2024 - List Management | PUNT ROAD END | Richmond Tigers Forum
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2024 - List Management

The_General said:
Doesn't count to our list numbers, but people might like to know we're keeping him.
Click to expand...
I'd rather know why? Reckon OHB went past Colina the very first VFL game he played. One big lumbering lump on the B list is sufficient, would prefer us to add a different type to what's purely a hope n pray development position.
 
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Willo said:
5 years since he was drafted. I would have thought that’s plenty of time to see if he was up to afl standard.
Part of the List Management problem keeping players too long. Another example is Ben Miller, on the list for 7 years. and the jury is still out. He was always going to be a project players, forward, back, ruck..finally settled in the backline and showing some signs.
But 7 years!! Cumberland for 5 years! Then people wonder why we have so many holes in our list.

That’s one area where our List Management can and needs to improve. Keeping players for 5-7 years to see if they will eventually play at afl level. That’s just b.s. That’s an average of half a afl career if they’re lucky, just to see if they can play.
So it looks like we have a few issues that need addressing urgently.
1. Talent identification. Either we’ve got duds evaluating young players and use the incorrect matrix to identify talent or
2. Nurturing and improving the development of young players and/or
3. If 1. And 2. fail or have shortcomings, we tend to overrated a players ability to improve and keep them too long.

The 3 need to work in conjunction. A failure by any of them can set back the list. The whole strategy fails. A quicker turnover of players is a prerequisite, not just crossing your fingers and hoping they’ll come good. All of a sudden 5 or 6 years have gone by hoping.
That’s a big fail.
I’m certainly not a Blair hater, but tell me who’s responsibility it falls down to…
Respected, smart, good operator. But he has failed us over the last few years. He’s no genius. That’s obvious to anyone who wants to look at our list. If anyone argues that point, clearly they have little idea. The proof is there before your eyes. It’s not an opinion.
As I said, time to reset and reload
Click to expand...
Reckon a combination of Covid and us winning 3 flags in a hurry stifled the *smile* out of any chance of the young blokes getting proper development for a few years. Simply left a few promising potential nearly blokes not getting much chance to even get considered for senior footy bar filling the occasional injury hole.
 
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Willo said:
5 years since he was drafted. I would have thought that’s plenty of time to see if he was up to afl standard.
Part of the List Management problem keeping players too long. Another example is Ben Miller, on the list for 7 years. and the jury is still out. He was always going to be a project players, forward, back, ruck..finally settled in the backline and showing some signs.
But 7 years!! Cumberland for 5 years! Then people wonder why we have so many holes in our list.

That’s one area where our List Management can and needs to improve. Keeping players for 5-7 years to see if they will eventually play at afl level. That’s just b.s. That’s an average of half a afl career if they’re lucky, just to see if they can play.
So it looks like we have a few issues that need addressing urgently.
1. Talent identification. Either we’ve got duds evaluating young players and use the incorrect matrix to identify talent or
2. Nurturing and improving the development of young players and/or
3. If 1. And 2. fail or have shortcomings, we tend to overrated a players ability to improve and keep them too long.

The 3 need to work in conjunction. A failure by any of them can set back the list. The whole strategy fails. A quicker turnover of players is a prerequisite, not just crossing your fingers and hoping they’ll come good. All of a sudden 5 or 6 years have gone by hoping.
That’s a big fail.
I’m certainly not a Blair hater, but tell me who’s responsibility it falls down to…
Respected, smart, good operator. But he has failed us over the last few years. He’s no genius. That’s obvious to anyone who wants to look at our list. If anyone argues that point, clearly they have little idea. The proof is there before your eyes. It’s not an opinion.
As I said, time to reset and reload
Click to expand...
Best Post for 2024 Magnificent
 
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Willo said:
5 years since he was drafted. I would have thought that’s plenty of time to see if he was up to afl standard.
Part of the List Management problem keeping players too long. Another example is Ben Miller, on the list for 7 years. and the jury is still out. He was always going to be a project players, forward, back, ruck..finally settled in the backline and showing some signs.
But 7 years!! Cumberland for 5 years! Then people wonder why we have so many holes in our list.

That’s one area where our List Management can and needs to improve. Keeping players for 5-7 years to see if they will eventually play at afl level. That’s just b.s. That’s an average of half a afl career if they’re lucky, just to see if they can play.
So it looks like we have a few issues that need addressing urgently.
1. Talent identification. Either we’ve got duds evaluating young players and use the incorrect matrix to identify talent or
2. Nurturing and improving the development of young players and/or
3. If 1. And 2. fail or have shortcomings, we tend to overrated a players ability to improve and keep them too long.

The 3 need to work in conjunction. A failure by any of them can set back the list. The whole strategy fails. A quicker turnover of players is a prerequisite, not just crossing your fingers and hoping they’ll come good. All of a sudden 5 or 6 years have gone by hoping.
That’s a big fail.
I’m certainly not a Blair hater, but tell me who’s responsibility it falls down to…
Respected, smart, good operator. But he has failed us over the last few years. He’s no genius. That’s obvious to anyone who wants to look at our list. If anyone argues that point, clearly they have little idea. The proof is there before your eyes. It’s not an opinion.
As I said, time to reset and reload
Click to expand...
You had me at Miller.

Not nearly enough list turnover in recent years and now we are stuck with multiple players that are not AFL standard. If you want to criticize Blair, I’d be focusing on this area.
 
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TigerMasochist said:
I'd rather know why? Reckon OHB went past Colina the very first VFL game he played. One big lumbering lump on the B list is sufficient, would prefer us to add a different type to what's purely a hope n pray development position.
Click to expand...
Especially considering he's lost 2 years of development and turns 26yo in May next year. At what age will he become useful on the very off chance he makes it? Pointless. Almost feels like we owe him something so are obliged to keep him. Did we stuff up his injury rehab?
 
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Willo said:
5 years since he was drafted. I would have thought that’s plenty of time to see if he was up to afl standard.
Part of the List Management problem keeping players too long. Another example is Ben Miller, on the list for 7 years. and the jury is still out. He was always going to be a project players, forward, back, ruck..finally settled in the backline and showing some signs.
But 7 years!! Cumberland for 5 years! Then people wonder why we have so many holes in our list.

That’s one area where our List Management can and needs to improve. Keeping players for 5-7 years to see if they will eventually play at afl level. That’s just b.s. That’s an average of half a afl career if they’re lucky, just to see if they can play.
So it looks like we have a few issues that need addressing urgently.
1. Talent identification. Either we’ve got duds evaluating young players and use the incorrect matrix to identify talent or
2. Nurturing and improving the development of young players and/or
3. If 1. And 2. fail or have shortcomings, we tend to overrated a players ability to improve and keep them too long.

The 3 need to work in conjunction. A failure by any of them can set back the list. The whole strategy fails. A quicker turnover of players is a prerequisite, not just crossing your fingers and hoping they’ll come good. All of a sudden 5 or 6 years have gone by hoping.
That’s a big fail.
I’m certainly not a Blair hater, but tell me who’s responsibility it falls down to…
Respected, smart, good operator. But he has failed us over the last few years. He’s no genius. That’s obvious to anyone who wants to look at our list. If anyone argues that point, clearly they have little idea. The proof is there before your eyes. It’s not an opinion.
As I said, time to reset and reload
Click to expand...
100% agree on the holding onto players for too long. Turn them over and over until you find the ones who can quickly adapt. Might miss one or two that find their way to another club and succeed eventually. So be it. That's the skill of the recruiters to decide. On balance I firmly bilieve turning players over regularly gives you a better result than holding onto them.
 
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TigerFurious said:
You had me at Miller.

Not nearly enough list turnover in recent years and now we are stuck with multiple players that are not AFL standard. If you want to criticize Blair, I’d be focusing on this area.
Click to expand...
If we go back to say ‘21 the list has changed with:
Grimes
Martin
Naish
Baker
Riewoldt
Cotchin
Edwards
Castagna
Astbury
Houli
Aarts
Rioli
Soldo
Caddy
Lambert
Collier-Dawkins
Graham
Parker
Cumberland
Martyn
Coleman Jones
Chol
Garthwaite
Eggmollesse-Smith
Stack
Nyuon
Pickett

no longer on the list. It’s turned over heaps, it’s just that quality coming in wasn’t as good as a lot of the quality going out.
 
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tigertim said:
If we go back to say ‘21 the list has changed with:
Grimes
Martin
Naish
Baker
Riewoldt
Cotchin
Edwards
Castagna
Astbury
Houli
Aarts
Rioli
Soldo
Caddy
Lambert
Collier-Dawkins
Graham
Parker
Cumberland
Martyn
Coleman Jones
Chol
Garthwaite
Eggmollesse-Smith
Stack
Nyuon
Pickett
Bolton

no longer on the list. It’s turned over heaps, it’s just that quality coming in wasn’t as good as a lot of the quality going
Click to expand...
And 11 or so off the list within the last 12 months, 8 this year, which highly inflates inflates the the list turnover.
But agreed the quality isn’t there. No doubt after keeping players for 5-7 years, that haven’t established themselves, or are just off decent afl standard, more will need to be cut.
The list composition is terrible. No ruck or ruck/fwd or fwd/ ruck. No key forwards, no specialist fwd pockets, no mids with pace. One kpp with 7 years 46 games under his belt who might be a kpb. One elite Kpp who has been struck down by injury.
We have players who’ve been on the list for years and we still don’t know what to make of them or if they’ll make the grade.
It’s a terrible list composition. Not the work of a genius that’s for sure.
We have probably 2 -3 drafts and trade periods to rectify it. We’ve a good hand this year. Just need to pick the eyes out of it.
 
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Willo said:
.........
The list composition is terrible. No ruck or ruck/fwd or fwd/ ruck. No key forwards, no specialist fwd pockets, .......
Click to expand...
Kosi - fwd/ruck
Gray - Fwd/Ruck

Fawcett - KPF

Gray was impressive in training pre his hamstring. I can see why the got him. He turned Balta inside out a couple of times in match sims. Pee'd Balta off no end (was actually funny to watch).

The Tap looked good in his very limited minutes at VFL level late in the season. Strong contested marking.
 
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HKTigerB said:
Kosi - fwd/ruck
Gray - Fwd/Ruck

Fawcett - KPF

Gray was impressive in training pre his hamstring. I can see why the got him. He turned Balta inside out a couple of times in match sims. Pee'd Balta off no end (was actually funny to watch).

The Tap looked good in his very limited minutes at VFL level late in the season. Strong contested marking.
Click to expand...
I stand slightly corrected.
I meant decent ones. Not ones we play in desperation like Kosi. Although he did improve a bit.
Gray? Fawcett? How far off are they? Are they genuine prospects or hail Mary’s?
Kosi 196 cms 96kgs
Fawcett 197cms 89kgs what position was he playing HK?
Gray 195cms 91kgs (small for a fwd/ruck)
 
taztiger4 said:
If list sizes remain as per below we would have Max 8 spots

Minimum 37 players all up on list
Maximum 44 players all up on list inc 2 Cat B
Minimum 36 & max 38 on main list
4-6 Cat A Rookies
2 Cat B Rookies


I think we will upgrade Seth Campbell - Contracted to 2026 (along with Lefau) all other rookies are contracted till 2025
Click to expand...

Question Blair Hartley.

If that happens i.e. Campbell goes to main list.

Do those 8 free spots on primary list include assumption McIntosh and Dow get a contract? i.e. it could still be more if we delist either.
 
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