Welcome to Tigers: Jason Castagna

[tigerlove]

Menzel didn’t play against us in that final, as he doesn’t put on enough pressure... and although he did kick a couple of goals the following week when recalled, his lack of pressure once again was scrutinised.

Would love to have a stat on how many marking contests George has halved - this is his true value to the team. As I’ve said before, best sub 6ft CHF in the comp.

Yes Menzel is very one dimensional, not sure if that's because of the 4 knee reconstructions but Geelong put him up for trade last year and there was no interest. He signed for 1 year at $200K apparently. Despite his deficiencies I'd have Catagna over Menzel. Is much better suited to our game plan anyway.

 

[tigerlove]

So, and this may shock you, but I want my players to get the ball, keep it, use it well and score. Dominate possession and effective offence. Because who scores the most wins.

Just simply not our game plan. We are happy to give the opposition first touch, we've been close to the bottom of the clearance count the last 4 years. Then we pressure, pressure , pressure, turnover, score. We don't get as many disposals because we play a longer game. Interestingly both Eagles and Tigers are towards the bottom of this list yet sit #1 and #2 on the ladder. It did not fuss me at all that Geelong had alot more possession. They also had loads more handballs going backwards and sideways whilst under extreme pressure. All the hoo ha about how many disposals Danger and Selwood had yet who won the game and was for most of it in complete control? I prefer to see Cotch get 100+ pressure acts than 38 possessions with 15 of those 1-2s and cheap receives running behind our players with the ball.

 

[MD Jazz]

Im more than happy to evaluate him if you need a hand leon.

Just let me know ;D

:hihi

Yeh, there's not much think music needed over that question.

 

[Leysy Days]

Ok, maybe I'd take Menzel but I can't evaluate him adequately at present. That's because he hasn't actually played many games against us recently. Either out injured, or Scott refused to play him against us in that 2017 final when he was coming back from injury. Then didn't he kick a few in the final against the Crows?
He's certainly injury prone and his career has been marred by those awful knee issues.

Very different players, different strengths. Menzel is a far more deadly kick though, while George tackles and applies greater pressure ... by a long way. But note Menzel wins both more CPs and UPs. If you look at the Footywire comparison, it's not so clear-cut as your bias leads you to think.

If they were both at my club, I'd choose based on fitness, recent form and the rest of the FL make-up/mix. It's not so definitive for me.

Think this just about sums it up.

The fact you cannot unequivocally put a line through Menzel over George shows you have no idea of the real reasons and drivers behind our success.

Realise it will fall on deaf ears, so this is more for the general reader out there, but pressure on the opposition has the key reason for our success since 2017. It won us a flag.

How did this change - ACTIONS and BUY IN.

The coach needs to back up his message with selection. Without exception. If a player doesn't place a premium on the defensive ethos of his and the teams game he will not play. Simple. No exception. Break that and the whole belief in what the coaches message is gone.

This is also backed up right through to our recruiting. Why do you think nearly every selection in recent years (including talls) has the ability to run hard and long.


It's also why our captain is the best in the country. He could go back to getting 30+ touches like Dangerfield last week at the click of his fingers and be lauded by the Leonie's of the world. But he doesn't. Why?

Because he places a premium on making his possessions count and not ignoring the defensive part of his game. He had the highest amount of pressure points (plus 9 tackles) of any player in the entire league last week.

His teammates would be looking at him and going "*smile*, he is one of the most talented footballers in the country, yet he tackles and harasses like a man possessed. sh!t I need to do that to if I want to get a game".

When our captain looks his team in the eye and asks for a supreme effort, they will walk the plank with him far more than any other leader, because they know he is completely selfless for team success.

Do you also wonder why we lose clearances, yet always have a heap more inside 50's. Pressure from everyone without exception.

It is also why if Daniel Menzel was delisted at the end of this year, there is absolutely ZERO chance we draft him, even with the last pick in the rookie draft. Because he is an exception.

From your posts you just don't understand that, and it is why you don't understand the core reasoning for the change in our fortunes and our current success.

 

[TigerMasochist]

Think this just about sums it up.

The fact you cannot unequivocally put a line through Menzel over George shows you have no idea of the real reasons and drivers behind our success.

Realise it will fall on deaf ears, so this is more for the general reader out there, but pressure on the opposition has the key reason for our success since 2017. It won us a flag.

How did this change - ACTIONS and BUY IN.

The coach needs to back up his message with selection. Without exception. If a player doesn't place a premium on the defensive ethos of his and the teams game he will not play. Simple. No exception. Break that and the whole belief in what the coaches message is gone.

This is also backed up right through to our recruiting. Why do you think nearly every selection in recent years (including talls) has the ability to run hard and long.


It's also why our captain is the best in the country. He could go back to getting 30+ touches like Dangerfield last week at the click of his fingers. But he doesn't. Why?

Because he places a premium on making his possessions count and not ignoring the defensive part of his game. He had the highest amount of pressure points (plus 9 tackles) of any player in the entire league last week.

His teammates would be looking at him and going "*smile*, he is one of the most talented footballers in the country, yet he tackles and harasses like a man possessed. sh!t I need to do that to if I want to get a game".

When our captain looks his team in the eye and asks for a supreme effort, they will walk the plank with him far more than any other leader, because they know he is completely selfless for team success.

Do you also wonder why we lose clearances, yet always have a heap more inside 50's. Pressure from everyone without exception.

It is also why if Daniel Menzel was delisted at the end of this year, there is absolutely ZERO chance we draft him, even with the last pick in the rookie draft.

From your posts you just don't understand that, and it is why you don't understand the core reasoning for the change in our fortunes and our current success.

Reckon that just about covers the core of everything we're doing Leysy.

One of the simplest n most achievable strategies in the comp n every other club is struggling to counter it. Doesn't rely on talent or fancy game tactics, it relies on team integrity n work ethic, which then allows the talent to shine through as a result.

 

[Baron Samedi]

And the winner is ....

LEYSY!!!

Top post mate

 

[tigerman]

Think this just about sums it up.

The fact you cannot unequivocally put a line through Menzel over George shows you have no idea of the real reasons and drivers behind our success.

Realise it will fall on deaf ears, so this is more for the general reader out there, but pressure on the opposition has the key reason for our success since 2017. It won us a flag.

How did this change - ACTIONS and BUY IN.

The coach needs to back up his message with selection. Without exception. If a player doesn't place a premium on the defensive ethos of his and the teams game he will not play. Simple. No exception. Break that and the whole belief in what the coaches message is gone.

This is also backed up right through to our recruiting. Why do you think nearly every selection in recent years (including talls) has the ability to run hard and long.


It's also why our captain is the best in the country. He could go back to getting 30+ touches like Dangerfield last week at the click of his fingers. But he doesn't. Why?

Because he places a premium on making his possessions count and not ignoring the defensive part of his game. He had the highest amount of pressure points (plus 9 tackles) of any player in the entire league last week.

His teammates would be looking at him and going "*smile*, he is one of the most talented footballers in the country, yet he tackles and harasses like a man possessed. sh!t I need to do that to if I want to get a game".

When our captain looks his team in the eye and asks for a supreme effort, they will walk the plank with him far more than any other leader, because they know he is completely selfless for team success.

Do you also wonder why we lose clearances, yet always have a heap more inside 50's. Pressure from everyone without exception.

It is also why if Daniel Menzel was delisted at the end of this year, there is absolutely ZERO chance we draft him, even with the last pick in the rookie draft.

From your posts you just don't understand that, and it is why you don't understand the core reasoning for the change in our fortunes and our current success.

You've hit the nail dead centre LD.

 

[bullus_hit]

And the winner is ....

LEYSY!!!

Top post mate

Leysy was also a winner with Andy Collins, Casboult, Yarran, holding Deledio & labeling Dimma a crap coach. :spin

I think many have bought into the line that Castagna is so unique he's virtually irreplaceable, this is absurd to me when in the same breath people talk about 21 others applying the same sort of pressure. I'd love to see George polish his goal kicking but if he can't then we should be looking elsewhere, simples.

 

[leon]

Menzel didn’t play against us in that final, as he doesn’t put on enough pressure... and although he did kick a couple of goals the following week when recalled, his lack of pressure once again was scrutinised.

Would love to have a stat on how many marking contests George has halved - this is his true value to the team. As I’ve said before, best sub 6ft CHF in the comp.

Halving the marking contests?! :rofl :rofl

This demonstrates the woolly thinking and nonsense jargon some fans have fallen into, probably influenced by other "authoritative-seeming" posters! Why would you not value taking the mark more? Sure spoil if that's the best/only option but a ground-ball is not a guaranteed possession to the offensive side in F50, whereas a mark is, with a possible shot at goal following.

Did you even look at the Footywire comparison? Menzel averages 4.4 marks p/g to JC's 3.1 and (what a surprise!) 1.9 to 1.1 goals, so near double. He also wins on goal assists and just on I50s, contested marks doubled, plus CPs and UPs, well clear on EDs and DE%.

Team pressure matters but different players bring different skill-sets that make a crucial difference, like Short for us with his powerful kicking out of the BL. If you looked closer at the Colonwood and Moggies games, both opposition clubs have increased their PPs. Of course, they're trying hard to bridge that discrepancy. We beat them by bigger margins in previous matches.

 

[Leysy Days]

Leysy was also a winner with Andy Collins, Casboult, Yarran, holding Deledio & labeling Dimma a crap coach. :spin

Wow. Drive by.

Not sure of any relevance of bringing up stuff we have got wrong over the years. Cant even recall Lids.

Could equally name a heap leysy has got right and definately yourself wrong.

Dont' really see the point.

 

[Baron Samedi]

Agree Leysy, it is a bit of a cop out. Bully is an excellent poster but has let himself down there.

 

[easy_tiger]

This demonstrates the woolly thinking and nonsense jargon some fans have fallen into, probably influenced by other "authoritative-seeming" posters!

put me down for wooly thinking, nonsense jargon fallen, authoritative-seeming please Leon.

I went back and worked really hard on my authoritative-seeming through the 2016 season,

most of the nonsense jargon i fell for is from the 80's and 90's, but I can switch to the fat side fairly comfortably.

Im just pleased to play a role within the team.

 

[bullus_hit]

Not sure of any relevance of bringing up stuff we have got wrong over the years. Cant even recall Lids.

Could equally name a heap leysy has got right and definately yourself wrong. Loads.

Dont' really see the point.

Just more a comment about the way you rally the troops around (very often outnumbering the naysayers) & then wind up with egg on the face. The fact that you were so adamant we needed Casboult last year & now you present an argument which basically refutes everything you pushed for in 2017. Both myself & Leon have hardly been disparaging about George, just some acknowledgement that he has flaws & still requires improvement. Every time I've mentioned a player as a yardstick (and some decent talent) it's the ol' don't argue, George is unique line (mosty done to avoid statistical scrutiny). Then you chime in with the Lambert comparison which is just odd considering you've spent the last 12 pages pushing Castagna's CHB credentials.

Obviously time to leave this thread, but I do hope Castagna gets the radar working in September, failure to do so puts us in a more vulnerable position.

 

[jb03]

Leysy was also a winner with Andy Collins, Casboult, Yarran, holding Deledio & labeling Dimma a crap coach. :spin

I think many have bought into the line that Castagna is so unique he's virtually irreplaceable, this is absurd to me when in the same breath people talk about 21 others applying the same sort of pressure. I'd love to see George polish his goal kicking but if he can't then we should be looking elsewhere, simples.

Gee, you've let him off the hook with Danny Meyer.

 

[leon]

Just more a comment about the way you rally the troops around (very often outnumbering the naysayers) & then wind up with egg on the face. The fact that you were so adamant we needed Casboult last year & now you present an argument which basically refutes everything you pushed for in 2017. Both myself & Leon have hardly been disparaging about George, just some acknowledgement that he has flaws & still requires improvement. Every time I've mentioned a player as a yardstick (and some decent talent) it's the ol' don't argue, George is unique line (mosty done to avoid statistical scrutiny). Then you chime in with the Lambert comparison which is just odd considering you've spent the last 12 pages pushing Castagna's CHB credentials.

Obviously time to leave this thread, but I do hope Castagna gets the radar working in September, failure to do so puts us in a more vulnerable position.

As usual, an articulate, honest and apt response, Bullus. Anyone with a little perception can see that Leysey has walked well away from his original excessively flattering comments re Castagna being our great CHF and so 'specialllllllll'. Yer, it was very Bruce-like at his sickening best, and made me cringe ... about a young player with some fine qualities but with a long way to go, naturally, at 22 and with about 40 games at the time.

He's fudging and sliding, ducking, diving and weaving with a rallying speech to the gullible troops about pressure and its amazing role in our team ... because none of us know anything about that. My Gawd! It's mind-blowing. Over 2017-18 seasons, I just had no idea this was at all a factor in footy ... ever? We can be ever-grateful to HDL for his profound enlightenment about its existence in the game!! I have never seen anyone else identify this in any form of AFL media ... ever ... until now! [Please play Allelluias at this point on full volume]

Then we have his further smoke-screening with how it's now about Dimma, buy-in, selection (was that policy, as you spelt it out so knowledgeably, applied to JC after GWS game though, incidentally, HDL?), Cotchin. That's been so illuminating too. Just never understood. So lucky to have HDL fill me in.

Overall, after reading all that he's posted, I feel like I've just escaped from one of those fundamentalist, evangelical Christian (substitute RFC) recruiting missions. Phew! It was so convincing and ... original. Nearly had me for a split second. Did he even mention Castagna?

Just what has it got to do with the specific issue we have responded to? [See bold above for those still unsure].

Great fudging effort, HDL. Really fooled some. I was going to go back and respond to that original post of yours, but why waste any more of my time, since you are now apparently in denial. This response and Bullus' is all that needs to be said. But one little piece of advice: just because something worked in 2017, doesn't guarantee it to succeed in 2018. Time moves forward. Evolution occurs, rapidly in AFL. Any remote possibility that forward-line inefficiency could be our Achilles Heel? Just to help you out:

Richmond I50s = 68. Geelong = 46. Result = RFC by 3 pts. (and Ablett missed).

PS - Any chance Menzel's multiple ACLs would have affected clubs' interest?
PPS - Thanks for all that condescending and patronising too. Not wasted on me for a moment.

 

[leon]

put me down for wooly thinking, nonsense jargon fallen, authoritative-seeming please Leon.

I went back and worked really hard on my authoritative-seeming through the 2016 season,

most of the nonsense jargon i fell for is from the 80's and 90's, but I can switch to the fat side fairly comfortably.

Im just pleased to play a role within the team.

No need to ask. Long ago. Particularly like the train-set analogies.

 

[Baloo]

Gee, you've let him off the hook with Danny Meyer.

yeah, was just thinking that.

 

[leon]

Gee, you've let him off the hook with Danny Meyer.

I think it's a pretty long list! Taxes the memory. Actually was going to call Leysy the 'Kiss of Death' for George after the GWS game, and 7 points in a row, but luckily he wasn't dropped. A decision I agreed with at the time, just. It happened to BEllis and KMac though, and helped them improve form.

Leysy's stamp of flattery, approval, is a scary proposition.

 

[Baron Samedi]

It’s all sorted then.

Leon would take Menzel over Castagna.

Leon ... lol

 

[leon]

And the winner is ....

LEYSY!!!

Top post mate

It's really sweet to see such great football minds in harmony. Cute.