2024 Draft Thread

[Sintiger]

Couple of things with the academy players and obviously firstly is how do the newer clubs especially in the hostile playing markets get an opportunity to retain their talent and thereby grow the overall game market if it's all drafted from interstate and then *smile* back off interstate at the first available opportunity? For the short term they need premium access to some home grown kids to grow into the core of their club and thereby entice future kids to the AFL pathway away from Rugby league and Soccer. Every club in the land spent the first ten formative years of Mold Coast n Gee Whizz just sitting back with the cheque book open n draft pick handouts ready to poach every possible talent that had done their initial couple of years development.
Also by comparison how much time and effort are these clubs actually putting into growing their academies as actual pathways to AFL compared to the time and effort being put in by the clubs based in the traditional AFL states? From the little I see or hear about it clubs have very limited interest or involvement in the junior academies here in Vic. It's just the State n National U18's comps that have been providing the core of the draft with bugger all input from clubs. Now they're all bent out of shape 'coz they can't get hold of the new clubs development of local talent for SFA.

A few things

1. The time, effort and money they spend is mainly AFL money and because of equalisation some of it comes from RFC. The game is being grown partly with our club's money which only exists because of supporters like us.
2. RFC would spend time and effort on an academy as well if we had one that gave us players of the ilk of the northern acadamies.
3. The poaching of Gold Coast and GWS players was the market at work, they had too much talent so couldn't pay them market rate. That will happen again but the problem is they will not only have the draft picks from the movement of the players they lose but also access to a production line of topliners. If they are administered well they will never bottom out.
4. You are arguing as if the aim is to take away their access to players and noone is arguing that. The only argument is price and what is required for that price ( the junk pick crackdown)

 

[jokershoppe]

That's the fault of the AFL system which all clubs have been rorting flat out for years.
Mold Coast simply hit the jack pot all of a sudden n rorted it better than anyone else could even imagine. That's purely a mix of good management and riding the lucky streak to it's fullest extent. Funny how everyone else in the comp has been happy to take advantage of and manipulate the system for years without anything more than the barest squeak n then amazingly there's howls of outrage and the rules need to be changed when the green horn newbie suddenly bends them all over n butt *smile* them hard.

Not true,just not the case,instead I would argue that tigers whom.made 2 finals series in 30 years got maybe 2-3 concession picks in all that time whereby Sydney got several top 20 academy kids for thuk all and gcs and gws especially gcs have rules that only apply to 4 clubs,who else can finish mid table and get 4 top 20 players with 3 top 25 picks again this year.
The afl.did sweet thuk all to assist Richmond up the ladder.

 

[tigersnake]

Couple of things with the academy players and obviously firstly is how do the newer clubs especially in the hostile playing markets get an opportunity to retain their talent and thereby grow the overall game market if it's all drafted from interstate and then *smile* back off interstate at the first available opportunity? For the short term they need premium access to some home grown kids to grow into the core of their club and thereby entice future kids to the AFL pathway away from Rugby league and Soccer. Every club in the land spent the first ten formative years of Mold Coast n Gee Whizz just sitting back with the cheque book open n draft pick handouts ready to poach every possible talent that had done their initial couple of years development.
Also by comparison how much time and effort are these clubs actually putting into growing their academies as actual pathways to AFL compared to the time and effort being put in by the clubs based in the traditional AFL states? From the little I see or hear about it clubs have very limited interest or involvement in the junior academies here in Vic. It's just the State n National U18's comps that have been providing the core of the draft with bugger all input from clubs. Now they're all bent out of shape 'coz they can't get hold of the new clubs development of local talent for SFA.

On the time and effort put into the academies point, for me, not really. The Northern Academies are like Coates League teams, completely different. They play games against Coates league teams. They get the money from the AFL, they hire a coach, comb the local comps for talent, send out some invites, and bob's your uncle. Is that time and money? I suppose so, but not really. If the AFL suddenly said to Geelong you can run the Geelong Falcons and you get priority access to all the players, do you reckon they'd baulk at that because of all the time and effort they would have to put in?

To me the Suns academy is a bit like farming, if the weather is good, and prices are up, even crap farmers make a motza.

 

[jokershoppe]

A few things

1. The time, effort and money they spend is mainly AFL money and because of equalisation some of it comes from RFC. The game is being grown partly with our club's money which only exists because of supporters like us.
2. RFC would spend time and effort on an academy as well if we had one that gave us players of the ilk of the northern acadamies.
3. The poaching of Gold Coast and GWS players was the market at work, they had too much talent so couldn't pay them market rate. That will happen again but the problem is they will not only have the draft picks from the movement of the players they lose but also access to a production line of topliners. If they are administered well they will never bottom out.
4. You are arguing as if the aim is to take away their access to players and noone is arguing that. The only argument is price and what is required for that price ( the junk pick crackdown)

Well said,especially as I lived through our baron yesrs years from 1980s until 2012 and afl happily accepted us never making finals, took us for granted.

 

[jokershoppe]

On the time and effort put into the academies point, for me, not really. The Northern Academies are like Coates League teams, completely different. They play games against Coates league teams. They get the money from the AFL, they hire a coach, comb the local comps for talent, send out some invites, and bob's your uncle. Is that time and money? I suppose so, but not really. If the AFL suddenly said to Geelong you can run the Geelong Falcons and you get priority access to all the players, do you reckon they'd baulk at that because of all the time and effort they would have to put in?

To me the Suns academy is a bit like farming, if the weather is good, and prices are up, even crap farmers make a motza.

Yes how could u not get sex in a Bangkok brothel.

 

[nikolasmia]

Endurance is huge. 6.00min 2km tt
Speed is good especially his first few steps
Agility is huge..slippery as an eel is a great analogy
Skills are top notch but isn’t a big kick. 35m - 40m in most cases sees him out but he does default to 20m short passes where he can link up with handball receives.

He is certainly a top 5 selection. Prefer Finn but if we got Jagga we are still getting a gun.

I think if you compare Hotton to jagga he leaves jagga in his wake

Had the pleasure of seeing hotton in person this year and he was unreal

Screamed superstar to me with his dynamic ball winning and goal kicking ability

Doubt there is a more talented player in the pool and would be happy for us to take him at pick 2 , regardless of his knee injury he is that good .

 

[Stewlander]

I think if you compare Hotton to jagga he leaves jagga in his wake

Had the pleasure of seeing hotton in person this year and he was unreal

Screamed superstar to me with his dynamic ball winning and goal kicking ability

Doubt there is a more talented player in the pool and would be happy for us to take him at pick 2 , regardless of his knee injury he is that good .

I know for a fact we are super keen on him. Us, Saints and the blues huge fans and rate him around the 5-7 mark.

 

[Scoop]

Our NGA player Zayden Lockwood also played well l was told,very athletic ,and good overhead he's 198cm 79kg ,,

Bengal, is Lockwood any chance to be there after 40? Feels like he is racing up the boards. If we could pinch him after 40 it would be a huge bonus.

 

[Tigerfan]

If we keep our current position, I’d say we are the best team ever to finish reverse 2nd

But if RFC keep that pick for the draft we’ve GOT to use it wisely

I’m reminded of Melbourne with pick 1 & 2 overlooking Dusty at 3.

 

[spook]

Bengal, is Lockwood any chance to be there after 40? Feels like he is racing up the boards. If we could pinch him after 40 it would be a huge bonus.

Not named in the Vic Country squad of 33.

 

[spook]

Here's a thought. To me, Vontae O'Cotchin is a clear number 1. And at this point, Guy Smillie is probably a clear #2. I have Lombard and Ashcroft as the next two, subject to Lalor and Allan getting a run at it and potentially overtaking them. Hotton could have pushed too but will probably slip a little due to the knee. Either way, it looks like Lombard could well be bid on in the first 5.

At this point if I had pick 3 and the first two were gone as they almost certainly will be, I'd bid on Lombard then Ashcroft.

Gold Coast currently holds pick 8 (tied to the Bulldogs) and 11 (theirs). Squiggle ladder predictor tells me they'll end up 9 (theirs) and 10 (Dogs). Contrary to thinking that we could bundle up later picks to get one of those, I think they will be offering them up to get ahead of a Lombard bid. The team with pick 3 (currently West Coast) is in the box seat to do the deal.

After Lombard/Ashcroft matches, those picks would slide to 11 and 12.

Let's say it looks like this:
1. Smillie
2. O'Sullivan
3. Lombard
4. Ashcroft

with Jagga, Hotton, Lalor, Allan, Trainor and Draper rounding out the top 10 in whatever order, just as an example.

So, the question for the team with pick 3 is, would you rather one of Jagga/Lalor/Allan/Hotton/Trainor/Draper, or two of Moraes/Whitlocks/Shanahan/O'Farrell/Faull/Reid/Johnson/Mraz/Lindsay/Another?

Edit: Although I have Vontae the #1, plenty have Smillie, and talk is Norf would take him as a point of difference to their midfield.

 

[bengal tigers]

Bengal, is Lockwood any chance to be there after 40? Feels like he is racing up the boards. If we could pinch him after 40 it would be a huge bonus.

He is tracking nicely, and with 18 clubs looking for KP types you don't really know where he might go.
I wonder if the AFL will change the NGA system this year.
He is 198cm and very athletic with a great leap,clubs would be looking at him as a future defender.

Im sure the Tigers will be all over it,and he has trained at the the club,needs to build up quite a bit but is certainly a prospect.

 

[bengal tigers]

Not named in the Vic Country squad of 33.

Quite a few of the same sort,and other's a little bit a head of him ,but l wouldn't be surprised to see him play a game or two in the later games.

 

[Leysy Days]

Some talk here on Academy's. Leysy's view.

Not stressed about interstate clubs academy's. The AFL are on record that it will all change and clubs paying a truer worth compared to the joke it is now. The only question is this year of next. For our sake with all our later picks let's hopefully it is next year.

The NGA is the one am worried about. You can hear the jungle drums that some clubs and the AFL want to open this up. i.e. If you have an NGA product you can draft him anywhere. Bad Bad move. Most of these players would have been drafted anyway. Unlike club academy's in growing states, you aren’t bringing these guys into the game, they come in on a pathway the same as everyone else. Look at Mac Andrew - One of the very very best players of his draft year and a future star you can build a club around. He would have went to Melbourne who had won that years flag. On the back of doing very litttle to develop him. Ugle-Hagen similar.

They aren't expanding the game and there are two very big downsides:

1. It will even more compromise the draft. Between Academy's and NGA half the first round (or more) in any given year will be academy selections.
2. And even more importantly, it will be impossible to make zones equal. Some clubs will get fantastic zones that will have a truckload of talent. Similar to the 80's where Hawthorn's era was largely built on being gifted the best recruiting zone in the league. Whilst other's will have a scarce supply of talent - year after year. Unfortunately can see it happening as interstate clubs are pushing heavily for it. Can also see it being an unmitigated disaster that will absolutely cruel some clubs. The whole NGA academy's should be wound up, not expanded.

 

[Leysy Days]

Here's a thought. To me, Vontae O'Cotchin is a clear number 1. And at this point, Guy Smillie is probably a clear #2. I have Lombard and Ashcroft as the next two, subject to Lalor and Allan getting a run at it and potentially overtaking them. Hotton could have pushed too but will probably slip a little due to the knee. Either way, it looks like Lombard could well be bid on in the first 5.

At this point if I had pick 3 and the first two were gone as they almost certainly will be, I'd bid on Lombard then Ashcroft.

Gold Coast currently holds pick 8 (tied to the Bulldogs) and 11 (theirs). Squiggle ladder predictor tells me they'll end up 9 (theirs) and 10 (Dogs). Contrary to thinking that we could bundle up later picks to get one of those, I think they will be offering them up to get ahead of a Lombard bid. The team with pick 3 (currently West Coast) is in the box seat to do the deal.

After Lombard/Ashcroft matches, those picks would slide to 11 and 12.

Let's say it looks like this:
1. Smillie
2. O'Sullivan
3. Lombard
4. Ashcroft

with Jagga, Hotton, Lalor, Allan, Trainor and Draper rounding out the top 10 in whatever order, just as an example.

So, the question for the team with pick 3 is, would you rather one of Jagga/Lalor/Allan/Hotton/Trainor/Draper, or two of Moraes/Whitlocks/Shanahan/O'Farrell/Faull/Reid/Johnson/Mraz/Lindsay/Another?

Edit: Although I have Vontae the #1, plenty have Smillie, and talk is Norf would take him as a point of difference to their midfield.

Fair poser. But it's just too early to say.

You can be sure as the year goes on, some of those guys you list outside the top 2 will jump up, separate themselves and possibly challenge the top 2 you list.

One of them might be Lombard himself. That blows up on GC if say we have pick 2 and bid on him.

 

[Ridley]

The whole NGA academy's should be wound up, not expanded.

Absolute truth Leysy. Have been saying it for years; the NGAs are a total rort. Absolute *smile*. How Collingwood got exclusive access to Isaac Quanyor; born, bred and raised in Melbourne with the same opportunity as any other kid, just because his dad was born in Ghana 50 years ago, is a total joke.

Plus the point about some clubs getting better academies than others is very valid. How did Scumwood get exclusive NGA access to the best junior program in Australia; the Oakleigh Chargers? WTF?? And we get probably the worst NGA, the Murray River. And not the good part of the Murray around Albury which produces a lot of great footballers.

Just get rid of them.

 

[Leysy Days]

Absolute truth Leysy. Have been saying it for years; the NGAs are a total rort. Absolute *smile*. How Collingwood got exclusive access to Isaac Quanyor; born, bred and raised in Melbourne with the same opportunity as any other kid, just because his dad was born in Ghana 50 years ago, is a total joke.

Plus the point about some clubs getting better academies than others is very valid. How did Scumwood get exclusive NGA access to the best junior program in Australia; the Oakleigh Chargers? WTF?? And we get probably the worst NGA, the Murray River. And not the good part of the Murray around Albury which produces a lot of great footballers.

Just get rid of them.

unfortunately mate, can see them pretty drastically expanded. Not reduced.

 

[spook]

Fair poser. But it's just too early to say.

You can be sure as the year goes on, some of those guys you list outside the top 2 will jump up, separate themselves and possibly challenge the top 2 you list.

One of them might be Lombard himself. That blows up on GC if say we have pick 2 and bid on him.

Yeah it's too early. But avagoyamug.

I like Lombard but if that scenario eventuated GC would laugh and take Vontae at 3.

 

[tigersnake]

Yeah it's too early. But avagoyamug.

I like Lombard but if that scenario eventuated GC would laugh and take Vontae at 3.

No they wouldn't. They'd just yawn and match with a heap of junk picks with a big fat 10% discount, just like last year.

If say Smillie and FOS end up being standout top 2, the scenario is moot, it won't happen, but if LL Cool J is in the convo, they'll match.

 

[Scoop]

He is tracking nicely, and with 18 clubs looking for KP types you don't really know where he might go.
I wonder if the AFL will change the NGA system this year.
He is 198cm and very athletic with a great leap,clubs would be looking at him as a future defender.

Im sure the Tigers will be all over it,and he has trained at the the club,needs to build up quite a bit but is certainly a prospect.

You don't let 198cm athletic types go. That's Sam Taylor size, Nick Larkey size, that's Ben Miller size.

You can never have enough. Let's hope.