2013 Election Year Party Policies- Liberal

[Liverpool]

I agree with this. In my line of work the amount of well-off clients who ask about what welfare payments they are entitled to is staggering. It never used to be this way. And these are often working couples who both earn $80K plus and are still seeking handouts.

Soda,

Do you think that maybe these "well off" people see everyone else sponging off them and they are just trying to get some of their money back?

No harm in asking and if they're entitled to it, then why not....its alright for the "working families" then it should be o.k for everybody else.

 

[mld]

I agree with this. In my line of work the amount of well-off clients who ask about what welfare payments they are entitled to is staggering. It never used to be this way. And these are often working couples who both earn $80K plus and are still seeking handouts. Or small business owners (some in cash industries) not satisfied that not only are they often avoiding tax but they want to maximise gov't payments also. It's quite depressing. Unfortunately the rise of middle-class welfare has created a generation of taxpayers expecting gov't handouts.

Yes, the sense of entitlement is staggering. It is quite obscene how people who could afford to look after themselves are elbowing their way to the front of the dole queue.

I agree.
Imo all welfare should be means tested. Strictly.
But maybe the cost of employing more bureaucrats outweigh the actual cost/benefit.

It isn't just about cost/benefit, it is about what we consider the role of government is. Do we think the government is here to look after everyone's finances as if they were children, or do we expect the government to simply maintain a safety net and focus on helping those who need it (eg directing money towards schemes such as the NDIS).

Also, if a payment costs more to keep it from people that don't need it than it does to pay it to everyone, it suggests to me that the payment is a fundamentally flawed way of addressing the intended underlying problem.

 

[Liverpool]

It isn't just about cost/benefit, it is about what we consider the role of government is. Do we think the government is here to look after everyone's finances as if they were children, or do we expect the government to simply maintain a safety net and focus on helping those who need it (eg directing money towards schemes such as the NDIS).

well, is someone on the dole for 10+ years a "safety net"?

Why should 'well off/rich' people be burdened by these people time after time and punished for going out there and doing the best they can?

 

[tigersnake]

Yes, the sense of entitlement is staggering. It is quite obscene how people who could afford to look after themselves are elbowing their way to the front of the dole queue.

It isn't just about cost/benefit, it is about what we consider the role of government is. Do we think the government is here to look after everyone's finances as if they were children, or do we expect the government to simply maintain a safety net and focus on helping those who need it (eg directing money towards schemes such as the NDIS).

Also, if a payment costs more to keep it from people that don't need it than it does to pay it to everyone, it suggests to me that the payment is a fundamentally flawed way of addressing the intended underlying problem.

Agree. The debate that occurred back in 07 when Labor flagged that they were going to start means testing certain payments, very minimally, was amazing. The sense of entitlement was amazing. I remember one story in the Weekend Aus magazine on 'what is wealthy', one bloke actually said with a straight face 'those Foxtell and private school bills aren't cheap you know'.

 

[mld]

I must admit I find the idea that looking after your own budgeting and planning for the costs of starting a family to be a 'punishment' astonishing. People should take pride in being able to support themselves.

 

[Willo]

Yes, the sense of entitlement is staggering. It is quite obscene how people who could afford to look after themselves are elbowing their way to the front of the dole queue.

It isn't just about cost/benefit, it is about what we consider the role of government is. Do we think the government is here to look after everyone's finances as if they were children, or do we expect the government to simply maintain a safety net and focus on helping those who need it (eg directing money towards schemes such as the NDIS).

Also, if a payment costs more to keep it from people that don't need it than it does to pay it to everyone, it suggests to me that the payment is a fundamentally flawed way of addressing the intended underlying problem.

Agreed

well, is someone on the dole for 10+ years a "safety net"?

Why should 'well off/rich' people be burdened by these people time after time and punished for going out there and doing the best they can?

There should be stricter qualifying. Especially when you have generations of the same family not even looking to/for work.

I remember one story in the Weekend Aus magazine on 'what is wealthy', one bloke actually said with a straight face 'those Foxtell and private school bills aren't cheap you know'.

:hihi unbelievable.
I'm a poor fella, no foxtel in my house.

 

[tigergollywog]

Yes, the sense of entitlement is staggering. It is quite obscene how people who could afford to look after themselves are elbowing their way to the front of the dole queue.

Greece

 

[K3]

This thread (certain posts) has actually made me feel rather worried about the future of our country...

 

[Tigers of Old]

Yes, the sense of entitlement is staggering. It is quite obscene how people who could afford to look after themselves are elbowing their way to the front of the dole queue.

It isn't just about cost/benefit, it is about what we consider the role of government is. Do we think the government is here to look after everyone's finances as if they were children, or do we expect the government to simply maintain a safety net and focus on helping those who need it (eg directing money towards schemes such as the NDIS).

Also, if a payment costs more to keep it from people that don't need it than it does to pay it to everyone, it suggests to me that the payment is a fundamentally flawed way of addressing the intended underlying problem.

Post of the thread.

 

[tigergollywog]

This thread (certain posts) has actually made me feel rather worried about the future of our country...

Dont worry K3, just turn the vege garden over and build a chook run.

 

[Ian4]

Abbott has ruled out a return of WorkChoices

he won't do it by stealth? lets not forget that after howard won a majority in both houses after the 2004 election, the industrial relations laws he his party passed were a lot harsher on the worker than what he initially compaigned for... so are you telling me that if 2013 is a landslide for abbott in both houses, that he won't use this to trigger more harsher anti-worker polices? spare me dude, because i don't believe that for a second.

That's fine and your opinion but the reality is that more western countries have gone down the paid parental leave route, whether you (and me) like it or not.

so that means we need to follow suit? i've personally had a gutful of the constant handouts familes get from both sides of politics. don't get me wrong, i'm not suggesting that families don't deserve anything... but at the end of the day, they have made the life choice to start a family. so why do they get so much, but hard working, tax paying, singles get nothing?

Imo all welfare should be means tested. Strictly.

absolute fair dinkum no brainer

 

[evo]

Not wanting something done half-arsed sounds like the perfect argument for keeping government well away from it.

 

[evo]

i've personally had a gutful of the constant handouts familes get from both sides of politics.

same. It is worse when the Liberals do it though. They are suppossed to be the choice for people who don't want economic overgovernance.

 

[TigerFurious]

i've personally had a gutful of the constant handouts familes get from both sides of politics.

Government handouts are problem for democracies the world over. People are inherently selfish and will vote for whoever offers them the most. Politicians have little choice but to keep dishing out the money because that's what their opponents are offering and that's what people expect.

 

[Liverpool]

Government handouts are problem for democracies the world over. People are inherently selfish and will vote for whoever offers them the most. Politicians have little choice but to keep dishing out the money because that's what their opponents are offering and that's what people expect.

Handouts happen because its part of the "financial distribution" mechanism that people moan about.

You only have to come onto this forum and see the constant whining about taxing anyone who is successful and then giving this money as handouts to people who, in some cases, CHOOSE, to live a more frugal lifestyle.

I am not sure its about people being selfish....and talking from myself...I don't see why I should do well in my work, get promoted etc...and then because of my success I end up crossing another tax threshold and having to pay more for Joe Blow so he can keep playing Playstation and sucking on his bong.

Then when some people who are deemed "well off" get something back, then people complain again.

A perfect example is the debate about parental leave....Abbott wants to allow mothers who take leave to give birth to their child, to be able to simply earn the same amount of money they have worked hard to achieve before falling pregnant.
Nothing wrong with that in my eye, because of that woman earns $150,000 from being successful throughout her non-pregnant life, why should she then be punished and have her wage lowered to the minimum wage, as the ALP (and others on this forum) suggest?
Its not a handout, its simply letting her earn the money she has worked hard to earn.

So while people may be selfish...there are a few who are jealous of people who are successful and have a chip on their shoulder as a result.

 

[Brodders17]

A perfect example is the debate about parental leave....Abbott wants to allow mothers who take leave to give birth to their child, to be able to simply earn the same amount of money they have worked hard to achieve before falling pregnant.
Nothing wrong with that in my eye, because of that woman earns $150,000 from being successful throughout her non-pregnant life, why should she then be punished and have her wage lowered to the minimum wage, as the ALP (and others on this forum) suggest?
Its not a handout, its simply letting her earn the money she has worked hard to earn.

So while people may be selfish...there are a few who are jealous of people who are successful and have a chip on their shoulder as a result.

if a parent of a child with a disability has to stop work to look after that child should the government pay their wage, or should they receive the same stay at home rate as anyone else?
if someone has to take 6 months off work because they fall ill should the government pay them their full wage or should they pay everyone the same rate?

 

[Willo]

if a parent of a child with a disability has to stop work to look after that child should the government pay their wage, or should they receive the same stay at home rate as anyone else?
if someone has to take 6 months off work because they fall ill should the government pay them their full wage or should they pay everyone the same rate?

Fair point

 

[Liverpool]

if a parent of a child with a disability has to stop work to look after that child should the government pay their wage, or should they receive the same stay at home rate as anyone else?

I would assume looking after a child with a disability would be more long-term than someone just going on maternity leave.

if someone has to take 6 months off work because they fall ill should the government pay them their full wage or should they pay everyone the same rate?

I have no problem the Government paying someone the same amount of time as parental leave to pay someone who, say gets cancer and needs chemo for a few months.

 

[Brodders17]

Fair point

all my points are fair. ;D

 

[Willo]

all my points are fair. ;D

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder ;D