Welcome to Tigerland - Tim Taranto

[bullus_hit]

I preferred this thread when two or three posters had us all cutting our wrists about signing TT and JH and how we’d sold the future when, in all reality, we were actually buying it.

It wouldn't be a normal PRE year without a Redford backhander, once again my comments misconstrued & twisted, never once did I suggest Taranto was a poor footballer (ditto for Hopper) but with the club on the verge of coughing up a top 10 pick and missing out on finals let's revisit in 4 years shall we. And I've duly noted your revisionism in the past, particularly with regards to Brown & Johnson, when the case is closed you are more than happy to switch sides. Same with Spook who has the audacity to make up fake trades in my name and then has the gall to help himself to extra picks in the PRE Phantom draft.

 

[mrposhman]

It wouldn't be a normal PRE year without a Redford backhander, once again my comments misconstrued & twisted, never once did I suggest Taranto was a poor footballer (ditto for Hopper) but with the club on the verge of coughing up a top 10 pick and missing out on finals let's revisit in 4 years shall we. And I've duly noted your revisionism in the past, particularly with regards to Brown & Johnson, when the case is closed you are more than happy to switch sides. Same with Spook who has the audacity to make up fake trades in my name and then has the gall to help himself to extra picks in the PRE Phantom draft.

But Bullus, whenn discussing you need to get the trades right. We didn't trade a top 10 pick for TT. We traded 14 and 23 in the 2022 draft. Thats fact. The 1st rounder was traded for Hopper.

I doubt there is anyone out there that would say they would prefer 14 and 23 over Taranto (though I suspect Cornes would have a good crack at it).

 

[TigerFurious]

150 better players in the league, 150 better players,
He chased one down and tackled them to the ground, now there’s only 149 better players in the league.

 

[bullus_hit]

But Bullus, whenn discussing you need to get the trades right. We didn't trade a top 10 pick for TT. We traded 14 and 23 in the 2022 draft. Thats fact. The 1st rounder was traded for Hopper.

I doubt there is anyone out there that would say they would prefer 14 and 23 over Taranto (though I suspect Cornes would have a good crack at it).

My argument has always been entwined with Mitchell and the draft picks, this is yet another example of half quoting & obscuring the bigger picture. Like I've said many times, Taranto & Hopper will be serviceable, much like the contribution Kane Johnson made to the club, but the opportunity cost was Daniel Wells in that particular instance, a net loss when the curtain closed on their respective careers.

Now let me put it to you this way, do you think Collingwood are crying about stitching up Mitchell instead of Taranto?

 

[Tig3]

My argument has always been entwined with Mitchell and the draft picks, this is yet another example of half quoting & obscuring the bigger picture. Like I've said many times, Taranto & Hopper will be serviceable, much like the contribution Kane Johnson made to the club, but the opportunity cost was Daniel Wells in that particular instance, a net loss when the curtain closed on their respective careers.

Now let me put it to you this way, do you think Collingwood are crying about stitching up Mitchell instead of Taranto?

Mitchell has 1 coaches vote in 7 wins, Taranto is top 20 on the leaderboard with 23 and we’ve had 2 wins. (Hopper has 10 votes). So yeh, Mitchell might give them a couple of years of decent service but there’s a reason they only went for Mitchell late and it’s because they missed out on Taranto…..

 

[bullus_hit]

Mitchell has 1 coaches vote in 7 wins, Taranto is top 20 on the leaderboard with 23 and we’ve had 2 wins. (Hopper has 10 votes). So yeh, Mitchell might give them a couple of years of decent service but there’s a reason they only went for Mitchell late and it’s because they missed out on Taranto…..

Mitchell has a truckload more competition for votes if that's your sole yardstick, he is also still vying for silverware which may come to fruition. With the benefit of hindsight I daresay Collingwood would be very pleased with the how the situation has unfolded, Jakob Ryan looks promising and they would have also have needed to cough up a future first in all likelihood.

As for Hopper, would you still do the deal knowing it would cost a pick in the 4-10 range?

 

[Tig3]

Mitchell has a truckload more competition for votes if that's your sole yardstick, he is also still vying for silverware which may come to fruition. With the benefit of hindsight I daresay Collingwood would be very pleased with the how the situation has unfolded, Jakob Ryan looks promising and they would have also have needed to cough up a future first in all likelihood.

As for Hopper, would you still do the deal knowing it would cost a pick in the 4-10 range?

Yeh I probably would. Apart from Tarrant who we gave up peanuts for, we haven’t traded in a player since 2016. We needed midfielders in that age bracket, and we got two very good ones. They will be the link between our older premiership players and the kids coming through. Taranto at this early stage looks like a bargain anyway

 

[bullus_hit]

Yeh I probably would. Apart from Tarrant who we gave up peanuts for, we haven’t traded in a player since 2016. We needed midfielders in that age bracket, and we got two very good ones. They will be the link between our older premiership players and the kids coming through. Taranto at this early stage looks like a bargain anyway

Do you believe we'll be playing finals over the next few years? If the answer is no then I fail to see any logical argument for selling a top 10 pick in a particularly strong draft, one which looks like producing a similar batch to 2018. It could well be an elusive tall forward or at worst, a well rounded midfielder. Both Hopper & Taranto may never see finals action if we're being brutally honest about the state of the list, it's a recipe for middling & chasing tail. The three cups in the cabinet are the result of blue chip drafting and astute trading, that seems to have been forgotten in the desperation to follow the highly contentious Geelong model of list management.

 

[Redford]

It wouldn't be a normal PRE year without a Redford backhander, once again my comments misconstrued & twisted, never once did I suggest Taranto was a poor footballer (ditto for Hopper) but with the club on the verge of coughing up a top 10 pick and missing out on finals let's revisit in 4 years shall we. And I've duly noted your revisionism in the past, particularly with regards to Brown & Johnson, when the case is closed you are more than happy to switch sides. Same with Spook who has the audacity to make up fake trades in my name and then has the gall to help himself to extra picks in the PRE Phantom draft.

And it wouldn’t be a normal year without you complaining - be it about what the club’s done contrary to your suggested strategies, or other posters opinions.

 

[Tig3]

Do you believe we'll be playing finals over the next few years? If the answer is no then I fail to see any logical argument for selling a top 10 pick in a particularly strong draft, one which looks like producing a similar batch to 2018. It could well be an elusive tall forward or at worst, a well rounded midfielder. Both Hopper & Taranto may never see finals action if we're being brutally honest about the state of the list, it's a recipe for middling & chasing tail. The three cups in the cabinet are the result of blue chip drafting and astute trading, that seems to have been forgotten in the desperation to follow the highly contentious Geelong model of list management.

“Blue chip drafting”? Have you seen the amount of late picks/rookies who have brought us success, and who we are still bringing in year upon year? If anything we’ve been more hit and miss with our first rounders than our late picks! My outlook on our club is nowhere near as bleak as yours.

Look, I really don’t want to argue, we don’t see eye to eye so let’s leave it at that

 

[bullus_hit]

And it wouldn’t be a normal year for you to not be complaining - be it about what the club’s done contrary to your suggested strategies, or other posters opinions.

Four months ago you were promoting premierships, I think I've been a little more accurate than you lot will ever acknowledge.

 

[tigertime2]

Hopper is an upgrade on Tom Mitchell.

 

[bullus_hit]

“Blue chip drafting”? Have you seen the amount of late picks/rookies who have brought us success, and who we are still bringing in year upon year? If anything we’ve been more hit and miss with our first rounders than our late picks! My outlook on our club is nowhere near as bleak as yours.

Look, I really don’t want to argue, we don’t see eye to eye so let’s leave it at that

Jackson laid the foundations with top 20 picks, that's just reality, he also left a huge amount of trading capital to fix other issues.

 

[bullus_hit]

Hopper is an upgrade on Tom Mitchell.

With the opportunity cost being a top 10 pick I struggle to see the logic in this argument.

 

[Redford]

Four months ago you were promoting premierships, I think I've been a little more accurate than you lot will ever acknowledge.

Dunno if I promoted premierships ? Would be strange if I did given I had us finishing 7th in mainlandy’s predict the ladder competition (same as I selected last year). But even if I did, so what ? I - and I suspect most of PRE - had no problems with the club’s last throw of the dice with TT and JH combined with a near end group of premiership players. Not an impossible equation. Happy to back the club in having a last go at it. That’s what the club exists for.

But you seem distraught by it which is bizarre because even if it doesn’t work out, we have 2 very good midfielders to bring young kids in, and be supported by, for the next 7 years. Not withstanding the risk of injuries, those two players have shown enough to suggest it was a win-win approach either way by the club.

Well done Richmond in my mind.

 

[Tig3]

Hopper is an upgrade on Tom Mitchell.

Genuinely see Hopper as Captain material. Taranto wouldn’t be out of place either

 

[Willo]

My argument has always been entwined with Mitchell and the draft picks, this is yet another example of half quoting & obscuring the bigger picture. Like I've said many times, Taranto & Hopper will be serviceable, much like the contribution Kane Johnson made to the club, but the opportunity cost was Daniel Wells in that particular instance, a net loss when the curtain closed on their respective careers.

Now let me put it to you this way, do you think Collingwood are crying about stitching up Mitchell instead of Taranto?

Who said Tom Mitchell even wanted to come to us?

 

[Tig3]

Who said Tom Mitchell even wanted to come to us?

The last thing we needed was another 30 (this month) year old midfielder

 

[TigerMasochist]

that seems to have been forgotten in the desperation to follow the highly contentious Geelong model of list management.

Geezus H Christ in a billy cart bullus. 2007, 2009, 2011, 2022 with finals including Prelims and a losing Granny in every year between bar one, plus a few finals years before they hit flags. That's hardly what anyone would ever deem to be a contentious never mind " highly " contentious list management model. Probably contending again this year the way they're going at present.

Much as I hate the bastards, they'd be the rolled gold foundation stone of list management over the last twenty years.

 

[Sintiger]

Who said Tom Mitchell even wanted to come to us?

This is what a lot of fansite list managers forget (not having a go at any individuals on here or referring to Tom Mitchell in particular, it is a general comment about trading commentary you see on lots of fansites and other social media)

It is easy to say we should have got player x or y when you are sitting behind a keyboard but the list managers actually have to go out and do the deal. There are a lots of factors that go into where a player goes and wants to go as well as judgements about things like cultural fit, settling families etc that we know nothing about