You need top 5 ND picks to win flags!!! | PUNT ROAD END | Richmond Tigers Forum
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You need top 5 ND picks to win flags!!!

not a fan of bottoming out , it is a dangerous strategy

Top 3 picks do throw up true elite talent and plenty of very good players , but 20+% would not be regarded as elite or very good
in recent times , 2017 Paddy Dow Blues #3 , 2015 Josh Schace Lions #2 , 2014 Paddy McCartin (thru injury) Saints #1
and if you think for a second that would never happen to us say out loud Tambling , Conca , Oakley-Nicholls ... it can and does happen to most clubs

Top 3 picks do largely stay with their original club , but if you are seen as a basket case , think us raiding the Gold Coast , Port raiding North last year and plenty raiding GWS
you can pick well only to have them stolen by another club

We are witnessing North & Gold Coast bottom out and it aint pretty

Go clubs with a bigger base Melb. Essendon and Carlton , Melb did manage to finally get out of the bottom 4 , then get to finals and whole the whole thing
but the other two have had long hard struggles , things are looking better for both but neither are there yet

Not only does the playing list look sad but the sponsors drop off , so to the fairweather supporters (but hey they bring money)
and the football dept. and admin all get run down and the board often start in fighting

we've been there and its a cold and lonely place

I like the way the club is trying to unearth talent
instead of mindlessly going to TAC Cup player in the National Draft and maybe a VFL player as a rookie
Mate Colina , Eggmolesse-Smith , Taylar Young , Bradtke , Sampson Ryan etc

Kane Lambert & Jake King were mature aged rookie success stories

I would rate Soldo as a Cat B success

We take players from every state , even thou we do seem to like WA

We've taken risks with players who are seen as a risk Stack & Pickett

at first under hardwick we did trade in something of list cloggers , they were bargain basement players
but as we started improving we have targeted quality players like Prestia , Caddy , Lynch , Grigg , Houli
Tarranto and Hopper are a work in progress

the likes of Baker & Broad weren't applauded here in their first two years , but don't we love them now

if we bottom out I'd say us or any club is a 40% chance of a 10 - 20 year prison sentence hanging around the bottom , with a couple of false dawns thrown in , I don't want to go there again in my life time

We are hanging our hopes on Gibcus , Sonsie , Ryan , Young , Clarke etc

we also need some of Green , Banks , Brown , Biggie to come thru

and looking at the VFL highlights from the weekend , a very brief cameo of Archie May , tall skinny and 18 , very much a long term project , but first thoughts were "oh hello :) "

keep doing what they , go everywhere and any where looking for talent
 
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The brutal reality is we need another Martin (Pick 3), Cotchin (Pick 2)

Plus a bullseye top 20 like Jack Riewoldt (Pick 13)

To get to our next flag.

Keep topping up, you say. Doesn’t work.

Forget about Geelong. They still had their Cotch, Dusty and Riewoldt (Selwood, Danger and Hawkins) firing last year. Plus, they had their Lynch (Cameron) in career best form.

Forget about Sydney. They annually set up to contend but don’t look close at the end of the day.

We need two top fives (hard to miss) and a bullseye top 20.

So we bottom out starting now.

Some posters who know far more about list management than I have been posting this for some time now. Bully, Scooper to name two.

Who’s our top end mid in the 18-23 age bracket? Sonsie. Will be a good player but he ain’t Cotch or Dusty.

Gibcus could be our next quarterback superhunk, so we have that.

No first rounder in 2023 hurts bad. We need to trade in, make some hard calls on established players.

Vlastuin, Broad, Short, Bolton, Lynch, Rioli, Baker.

Not all, but some. Anyone with currency.

Bottom out and get those high picks. If we’re in it for flags, there’s no other way.
Those "high picks" are no guarantee of picking up another Dusty or Cotchin.

I posted this on the Taranto thread..............."The Bombers have 11 players on their list taken in the top 10 of the draft, The Roos and Suns have 10, the Dockers 9, the Giants have 9, which would be 11 if we didn't take Taranto and Hopper off their hands. We have 7, including Prestia, Taranto and Hopper."
 
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Taranto and Hopper are either top 10 or they aren't mate. will be around for 7 years, I say they count. Geelong gave up a lot for Cameron. Vlastuin was drafted at pick 9 so also counts. I'd say he is our best backman he would be five star for me although not showing it this season so far.

already updated, of course they're valid inclusions

vlastuin was pick 9, my bad, but like cotch and jack probably cooked
 
not a fan of bottoming out , it is a dangerous strategy

Top 3 picks do throw up true elite talent and plenty of very good players , but 20+% would not be regarded as elite or very good
in recent times , 2017 Paddy Dow Blues #3 , 2015 Josh Schace Lions #2 , 2014 Paddy McCartin (thru injury) Saints #1
and if you think for a second that would never happen to us say out loud Tambling , Conca , Oakley-Nicholls ... it can and does happen to most clubs

Top 3 picks do largely stay with their original club , but if you are seen as a basket case , think us raiding the Gold Coast , Port raiding North last year and plenty raiding GWS
you can pick well only to have them stolen by another club

We are witnessing North & Gold Coast bottom out and it aint pretty

Go clubs with a bigger base Melb. Essendon and Carlton , Melb did manage to finally get out of the bottom 4 , then get to finals and whole the whole thing
but the other two have had long hard struggles , things are looking better for both but neither are there yet

Not only does the playing list look sad but the sponsors drop off , so to the fairweather supporters (but hey they bring money)
and the football dept. and admin all get run down and the board often start in fighting

we've been there and its a cold and lonely place

I like the way the club is trying to unearth talent
instead of mindlessly going to TAC Cup player in the National Draft and maybe a VFL player as a rookie
Mate Colina , Eggmolesse-Smith , Taylar Young , Bradtke , Sampson Ryan etc

Kane Lambert & Jake King were mature aged rookie success stories

I would rate Soldo as a Cat B success

We take players from every state , even thou we do seem to like WA

We've taken risks with players who are seen as a risk Stack & Pickett

at first under hardwick we did trade in something of list cloggers , they were bargain basement players
but as we started improving we have targeted quality players like Prestia , Caddy , Lynch , Grigg , Houli
Tarranto and Hopper are a work in progress

the likes of Baker & Broad weren't applauded here in their first two years , but don't we love them now

if we bottom out I'd say us or any club is a 40% chance of a 10 - 20 year prison sentence hanging around the bottom , with a couple of false dawns thrown in , I don't want to go there again in my life time

We are hanging our hopes on Gibcus , Sonsie , Ryan , Young , Clarke etc

we also need some of Green , Banks , Brown , Biggie to come thru

and looking at the VFL highlights from the weekend , a very brief cameo of Archie May , tall skinny and 18 , very much a long term project , but first thoughts were "oh hello :) "

keep doing what they , go everywhere and any where looking for talent

all valid points but the evidence suggests you still need an oliver / petracca one-two punch to truly contend and I'm wondering where that comes from.

natural bottoming might give us a chance to get at least one of those types from the ND
 
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Those "high picks" are no guarantee of picking up another Dusty or Cotchin.

I posted this on the Taranto thread..............."The Bombers have 11 players on their list taken in the top 10 of the draft, The Roos and Suns have 10, the Dockers 9, the Giants have 9, which would be 11 if we didn't take Taranto and Hopper off their hands. We have 7, including Prestia, Taranto and Hopper."

many clubs *smile* it up because they are *smile* clubs with *smile* list managers.

even so, essendon might finally be turning the corner (hopefully not)

i'd be backing in our list managers in the event of a bottoming

with our list profile could be a quick bounce
 
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The brutal reality is we need another Martin (Pick 3), Cotchin (Pick 2)

Plus a bullseye top 20 like Jack Riewoldt (Pick 13)

To get to our next flag.

Keep topping up, you say. Doesn’t work.

Forget about Geelong. They still had their Cotch, Dusty and Riewoldt (Selwood, Danger and Hawkins) firing last year. Plus, they had their Lynch (Cameron) in career best form.

Forget about Sydney. They annually set up to contend but don’t look close at the end of the day.

We need two top fives (hard to miss) and a bullseye top 20.

So we bottom out starting now.

Some posters who know far more about list management than I have been posting this for some time now. Bully, Scooper to name two.

Who’s our top end mid in the 18-23 age bracket? Sonsie. Will be a good player but he ain’t Cotch or Dusty.

Gibcus could be our next quarterback superhunk, so we have that.

No first rounder in 2023 hurts bad. We need to trade in, make some hard calls on established players.

Vlastuin, Broad, Short, Bolton, Lynch, Rioli, Baker.

Not all, but some. Anyone with currency.

Bottom out and get those high picks. If we’re in it for flags, there’s no other way.

No point bottoming out this year, we have no draft picks
 
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Excellent musings

If the class of 2021 (Sonsie, Gibcus et al,) work out and be 100-200 gamers we have hit the draft jackpot and won't damage too much our lack of high picks in 22 and 23. This is what the List Management would be banking on moving forward.

Have a look at the last 5 All Australian sides - 90 per cent of players were non top 10-15 selections.

Most 15-40 and alot of rookies - They are out there - Good recruiting will find them but more importantly good development will shape them


not a fan of bottoming out , it is a dangerous strategy

Top 3 picks do throw up true elite talent and plenty of very good players , but 20+% would not be regarded as elite or very good
in recent times , 2017 Paddy Dow Blues #3 , 2015 Josh Schace Lions #2 , 2014 Paddy McCartin (thru injury) Saints #1
and if you think for a second that would never happen to us say out loud Tambling , Conca , Oakley-Nicholls ... it can and does happen to most clubs

Top 3 picks do largely stay with their original club , but if you are seen as a basket case , think us raiding the Gold Coast , Port raiding North last year and plenty raiding GWS
you can pick well only to have them stolen by another club

We are witnessing North & Gold Coast bottom out and it aint pretty

Go clubs with a bigger base Melb. Essendon and Carlton , Melb did manage to finally get out of the bottom 4 , then get to finals and whole the whole thing
but the other two have had long hard struggles , things are looking better for both but neither are there yet

Not only does the playing list look sad but the sponsors drop off , so to the fairweather supporters (but hey they bring money)
and the football dept. and admin all get run down and the board often start in fighting

we've been there and its a cold and lonely place

I like the way the club is trying to unearth talent
instead of mindlessly going to TAC Cup player in the National Draft and maybe a VFL player as a rookie
Mate Colina , Eggmolesse-Smith , Taylar Young , Bradtke , Sampson Ryan etc

Kane Lambert & Jake King were mature aged rookie success stories

I would rate Soldo as a Cat B success

We take players from every state , even thou we do seem to like WA

We've taken risks with players who are seen as a risk Stack & Pickett

at first under hardwick we did trade in something of list cloggers , they were bargain basement players
but as we started improving we have targeted quality players like Prestia , Caddy , Lynch , Grigg , Houli
Tarranto and Hopper are a work in progress

the likes of Baker & Broad weren't applauded here in their first two years , but don't we love them now

if we bottom out I'd say us or any club is a 40% chance of a 10 - 20 year prison sentence hanging around the bottom , with a couple of false dawns thrown in , I don't want to go there again in my life time

We are hanging our hopes on Gibcus , Sonsie , Ryan , Young , Clarke etc

we also need some of Green , Banks , Brown , Biggie to come thru

and looking at the VFL highlights from the weekend , a very brief cameo of Archie May , tall skinny and 18 , very much a long term project , but first thoughts were "oh hello :) "

keep doing what they , go everywhere and any where looking for talent
 
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Hopefully we beat Melbourne to put this thread to bed for awhile!!
 
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Excellent musings

If the class of 2021 (Sonsie, Gibcus et al,) work out and be 100-200 gamers we have hit the draft jackpot and won't damage too much our lack of high picks in 22 and 23. This is what the List Management would be banking on moving forward.

Have a look at the last 5 All Australian sides - 90 per cent of players were non top 10-15 selections.

Most 15-40 and alot of rookies - They are out there - Good recruiting will find them but more importantly good development will shape them

good obs
 
Excellent musings

If the class of 2021 (Sonsie, Gibcus et al,) work out and be 100-200 gamers we have hit the draft jackpot and won't damage too much our lack of high picks in 22 and 23. This is what the List Management would be banking on moving forward.

Have a look at the last 5 All Australian sides - 90 per cent of players were non top 10-15 selections.

Most 15-40 and alot of rookies - They are out there - Good recruiting will find them but more importantly good development will shape them

I reckon good development has a hell of a lot to do with this, we may have dropped off a little here too.

Need to go back to the philosophy of playing to our players' strengths and not trying to make them into something they aren't.

DS
 
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I bet at the end of 2016 this same thread appeared. And this is with Cotchin, Riewoldt, Martin and Rance on the books. Imagine if we followed this line on thinking back then and got rid of them?

Next minute we are premiers.

Sometimes you are already sitting on gold without actually knowing it.
The voice of reason!!! (thumbs up)

I love the way we've all conveniently forgotten that our team mentality, game plan and coaching up tick is responsible for our success (not individual brilliance (Dusty aside)....

Griggs, Rance, Houli and many others were our whipping boys..............

Now we laud them like lost heroes.....

IMHO - Lynch is easily Jack's equal. TBH (don't shoot the messenger) I still LUV Richo more than Jack ever!

Each player is simply part of a bigger equation

For flocks sake - Castagna is a three time premiership player

Let the MC do his job. Injuries are killing us. It's only Rd 5.

But talk that we should 'bottom out' is simply emotional clap clap

Love youse all
 
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I bet at the end of 2016 this same thread appeared. And this is with Cotchin, Riewoldt, Martin and Rance on the books. Imagine if we followed this line on thinking back then and got rid of them?

Next minute we are premiers.

Sometimes you are already sitting on gold without actually knowing it.
Just reading through some threads after the R23 smashing we copped from Swans in 2016 and noticed this from Rosy

We did know about 2017? It was hinted by Dimma in the post game presser too.

View attachment 18885
 
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to everyone pointing to rookie draft, mid-season draft, free agents, undercover spies, martha's marvellous op shop, i know and agree with all that.

what i am saying is you still need a dusting - just a sprinkle - of absolute gilt-edged talent

i look at sonsie and think maybe.

gibcus? yes.

taranto and hopper? good players but not flag deliverers.

we need one or two more. just saying. rance came from the second round - we will need to pull another one from our collective clacker if we are to be serious again
 
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to everyone pointing to rookie draft, mid-season draft, free agents, undercover spies, martha's marvellous op shop, i know and agree with all that.

what i am saying is you still need a dusting - just a sprinkle - of absolute gilt-edged talent

i look at sonsie and think maybe.

gibcus? yes.

taranto and hopper? good players but not flag deliverers.

we need one or two more. just saying. rance came from the second round - we will need to pull another one from our collective clacker if we are to be serious again
Carts you do realise Tarranto was taken at pick 2 in draft. You clearly don’t rate him as a match winner but what happens if we bottom out and we pick another Tarranto?

Moral of the story - bottoming out guarantees you diddly squat.
 
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We ain’t getting five star trades, we’re only getting the caliber of Taranto and Hopper. Good players but not the cream you need.
Jeebuzz.
You will regret these words I reckon.