Who do we keep on the list? Chol v Coleman-Jones

[leon]

Talk of 6 rucks on the list is a little misleading.
CCJ is our No3 tall forward.
Ryan is prob our no 4 (or No 5 behind Chol.)

We dont have any other young tall forwards.
Collina isnt even in the country, and hasnt played a game of football for years.
And Soldo will be coming back from an ACL- recovery almost always involves other injury.

I reckon we would keep them both if we could. But it wont be our choice.

Trying to find a way out of this dilemma, and to re-direct to my speculation that Soldo may be the weak link herein. As I said previously, "Will that knee recuperate to successfully carry that huge body-weight for a prolonged career? He doesn't seem to be recovering much at all."

So, I know he's currently on the LTI list. Can we move him over to the rookie list. I presume we would have to delist him and then hope/trust that no other club will take him?
Is that scenario even possible or plausible? I am just wondering how long it's going to be before he can play again, let alone whether he can make a full recovery. I know, it seems awfully harsh for him when he copped this injury playing for us, but also seems wasteful to have to lose one of either MB or CCJ when he shows little progress on recovery - still classified as indefinite on our injury list.

 

[tigersnake]

depends on the market.

 

[TigerMasochist]

What do you think we could trade Chol for?

Cholly's an unrestricted free agent so if someone makes him an offer he likes. He can simply walk. If three or four clubs make him an offer, he can pick the deal or club / location he likes most and still walk. If Cholly man loves us long time, he could ask the prospective new club to make us a fair n reasonable compo offer to keep everyone agreeable n happy.

 

[MB78]

CCJ for me. Can take the marks and force it to the ground as he won’t get out marked too often. Also would be a viable ruck with Nank and Soldo.

Chol is still not fit enough for AFL football. I don’t think he will ever have endurance to play as a ruck or hard running forward. And when he gets tired he is a lazy footballer.

 

[zippadeee]

I still can't get over how Chol gets to walk to who ever he wants for free.
We lose Ellis for a packet of chips.
Higgins for a late first rounder.
Markov for pick 65
Bulter for pick 75

Compare Collingwood after 2010.
First rounder for Wellingham
First rounder for Dawes
First rounder for Freeman
2nd rounder for Kennedy
Got first rounder compo for Thomas
Got a first rounder *Degoey and Crisp for finger painter Beams.

 

[leon]

I still can't get over how Chol gets to walk to who ever he wants for free.
We lose Ellis for a packet of chips.
Higgins for a late first rounder.
Markov for pick 65
Bulter for pick 75

Compare Collingwood after 2010.
First rounder for Wellingham
First rounder for Dawes
First rounder for Freeman
2nd rounder for Kennedy
Got first rounder compo for Thomas
Got a first rounder *Degoey and Crisp for finger painter Beams.

Yep, that's daylight robbery over and over. Colonwood players so over-rated. But that was after their flag and before they dudded Malthouse for Bucks. Ellis was an AFL rip-off. But other 3 were not first-choice players at that time unfortunately. Still absolutely cheated for value though.

If we wanted to keep Cholly, should have signed him to 2 years. More to the point, why have we listed 6 rucks? No way we can keep them all.

Must have planned and intended to do trades.

 

[zippadeee]

Yep, that's daylight robbery over and over. Colonwood players so over-rated. But that was after their flag and before they dudded Malthouse for Bucks. Ellis was an AFL rip-off. But other 3 were not first-choice players at that time unfortunately. Still absolutely cheated for value though.

If we wanted to keep Cholly, should have signed him to 2 years. More to the point, why have we listed 6 rucks? No way we can keep them all.

Must have planned and intended to do trades.

Neither were Seedsman, Freeman and Kennedy
All picks under 25.

 

[zippadeee]

Yep, that's daylight robbery over and over. Colonwood players so over-rated. But that was after their flag and before they dudded Malthouse for Bucks. Ellis was an AFL rip-off. But other 3 were not first-choice players at that time unfortunately. Still absolutely cheated for value though.

If we wanted to keep Cholly, should have signed him to 2 years. More to the point, why have we listed 6 rucks? No way we can keep them all.

Must have planned and intended to do trades.

Explain to me, isn't Chol signed today?
How can we have a player that isn't signed.
All I notice is that our list management is crap.
We have Riewodlt and Cotchin signed next year.
We have the brilliant Caddy signed for next year.
We have Prestia who can't stand up without getting injured signed up till 2087.
Why weren't Bolton, Cj and other
kids priority?
I can't bear to watch our kids walk to other clubs.
I want Tarranto or Green in October and it won't happen if we still have quality kids unsigned.

 

[Brodders17]

If we wanted to keep Cholly, should have signed him to 2 years. More to the point, why have we listed 6 rucks? No way we can keep them all.

Must have planned and intended to do trades.

We have 2 "rucks"- Nank and Soldo
We have 2 "KPFs"- Jack and Lynch
We have 1 ruck/KPF- Chol
We have 1 KPF/ruck- CCJ (at least at this stage of his career)
We have 1 KPF/Ruck (ruck/KPF?) who is probably a year away- Ryan
We have 1 ruck who will be lucky to be close to VFL standard next year- Collina

We are not overstocked in this area, and if we lose any we need to replace them, with at least KPF if not ruck options.
I actually reckon that is near perfect, numbers wise.

 

[Harry]

the state of Lynch's knee will determine whether we keep CJ

 

[French Tiger]

For next year Chol as he is a better 2nd ruck & 3rd tall forward.

For the year after if Jack has retired CCJ as he is the better 2nd tall forward out of the 2

But I guess that really doesn't answer the question.

 

[mrposhman]

We have 2 "rucks"- Nank and Soldo
We have 2 "KPFs"- Jack and Lynch
We have 1 ruck/KPF- Chol
We have 1 KPF/ruck- CCJ (at least at this stage of his career)
We have 1 KPF/Ruck (ruck/KPF?) who is probably a year away- Ryan
We have 1 ruck who will be lucky to be close to VFL standard next year- Collina

We are not overstocked in this area, and if we lose any we need to replace them, with at least KPF if not ruck options.
I actually reckon that is near perfect, numbers wise.

Also Colina is a Cat B rookie (the only 1 we have). If he wasn't on the list we wouldn't have a replacement instead so he's essentially a freebie on likely a small salary.

 

[momentai]

Is CJ contracted Brodders? I know Chol is out of contract this season.

CJ is definitely OOC end of this season, as is Marbs

It is not just about the money.... 3 of the last 4. .. Destination club.

Houli and possibly one or two other seniors to retire and Caddy to be moved on. New contracts for some but to be on less money, Jack?
It is possible to keep them both but the earlier unavailability of Nank / Soldo, has provided opportunities for both CJ and Chol, which otherwise may not have arisen. Both are now attractive to recruiters from other clubs, which without those opportunities would not have been the case.
I think the Club will look at it hard and resolve to keep one and sell the other.

The suggestion that instead we might trade Soldo seems a bit more problematic and in any event is unlikely to get past the ruck coach.

 

[AngryAnt]

CJ would seem to have more trade value given Chol is... dare I say it... an unrestricted free agent.

 

[French Tiger]

CJ would seem to have more trade value given Chol is... dare I say it... an unrestricted free agent.

Might come down to this , lose CCJ most likely a late 1st rounder , Chol we get nothing , might force our hand.

 

[leon]

We have 2 "rucks"- Nank and Soldo
We have 2 "KPFs"- Jack and Lynch
We have 1 ruck/KPF- Chol
We have 1 KPF/ruck- CCJ (at least at this stage of his career)
We have 1 KPF/Ruck (ruck/KPF?) who is probably a year away- Ryan
We have 1 ruck who will be lucky to be close to VFL standard next year- Collina

We are not overstocked in this area, and if we lose any we need to replace them, with at least KPF if not ruck options.
I actually reckon that is near perfect, numbers wise.

No quibbles with your specific breakdown, agree. However, you well know clubs need anyone still standing and (preferably 2m tall) to run out and play ruck when a spate of injuries strike. Also agree our club has shown great IQ and prudence. Although so far, we have never needed Ryan or Collina to represent the club as No.1 ruck. A task well beyond them presently, so these two can be regarded as insurance - future investments. It's always wise to have insurance and do future planning.

You can compare it very favorably to other clubs without adequate ruck stocks, like GCS currently, and consequently such clubs will be desperate to boost them next draft and trade period. I think my contention holds true. We are well/over stocked, however you want to call it or break it down.

We almost certainly know we cannot keep them all. Hence CCJ and MC out of contract ... and this whole thread recognises this fact too.

We will very likely have to trade one of above ... or do something different with Soldo who looks incapacitated for a fair while yet. TBF, it's been very hard to evaluate Chol's value and capability going forward. He has confounded his critics often but still not a convincing ruckman perhaps.

 

[leon]

Explain to me, isn't Chol signed today?
How can we have a player that isn't signed.
All I notice is that our list management is crap.
We have Riewodlt and Cotchin signed next year.
We have the brilliant Caddy signed for next year.
We have Prestia who can't stand up without getting injured signed up till 2087.
Why weren't Bolton, Cj and other
kids priority?
I can't bear to watch our kids walk to other clubs.
I want Tarranto or Green in October and it won't happen if we still have quality kids unsigned.

Simple answer, Zips. No-one including our LM team has a crystal ball. Can't know what the future holds with injuries and form, rapid improvement or decline. Can only make what seem the vital decisions at the time.

We are bloody good overall, not over-paying many players or over-extending contracts. Compare us with Colonwood. Grundy for 7 years @$1m.

Just Dusty and Tom on huge $$. Maybe Lynch doubtful value long-term. Probably some of our role-players got contracts inflated, but that's down to winning 3/4 flags over 4 years.
That's a price we are prepared to pay I reckon.

 

[leon]

It is not just about the money.... 3 of the last 4. .. Destination club.

Houli and possibly one or two other seniors to retire and Caddy to be moved on. New contracts for some but to be on less money, Jack?
It is possible to keep them both but the earlier unavailability of Nank / Soldo, has provided opportunities for both CJ and Chol, which otherwise may not have arisen. Both are now attractive to recruiters from other clubs, which without those opportunities would not have been the case.
I think the Club will look at it hard and resolve to keep one and sell the other.

The suggestion that instead we might trade Soldo seems a bit more problematic and in any event is unlikely to get past the ruck coach.

Yes, agree. But if we planned this, it was not that clever to allow them both OOC. How do we ensure we can trade/sell one? We cannot even ensure we don't lose both for very little. If clubs don't want to offer fair deals, both players can just walk out in the PSD, right?

I, for one, never suggested that instead we might trade Soldo. How could we trade him currently; how certain is to get back near 100% after his ACL? Just asked if we should look at an alternative such as getting him back on the rookie list.

 

[DavidSSS]

Having too many rucks may end up being enlightened, rucks have been devalued over the years but the way the game is going at the moment the position seems to be gaining in importance.

DS

 

[Tigers2011]

Having too many rucks may end up being enlightened, rucks have been devalued over the years but the way the game is going at the moment the position seems to be gaining in importance.

DS

Agree - and we should always play two of them. Handier still if one or both can play forward when needed.