmond Tigers profile and AFL statistics.
www.footywire.com
So what’s middling? We’re no longer contending? I think we’re a contender still. So not middling just yet.
But the list soon will be. Take out Cotch, Jack and Dusty and what does the list look like? Some good players, a fair plug of grunts and some that have the potential to get to Lambert level (but unknown at this stage). No real genius. Maybe Bolton – but he hasn’t been asked to lead from the front. Hasn’t been the MAN yet.
What did those lists look like that won the flags? The right mix of good players, grunts and genius. We’re going to be lacking genius. But right now? We’ve still got some genius – but it’ll be seen as wisdom soon enough – its grey whiskered destiny.
But the list soon will be. Take out Cotch, Jack and Dusty and what does the list look like? Some good players, a fair plug of grunts and some that have the potential to get to Lambert level (but unknown at this stage). No real genius. Maybe Bolton – but he hasn’t been asked to lead from the front. Hasn’t been the MAN yet.
What did those lists look like that won the flags? The right mix of good players, grunts and genius. We’re going to be lacking genius. But right now? We’ve still got some genius – but it’ll be seen as wisdom soon enough – its grey whiskered destiny.
It's Phoney Season. We're 1-1-1.
We drew with Carlton on the back of a 59/44 (IIRC) I50 massacre. They are fully a final 8 side. We dispatched Adelaide, a hot side, as you will have noticed after their outclassing Port. And we were able to salvage a 14pt margin after Collingwood (AFL 1/2 ATM) destroyed us for I50 59/40 after we thrashed them at clearance.
We are well underdone. Our 18 in flux. Talent coming through and lots of it. And the formguide says as at R3 a middle of the eight side.
We're in April now. After three more phoney rounds the good sides will start to settle their line-ups, fitness and gameplans and phases. We'll be one of them.
We drew with Carlton on the back of a 59/44 (IIRC) I50 massacre. They are fully a final 8 side. We dispatched Adelaide, a hot side, as you will have noticed after their outclassing Port. And we were able to salvage a 14pt margin after Collingwood (AFL 1/2 ATM) destroyed us for I50 59/40 after we thrashed them at clearance.
We are well underdone. Our 18 in flux. Talent coming through and lots of it. And the formguide says as at R3 a middle of the eight side.
We're in April now. After three more phoney rounds the good sides will start to settle their line-ups, fitness and gameplans and phases. We'll be one of them.
Nank needs to improve his clearance rate.
Who's ahead of him? Neale and Steele and Laird? Lightweights.
3rd in hitouts? In other words its 16th last !
Lift!
100% its our fwd structure.
Last year we had 2 of MJR/George /Aarts.
This year so far we've had 2 and both used in a defensive manner.MRJ & Mansell.While the number is the same its the manner their been used thats different.
Amongst the trees we have 2 players with not a defensive bone in their bodies Dusty & Bolton.
First thing i'd do is play Bolton as a Mid/fwd not a fwd/mid.Gives us more flair in the middle.ATM we're too one paced,Which in turn helps the fwd line with the offense/defense structure.
Think the balance is right this week.One defensive(Mansell) One attacking(Clarke).
I don’t think Bolton is anywhere near a problem as he has the ability to win his share of loose ball , playing lynch dusty and jack/Ryan slows us down if they arent catching it , structure. needs tweaking , this week looks much better , see how it goes
Think Bolton gets bored up fwd.Let him loose Dimma.
I like this week as it shows what the future looks like mixed with a few Champs,
And yet how many of us were confident when we went forward in those close games.
If we get 4 points, yes, its inspired.
If we dont, its incompetence.
Let the record show, im firmly against the double champ management.
One i can handle,
But im not happy about a discretionary relinquishment
Of 600 games of experience.
Yes, speed is the new football,
But experience wins close games,
And we havnt been in a not close game for about 5 years
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Today like last week is good to see where we are at in my opinion as a premiership threat.
You need to rejuvenate your list, rejuvenate your top 23, we need to find out who from the younger players or players who missed out on the 2020 premiership are good enough to keep us going forward in 2023 and spark the older players to keep their hunger for the season, if they can see another premiership on the horizon in season 2023..
You need at least 2 preferably 3 changes a year from your last premiership team to the next. History shows it.
Lions from their 2001 to 2002 premiership team had 2 changes.
Lions from their 2002 to 2003 premiership team had 6 changes.
8 changes over two years. (4 changes per p'ship team)
Cats from 2007 to 2009 premiership had 4 changes, over two years.
Cats from to 2009 to 2011 premiership had 7 changes, again over two years.
11 changes over 4 years (2.75 changes per p'ship team)
Hawks from 2013 to 2014 premiership had 5 changes.
Hawks from 2014 to 2015 premiership had 2 changes.
7 changes over 2 years (3.5 changes per p'ship team)
Richmond from 2017 to 2019 had 6 changes, over two years that's an average of 3 changes a year.
Richmond from 2019 to 2020 premiership had 3 changes, bang on what you need.
9 changes from 2017 - 2020, 3 changes per p'ship team)
There's 9 changes from the 2020 premiership team to today's team.
Last week it was 8 players different from the 2020 end of season team.
That's around the mark, in three years 8 or 9 changes would be great to see where we are at?
Now it doesn't faze me who from todays team is missing who you want to add to today's team. As long as we win the flag aye
For example, maybe it's Graham out for Cotchin, Young out for Gibcus, Mansell out for Broad, Ryan out for Riewoldt, Short can be the 23rd man, something like that. That's still an acceptable 7 changes over 3 years from the last team of the 2020 season.
But youth rejuvenates successful teams and players on the list who missed the last flag team bust their gut if they see a chance to be a part of a p'ship team.
That's why no team has ever been the same players in the next p'ship team. Richmond 1973 p'ship team to Richmond 1974 p'ship team had 6 changes, from 20 players, that's 30% off the team!!
Just my opinion aye
You need to rejuvenate your list, rejuvenate your top 23, we need to find out who from the younger players or players who missed out on the 2020 premiership are good enough to keep us going forward in 2023 and spark the older players to keep their hunger for the season, if they can see another premiership on the horizon in season 2023..
You need at least 2 preferably 3 changes a year from your last premiership team to the next. History shows it.
Lions from their 2001 to 2002 premiership team had 2 changes.
Lions from their 2002 to 2003 premiership team had 6 changes.
8 changes over two years. (4 changes per p'ship team)
Cats from 2007 to 2009 premiership had 4 changes, over two years.
Cats from to 2009 to 2011 premiership had 7 changes, again over two years.
11 changes over 4 years (2.75 changes per p'ship team)
Hawks from 2013 to 2014 premiership had 5 changes.
Hawks from 2014 to 2015 premiership had 2 changes.
7 changes over 2 years (3.5 changes per p'ship team)
Richmond from 2017 to 2019 had 6 changes, over two years that's an average of 3 changes a year.
Richmond from 2019 to 2020 premiership had 3 changes, bang on what you need.
9 changes from 2017 - 2020, 3 changes per p'ship team)
There's 9 changes from the 2020 premiership team to today's team.
Last week it was 8 players different from the 2020 end of season team.
That's around the mark, in three years 8 or 9 changes would be great to see where we are at?
Now it doesn't faze me who from todays team is missing who you want to add to today's team. As long as we win the flag aye
For example, maybe it's Graham out for Cotchin, Young out for Gibcus, Mansell out for Broad, Ryan out for Riewoldt, Short can be the 23rd man, something like that. That's still an acceptable 7 changes over 3 years from the last team of the 2020 season.
But youth rejuvenates successful teams and players on the list who missed the last flag team bust their gut if they see a chance to be a part of a p'ship team.
That's why no team has ever been the same players in the next p'ship team. Richmond 1973 p'ship team to Richmond 1974 p'ship team had 6 changes, from 20 players, that's 30% off the team!!
Just my opinion aye
I like the logic.Today like last week is good to see where we are at in my opinion as a premiership threat.
You need to rejuvenate your list, rejuvenate your top 23, we need to find out who from the younger players or players who missed out on the 2020 premiership are good enough to keep us going forward in 2023 and spark the older players to keep their hunger for the season, if they can see another premiership on the horizon in season 2023..
You need at least 2 preferably 3 changes a year from your last premiership team to the next. History shows it.
Lions from their 2001 to 2002 premiership team had 2 changes.
Lions from their 2002 to 2003 premiership team had 6 changes.
8 changes over two years. (4 changes per p'ship team)
Cats from 2007 to 2009 premiership had 4 changes, over two years.
Cats from to 2009 to 2011 premiership had 7 changes, again over two years.
11 changes over 4 years (2.75 changes per p'ship team)
Hawks from 2013 to 2014 premiership had 5 changes.
Hawks from 2014 to 2015 premiership had 2 changes.
7 changes over 2 years (3.5 changes per p'ship team)
Richmond from 2017 to 2019 had 6 changes, over two years that's an average of 3 changes a year.
Richmond from 2019 to 2020 premiership had 3 changes, bang on what you need.
9 changes from 2017 - 2020, 3 changes per p'ship team)
There's 9 changes from the 2020 premiership team to today's team.
Last week it was 8 players different from the 2020 end of season team.
That's around the mark, in three years 8 or 9 changes would be great to see where we are at?
Now it doesn't faze me who from todays team is missing who you want to add to today's team. As long as we win the flag aye
For example, maybe it's Graham out for Cotchin, Young out for Gibcus, Mansell out for Broad, Ryan out for Riewoldt, Short can be the 23rd man, something like that. That's still an acceptable 7 changes over 3 years from the last team of the 2020 season.
But youth rejuvenates successful teams and players on the list who missed the last flag team bust their gut if they see a chance to be a part of a p'ship team.
That's why no team has ever been the same players in the next p'ship team. Richmond 1973 p'ship team to Richmond 1974 p'ship team had 6 changes, from 20 players, that's 30% off the team!!
Just my opinion aye
But which players are changing matters.
You can shuffle the supporting staff. But it's not surprising that across the above dynasties, the core remained.
Bartel, Ling, Stevie J, Selwood, Scarlett, Chapman, Enright, Ottens
Cotchin, Riewoldt, Prestia, Lambert, Edwards Astbury, Martin, Houli, Broad, Grimes, Nank, Castagna.
All played in our 3 flags. Only 4 of them out there today.
It's the ship of Theseus thought experiment. How many, and which parts need to be replaced for it to be considered a new ship?
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