Welcome to Tigerland - Tim Taranto

[bullus_hit]

Who said things are gangbusters?? Who's cherry-picking stats? Who's trying to justify anything? (We should be 3-2, by the way.)

You've taken a position that will be very easy for you to claim you were right. If we don't win a flag you will say you were right. You will ignore our mountainous injury list as a factor, or cite it as a function of an ageing list and argue that's why we should have brought in a 30-year-old and an expensive 29-year-old injury-struck ruckman instead of two mids entering their primes in an age bracket we had a gaping chasm. It'll be the club got it wrong and you got it right.

Maybe many of us fans expected Taranto + Hopper = flag, after all if we'd had them last year we might well have won it. But Jack was right when he said we recruited them to give us a midfield while we transition. We had a shy at the stumps for a last dynasty flag, but with most of the eye to the next gen. They will be around in five years. Mitchell and Grundy won't. And in those five years they will protect our kids while they develop.

You want shiny new draft picks. Everyone does. But our list would have been completely out of balance, for years. Stop fussing about pick whatever we gave up. We gave up picks in the range we'd previously picked Jarhead, Lennon, RCD, Coleman-Jones and Dow. Not blue-chip selections. We got two top-7 picks. We got five kids the year before, at least one of whom looks top 5 quality and another top 10-15. Forget the numbers. Look at the talent.

Mitchell could have provided the same service as Taranto, including shielding the kids. It's interesting that Collingwood were struggling for clearances too, they fixed that problem with minimal outlay. Blaming injuries is also poor form, Grundy was canvassed to give Nank support not supplant him from his lofty spiritual leader perch. The commentary relating to Grundy as a footballer has also been eye opening, only on PRE do you get such polarised assessments. This I put down to a premiership hangover and also a bit of hero worshipping, Hartley can do no wrong of course, much like the build-up to the Yarran fiasco, probably the lowest ebb if we're talking a Richmond Man set of ideals.

These are not just numbers either, Hewett & Cowan will be contributing a truckload more in 3 years time, their progression counterbalances an outgoing Mitchell. Only a Richmond supporter would take Hopper over a top 10 pick & Keeler, big chance you sort out the forward line in one draft.

 

[spook]

Mitchell could have provided the same service as Taranto

Not for five years he couldn't. Not in transition running for five minutes he couldn't. Mitchell's lack of run is covered by Collingwood's abundance of it.

Blaming injuries is also poor form,

No it's not. Anyway, I'm not blaming them, I'm acknowledging them. Lynch, Nank, Short, Graham, Soldo and the suspended Broad makes six senior players in their primes out of a side that is now out of balance with kids and pensioners. Plus the senior stop-gap Tarrant and the wonderkid Gibcus. Facts.

Grundy was canvassed to give Nank support not supplant him from his lofty spiritual leader perch. The commentary relating to Grundy as a footballer has also been eye opening, only on PRE do you get such polarised assessments. This I put down to a premiership hangover and also a bit of hero worshipping, Hartley can do no wrong of course, much like the build-up to the Yarran fiasco, probably the lowest ebb if we're talking a Richmond Man set of ideals.

I have no idea what you're on about here.

Hewett & Cowan will be contributing a truckload more in 3 years time, their progression counterbalances an outgoing Mitchell.

Let's see. Hewett and Cowan at 21 going on 22. With no Taranto, Hopper or Mitchell. Leading the midfield? Cowan is a half-back-flanker. So you've got a 22-year-old Hewett leading our 2026 midfield, with Sonsie, and who else? Wilderness.

Only a Richmond supporter would take Hopper over a top 10 pick & Keeler, big chance you sort out the forward line in one draft.

Hopper was a top-10 pick. Who would you hope to get with said top-10 pick? A Josh Ward type?

So you've written off the season, huh? We're done?

 

[mrposhman]

So you've written off the season, huh? We're done?

It would seem so. For me this season is wide open, probably as wide open as we have seen for a long long time. Yes we have started poorly in general, and other than a few periods of play, we haven't been blown away at all. The 3rd quarter against Adelaide, the last 10 mins against Sydney were awful, but taking those away, we have been competitive against very good teams. We have the toughest first 6 rounds in the AFL (matched with the Dogs - who are 1/2 a win in front of us at this stage).

It won't take a lot for this to potentially change to the upside. A lot on here are very negative at the moment, but as I said last week, its never as bad as it seems. We have certainly been the catalyst to this downfall in the first 5 rounds, our disposal, particularly out of the back half has been atrocious, particularly in the last 2 rounds. Broady seems like he is the glue that helps our defense to stick together and we get him back in 1 game.

We will, likely struggle this week, but we aren't as far away as what people think we are IMO. Maybe I'm wrong, but I don't see our "pick" at the end of this year being top 10. Maybe its 11 or 12 and we miss finals, but I don't see it being a top 10.

Its funny how people are writing off Taranto and Hopper after we've played 5 games. Plenty of chance to leave some egg on faces in here, and to go to Bullys point, would I prefer Hopper or a player 11 or 12 in this years draft, I'm taking Hopper.

 

[fastin bulbous]

He’s easily our leading player for pressure acts and tackles and third in the comp for both stats

I stand corrected @monsab and sliced and diced

 

[17]

Taranto is having a crack & winning the footy but geez his kicking is diabolical. That ball drop..

BUT I remember when Prestia arrived in his first year & I thought pretty much the same thing.

As did I.
Turned out Prestia's was injury related.
Don't think we can say the same for Taranto.
Although I think we can for Hopper.

 

[bullus_hit]

Its funny how people are writing off Taranto and Hopper after we've played 5 games. Plenty of chance to leave some egg on faces in here, and to go to Bullys point, would I prefer Hopper or a player 11 or 12 in this years draft, I'm taking Hopper.

I'm not 'writing them off', I always acknowledged their footballing credentials but the price we paid was off the charts considering we're currently sitting at 13th and on the cusp of coughing up a top 5 pick. Geelong passes us, so that's our current predicament. The pick in question is some sort of chance to land a forward, Curtin moving up the charts just one in the frame.

 

[mrposhman]

I'm not 'writing them off, I always acknowledged their footballing credentials but the price we paid was off the charts considering we're currently sitting at 13th and on the cusp of coughing up a top 5 pick. Geelong passes us, so that's our current predicament. The pick in question is some sort of chance to land a forward, Curtin moving up the charts just one in the frame.

You are clearly writing off our season after 5 rounds though. Its a long season, 18 games still to be played. You are making out like its a guaranteed top 5 pick which is far from guaranteed.

 

[spook]

It would seem so. For me this season is wide open, probably as wide open as we have seen for a long long time. Yes we have started poorly in general, and other than a few periods of play, we haven't been blown away at all. The 3rd quarter against Adelaide, the last 10 mins against Sydney were awful, but taking those away, we have been competitive against very good teams. We have the toughest first 6 rounds in the AFL (matched with the Dogs - who are 1/2 a win in front of us at this stage).

It won't take a lot for this to potentially change to the upside. A lot on here are very negative at the moment, but as I said last week, its never as bad as it seems. We have certainly been the catalyst to this downfall in the first 5 rounds, our disposal, particularly out of the back half has been atrocious, particularly in the last 2 rounds. Broady seems like he is the glue that helps our defense to stick together and we get him back in 1 game.

We will, likely struggle this week, but we aren't as far away as what people think we are IMO. Maybe I'm wrong, but I don't see our "pick" at the end of this year being top 10. Maybe its 11 or 12 and we miss finals, but I don't see it being a top 10.

Its funny how people are writing off Taranto and Hopper after we've played 5 games. Plenty of chance to leave some egg on faces in here, and to go to Bullys point, would I prefer Hopper or a player 11 or 12 in this years draft, I'm taking Hopper.

The Lynch injury hurts. Our best and most important player, in the toughest and most important role. I blame Blair Hartley.

 

[bullus_hit]

You are clearly writing off our season after 5 rounds though. Its a long season, 18 games still to be played. You are making out like its a guaranteed top 5 pick which is far from guaranteed.

We'll be 6 points after 6 rounds, very unlikely to be featuring in September.

 

[mrposhman]

We'll be 6 points after 6 rounds, very unlikely to be featuring in September.

This season is shaping up to be super close. We are still in with a chance as I think the top 14 teams will be close so a smaller number of wins will get you into the top 8 this year IMO. We are certainly behind the 8 ball but hardly out of the season yet. Certainly not to be declaring that we would have had a top 5 pick.

 

[bullus_hit]

The Lynch injury hurts. Our best and most important player, in the toughest and most important role. I blame Blair Hartley.

Hartley isn't directly responsible for our lack of talls, that rests entirely on Clarke's shoulders but Clarke's hand has been savaged by 3 premium picks being used on players that typically can be found in the FA market or with the inevitable salary cap dumps which have become common place. Lynch is also 30, pegging your hopes on a player in his twilight years is clinging onto the past and also ignores the fact that seniors get niggles. If you were banking on 22 Lynch games then your planning was based on hope rather than sensible projections.

 

[Jason King]

No it's not. Anyway, I'm not blaming them, I'm acknowledging them. Lynch, Nank, Short, Graham, Soldo and the suspended Broad makes six senior players in their primes out of a side that is now out of balance with kids and pensioners. Plus the senior stop-gap Tarrant and the wonderkid Gibcus. Facts.

I don't know mate, I'm of the opinion that the rot is deeper than the injury list. None of those guys listed would make any difference to the result if I am being 100% honest. Its the way we play and the skillset we have.

Its shocking how slow and bad set of kicks we have. Even handballs often miss their targets and the fumbles, not to mention the brain fades and silly immature mistakes.

Its not all doom and gloom, there are some great signs from Cumbo, Sonz who look like they belong at a different club with the way they play. We need more of those guys.

It is only round 5 after all.

 

[spook]

I don't know mate, I'm of the opinion that the rot is deeper than the injury list. None of those guys listed would make any difference to the result if I am being 100% honest.

If Lynch doesn't go down we beat the Dogs and maybe Sydney.

 

[mrposhman]

I don't know mate, I'm of the opinion that the rot is deeper than the injury list. None of those guys listed would make any difference to the result if I am being 100% honest. Its the way we play and the skillset we have.

Its shocking how slow and bad set of kicks we have. Even handballs often miss their targets and the fumbles, not to mention the brain fades and silly immature mistakes.

Its not all doom and gloom, there are some great signs from Cumbo, Sonz who look like they belong at a different club with the way they play. We need more of those guys.

It is only round 5 after all.

Short would make a big impact on some of our ball use out of the back half, as would Broad. How many goals have we given away in the last 2 weeks from turnovers in our back half. Way, way too many and I'd hazard a guess we are probably 18th in the AFL for that stat (but I don't know where to find them). Iron out a lot of these, and we clear quite a few issues immediately. Its why I'd swap Clarke and HRS for this game. Hugos a liability in our back half, but running forward of the ball uses his strengths and I think we would see Clarkes strengths in that quarter back role. He has the speed to overlap run with Rioli and Bakes and he has the kicking skills to keep control of the footy.

 

[jb03]

If Lynch doesn't go down we beat the Dogs and maybe Sydney.

Hard to use that as excuse against Sydney. They had heaps missing.

 

[MD Jazz]

Hard to use that as excuse against Sydney. They had heaps missing.

Yeh, I'm shocked we lost. We failed to set the right tone from the start with our intensity. They wanted it more. They lost their CHF early and I was even more confident. They really only had a few players you would worry about. Warner/Gulden/Papley/Heeney. And they all won their positions. Convincingly.

We made so many dumb and ill disciplined errors, I didn't think it was possible to be worse than the previous week. I had hopes Miller would take his opportunity but he was insipid. Probably my biggest disappointment on the night.

I am hoping it's simply an abberation.

 

[Dont Argue]

I'm not 'writing them off', I always acknowledged their footballing credentials but the price we paid was off the charts considering we're currently sitting at 13th and on the cusp of coughing up a top 5 pick. Geelong passes us, so that's our current predicament. The pick in question is some sort of chance to land a forward, Curtin moving up the charts just one in the frame.

So you obviously knew we’d be sitting 13th after 4 rounds and basing your whole argument of over paying around that?
Because if we were sitting undefeated, with other players pulling their weight as they should be, you’d have no argument that the two players weren’t worth it on their current form. After 4 games in total for the club, both players couldn’t have done much more

 

[DavidSSS]

There's a few points that I've mentioned on this topic, if we're 16th instead of 13th and sitting on a top 5 pick, which scenario would you prefer? Taranto or no Taranto? Secondly, the guy who is near the top of the contested chart went for a couple of third round picks, not 2 firsts, that sums up perfectly the flaws in our approach. We didn't even get the better clearance player by the looks of things. Grundy was another who would have stiffened up the clearance numbers, next week has the potential to be brutal, Miller or Ryan in for a roasting.

Top 5 pick is a guarantee of . . . hmm . . . a young player with potential, could be good, could be crap.

The guy at the top of the contested charts will have no possessions per game in a couple of years, because he will be retired, same goes for Grundy (although I would have had a go for him, good ruck and Collingwood paying some of his salary, then again, it would have meant not getting one of Hopper or Taranto).

You cannot compare trades on the basis of their performance in the current year without also taking into account how many more years they will play for, it makes no sense.

You also cannot plan for both our first rucks being injured, well, you can't do that with list sizes nowadays. You recruit and trade for talent and need. At the end of 2022 when the trades were made, we clearly needed mids. We picked up 2 mids in their 20s who we know can perform, and have been performing.

The draft, even top 5 or top 10 picks, are no guarantee, this is why players who have a proven record at AFL level cost you more than 1 pick and sometimes high picks.

To answer the first question, from the perspective of when the trades took place, I would definitely take Taranto. Hindsight is a wonderful thing, especially hindsight at short duration. But, even now, I would take Taranto, and Hopper for that matter.

DS

 

[spook]

Hard to use that as excuse against Sydney. They had heaps missing.

I'm not talking about them, I'm talking about us.

 

[Jason King]

If Lynch doesn't go down we beat the Dogs and maybe Sydney.

Firm believer our problems are in the middle mostly. But backline a close second getting smashed and Forwards have no chance with the rubbish they get given.