Welcome to the Tiggers - Daniel Butler

[Number8]

Problem is with trading is that draft picks are very difficult commodities to deal with.

We need to rate butler and attach a required pick to him. Say we rate him Pick 25.

North have that pick and if north don’t want him then Carlton have to aquire that pick from north.

If Carlton can’t get that pick from north then they have to try to get pick 20 out of melbourne.

Spot on.

Our recent success masks the fact we were quite poor last year at extracting fair value for decent, hardened, AFL quality players.

Just because Carlton shows an interest in Butler, only looking at the picks that club currently has is lazy.

I repeat, the issue here is not what Butler is worth to Richmond, it's what he's worth to Carlton or any other suitor.

No more free hits for other clubs when it comes to obtaining players from Tigerland who will improve their list, thanks very much.

 

[eZyT]

When he runs in a straight line he has no side step. That’s where he is inferior to Bolton. He is a better tackler that Shai but that gap is closing . Bolton is superior over head as well.

I'd be seeking approval off the AFL to apply blinkers to Dan.

He has a sidestep, but he often just steps the wrong way.

Im not prepared to write Dan off yet.

Another 4 snags in the VFL prelim, and his hat is firmly back in the ring.

In me and The Old Man's regular Thursday afternoon side announcement text exchange ,

The Old Man named him in the starting line-up for the Q final!

 

[Harry]

Spot on.

Our recent success masks the fact we were quite poor last year at extracting fair value for decent, hardened, AFL quality players.

Just because Carlton shows an interest in Butler, only looking at the picks that club currently has is lazy.

I repeat, the issue here is not what Butler is worth to Richmond, it's what he's worth to Carlton or any other suitor.

No more free hits for other clubs when it comes to obtaining players from Tigerland who will improve their list, thanks very much.

You can't hold onto these fringe players or demand too much as you need to clear list and cap space. Lloyd conca miles go out, Lynch stack ross come in, and you then have to pay bolton baker etc more.

Unfortunately the likes of butler ellis and perhaps mcintosh need to make way this year for the same reason and you gotta sometimes take unders. Pick in the 30s is a good outcome for butler who imo is limited.

 

[tigerlove]

Im not prepared to write Dan off yet.
Another 4 snags in the VFL prelim, and his hat is firmly back in the ring.

He did kick four but was virtually sightless for half of the game. Reckon he's a good quality VFL player. Struck it lucky at the Tigers to win a premiership. History shows there are always players who fit into that category, He'd definitely be in the top 22 of some teams though and is not a bad depth player. Obviously he wants to see more AFL action though.

 

[Tigers of Old]

We are dealing with SoS here.. First rounder, take it or p### off.

 

[eZyT]

He did kick four but was virtually sightless for half of the game. Reckon he's a good quality VFL player. Struck it lucky at the Tigers to win a premiership. History shows there are always players who fit into that category, He'd definitely be in the top 22 of some teams though and is not a bad depth player. Obviously he wants to see more AFL action though.

I largely agree.

But to be fair, its very hard to stay involved for 4 quarters from a forward pocket.

 

[mrposhman]

Spot on.

Our recent success masks the fact we were quite poor last year at extracting fair value for decent, hardened, AFL quality players.

Just because Carlton shows an interest in Butler, only looking at the picks that club currently has is lazy.

I repeat, the issue here is not what Butler is worth to Richmond, it's what he's worth to Carlton or any other suitor.

No more free hits for other clubs when it comes to obtaining players from Tigerland who will improve their list, thanks very much.

The only one where we really didn't get fair value for was Lloyd.

Miles and Ellis collectively gets us Gold Coasts 3rd which currently is Pick 37. I know we gave up our Pick but that was the other end so maybe around Pick 55. Personally Miles only has value as a stop gap for any team hence why his currency largely was non-existent. Whilst useful for a period of time you can pick guys like this as DFA, I believe we only got that trade because we threw Corey Ellis in who has either been injured or just doesn't have the physicality to really be a good AFL player.

Conca, we would have got a 2nd rounder but we got Lynch instead. Lynch for Conca is a big win.

That leaves us with Lloyd who IMO was the one out of the group that I would have kept, I was comfortable letting the others go. I believe the only reason we ended up with pick 64 was due to his age.

Butler is young (22) but he is also limited. I think people are setting themselves up for a big disappointment if you are expecting an early 2nd. I'm expecting an early 3rd personally, if we get Pick 34 (end of 2nd round) then we will have done well.

The other thing you ignore, is that we are in a 1 team market here (from what we are aware of) and frankly Butler IS NOT their primary target. They will wait and wait and if they don't get him its not a massive issue, hence I'm surprised at your comments about lazy trading when only looking at picks that clubs have. Carlton will not spend lots of time hunting for a few pick upgrades here and there in order to get Butler, they simply have bigger fish to fry. It will be a "take this pick or don't" scenario. If we don't then we need to offer Butler a contract or delist him which would be a ridiculous position to put ourselves in if we are currently looking at the 2020 list without him in it.

You make it all sound very simple but miss some massive inputs into negotiations. We don't have a commodity that the other party can not do without.

 

[seven]

He did kick four but was virtually sightless for half of the game. Reckon he's a good quality VFL player. Struck it lucky at the Tigers to win a premiership. History shows there are always players who fit into that category, He'd definitely be in the top 22 of some teams though and is not a bad depth player. Obviously he wants to see more AFL action though.

Thats the thing about small forwards.
Do sweet nothing for 3Q's
pop up and kick 2-3 in 1Q and you're a hero.

 

[tigerlove]

I largely agree.

But to be fair, its very hard to stay involved for 4 quarters from a forward pocket.

Not sure he played the whole game forward pocket but if so a good quality AFL player wouldn't be wasted the whole time in a forward pocket. Therein lies the issue, his flexibility is limited even at VFL level. He did put up his hand when he needed to be counted but it is counteracted somewhat by his lack of influence for a high proportion of the game.

 

[jokershoppe]

DANS big problem the last 15 months is his complete lack of impact for just about all his last 10 games at afl level 2019 7 games at 9 touches 5gls 4 tackles per game
2017 23 games at 11 touches 30 goals 4 tackles per game.

His goals are down along with his 9 touches per game down, compare to baker who despite playing lately in the back half is going at 17 touches per games,same 4 tackles per game and 8 goals 10 points.

 

[tigertim]

We are dealing with SoS here.. First rounder, take it or p### off.

Maybe if we told SOS that Butler used to play for GWS he’d hand over a first rounder.

 

[year of the tiger]

Well Butler is on the plane and in the extended squad for a tiger final - that’s gotta be worth an extra 5 spots up the draft ladder you would have thought.

 

[Sintiger]

I'd be seeking approval off the AFL to apply blinkers to Dan.

He has a sidestep, but he often just steps the wrong way.

Im not prepared to write Dan off yet.

Another 4 snags in the VFL prelim, and his hat is firmly back in the ring.

In me and The Old Man's regular Thursday afternoon side announcement text exchange ,

The Old Man named him in the starting line-up for the Q final!

I wasn’t writing him off just comparing him to Bolton who is keeping him out of the team.
More limited player than Bolton, which is why he isn’t playing

 

[Bennnny]

He is asked to play a role and that doesn't involve him going in to get the ball.

He was recruited for his speed and he employed that when he got right in 2017. He got a jab when he got injured and played on, which affected him.

At his best he creates pressure and creates opportunity.

Will most likely go to carlton.

 

[craig]

We are dealing with SoS here.. First rounder, take it or p### off.

Ha Ha strong like.

 

[Bennnny]

Lets not fall into the trap of overvaluing our list, like Essendon did.
Do the moneyball thing. Thanks for your service, we've traded you to XXX, here's the contact details, good luck.

 

[year of the tiger]

I think I read this on another thread - ?? Don’t understand

 

[ToraToraTora]

Butler was very good in the VFL final last weekend. He'll definitely get a game in a weaker team & provide value.
The quality of our 'duds' on an extremely strong list, has risen significantly in recent years. They're now Premiership footballers.
He's worth a second rounder IMO.

You don't base the trade on what Butler is worth. You base it on how much they want him.

 

[123cups]

We’ve got Jack Higgins coming back later next year from emergency brain surgery.

After touring Carlton’s facilities, Dan Butler could require a similar recovery timeframe.

 

[Berwick boy]

Wow..haven’t times changed, had to go back 6 pages to find him.

Signed with Carlton today I’ve heard...true ?